Re: Bruins place Savard on LTIR with broken foot

by **SensFan71** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:53 pm

Dash wrote:Don't tell him that, he still thinks he made off with a winner. He has the fans brainwashed in believing that too.

You mean to tell us BB that two potential top 5 picks, and the possibility of a steal with a 2nd, wouldn't get you the equivalent of one Kessel somewhere?

I know drafting is never a definite (see Alexandre Daigle), but with a top 10 pick this year, I am sure Burke could find one player that is a Kessel type, then he would have retained 2 draft picks.

by **SpezDispenser** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:56 pm

SensFan71 wrote:
I know drafting is never a definite (see Alexandre Daigle), but with a top 10 pick this year, I am sure Burke could find one player that is a Kessel type, then he would have retained 2 draft picks.

A Kessel type who'd be ready in 2 or 3 years though. This way, Kessel's ready in November of this year - and then for the next 4 years. No farming required, the Bs did all of that. That's the cost of farming a quality player and letting him loose before he hits contract 2, it's heavy no matter how you slice it.

by Guest on Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:59 pm

Personally if you gave me the choice between having Kessel and Toronto's next 2 #1's and a #2. I would take the picks every time. This team is no where near competing despite Burke's delusions and his pressing will kill the future of a kid like Schenn.

But I hate the Leafs so press on Burkie, press on...

by **SpezDispenser** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:02 pm

MurderOnIce wrote:Personally if you gave me the choice between having Kessel and Toronto's next 2 #1's and a #2. I would take the picks every time. This team is no where near competing despite Burke's delusions and his pressing will kill the future of a kid like Schenn.

But I hate the Leafs so press on Burkie, press on...

Wilson is starting to hurt Schenn as well. He had him pinned to the bench for the entire third period of last game - and he was apparently quite distraught about it.

by spader on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:03 pm

MurderOnIce wrote:Personally if you gave me the choice between having Kessel and Toronto's next 2 #1's and a #2. I would take the picks every time. This team is no where near competing despite Burke's delusions and his pressing will kill the future of a kid like Schenn.

But I hate the Leafs so press on Burkie, press on...

That's why this is amazing to me. The Leafs are in hardcore rebuild mode, and they give up 3 big picks? How does that make any sense? The Penguins were terrible until they drafted down the middle with Crosby and Malkin. If they had traded those picks away for a Kessel-type player, who thinks they'd be the reigning champs right now?

by **SensFan71** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:10 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:
SensFan71 wrote:
I know drafting is never a definite (see Alexandre Daigle), but with a top 10 pick this year, I am sure Burke could find one player that is a Kessel type, then he would have retained 2 draft picks.

A Kessel type who'd be ready in 2 or 3 years though. This way, Kessel's ready in November of this year - and then for the next 4 years. No farming required, the Bs did all of that. That's the cost of farming a quality player and letting him loose before he hits contract 2, it's heavy no matter how you slice it.

well I hope no one is thinking that Kessel is going to come in and be a saviour to get the Leafs back to the promised land, the team isn't that good and a player ready in 2 to 3 years should be in their plans, they don't need immediate fixes, they need to start thinking mid to long term plan.

by **wprager** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:14 pm

I meant that, of course it could happen, but it would be ludicrous to expect it to happen. Sure, the hardships could galvanize the team, but to expect it to happen, and to happen with such force as to overcome the losing trend, is what I meant to be ludicrous. I wasn't actually commenting on anyone's opinion. Just that they are at #21 and odds are they will get worse with the recent losses of Lucic and Savard.

asq2 wrote:
wprager wrote:They are at 21 which is (barely) bottom-10. And they got there with Lucic and Savard still in the lineup. It's ludicrous to think that, losing two of their best players, they will suddenly turn around this (admittedly early-season) trend. So, although I can see how it can happen, at this point they are very much a bottom-10 team and there is little indication that that's going to change any time soon.

True, but I mean a bottom 10 team over-all, not a bottom-10 team through the first couple months of the season.

It's largely useless IMO to extrapolate results so far over a whole season. The Leafs, for example, could get some bounces, go on a three-game win streak, while the Sens could be overconfident and lose three in a row. All of a sudden the Leafs are only three points behind us.

Plus, losing a key player can cause other players to bond together and step up: see the Leafs of a few years ago when Sundin went down.

Boston is a team featuring a Jack Adams coach, a Vezina goaltender (and one of the best-ranked goalie prospects in the league), a Norris defenceman (and some good defensive depth in Wideman, Morris, Stuart, Ference and Hunwick) and a still respectable forward group.

So, you shouldn't necessarily think they will reverse the trend sans Savard, but I don't think it's ludicrous to say they can.

What I mean is, don't go pencilling Fowler and Hall into the B's 2010 line-up yet. At worst, it's probably Fowler and Hishon. And then Adam Larsson in 2011.

by asq2 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:29 pm

Yeah, that's fair.

Speaking of Rask, my God does he ever look like Frankenstein.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=4958

by shabbs on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:29 pm

wprager wrote:They are at 21 which is (barely) bottom-10. And they got there with Lucic and Savard still in the lineup. It's ludicrous to think that, losing two of their best players, they will suddenly turn around this (admittedly early-season) trend. So, although I can see how it can happen, at this point they are very much a bottom-10 team and there is little indication that that's going to change any time soon.

You can't seriously think the B's we've seen so far are the "real" B's? They're gonna get it together.

Losing their top line will hurt for sure - Kessel gone, Lucic and Savard out for a while. But they'll be back. For sure.

by asq2 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:30 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:
MurderOnIce wrote:Personally if you gave me the choice between having Kessel and Toronto's next 2 #1's and a #2. I would take the picks every time. This team is no where near competing despite Burke's delusions and his pressing will kill the future of a kid like Schenn.

But I hate the Leafs so press on Burkie, press on...

Wilson is starting to hurt Schenn as well. He had him pinned to the bench for the entire third period of last game - and he was apparently quite distraught about it.

He's been playing Schenn on his wrong side, too.

How to make your young players lose confidence 101.

But, we have to give him credit for what he did with Schenn last season.

by **SensFan71** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:37 pm

asq2 wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
MurderOnIce wrote:Personally if you gave me the choice between having Kessel and Toronto's next 2 #1's and a #2. I would take the picks every time. This team is no where near competing despite Burke's delusions and his pressing will kill the future of a kid like Schenn.

But I hate the Leafs so press on Burkie, press on...

Wilson is starting to hurt Schenn as well. He had him pinned to the bench for the entire third period of last game - and he was apparently quite distraught about it.

He's been playing Schenn on his wrong side, too.

How to make your young players lose confidence 101.

But, we have to give him credit for what he did with Schenn last season.

but if he goes and dismantles what positives he instilled in Schenn last year, he is definitely not doing that young man any good, another young player bound to be ruined by the Leafs.

by **wprager** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:45 pm

shabbs wrote:
wprager wrote:They are at 21 which is (barely) bottom-10. And they got there with Lucic and Savard still in the lineup. It's ludicrous to think that, losing two of their best players, they will suddenly turn around this (admittedly early-season) trend. So, although I can see how it can happen, at this point they are very much a bottom-10 team and there is little indication that that's going to change any time soon.

You can't seriously think the B's we've seen so far are the "real" B's? They're gonna get it together.

Losing their top line will hurt for sure - Kessel gone, Lucic and Savard out for a while. But they'll be back. For sure.

At this point in time they are bottom-10 team. The recent injuries have made them weaker (on paper, admittedly). We have no idea what's going to happen the rest of the season. What if the recent spate of injuries isn't a blip but a trend? What if Thomas or Chara are lost long-term? They lost a significant amount of scoring depth in Kessel and Kobasew, and last year they didn't make it out of the East. A loss of two top-nine players can be the difference of winning on most nights and being middle-of-the-pack. Middle-of-the-pack in this division means you don't make the playoffs. It *can* happen. Do I think it will happen? Of course not.

Oh, by the way, remember that I've never been entirely sold on Tim Thomas. He's got his big contract now and his SV% is below .900. Why? The defense is the same in front of him. Did something happen? Did the horseshoe finally fall out? Is he getting older? Did he relax after getting the big money?

Without Kessel's production and Tim Thomas's heroics, do the Bruins have what it takes to recover? We shall wait to find out.

by **SpezDispenser** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:48 pm

asq2 wrote:
He's been playing Schenn on his wrong side, too.

How to make your young players lose confidence 101.

But, we have to give him credit for what he did with Schenn last season.

For sure, he was great with Schenn last year, but he's really causing some issues now. I didn't realize he was playing him on his wrong side, that's devastating even for a vet.

by **SpezDispenser** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:49 pm

Prags - I've never been sold on Thomas OR Fleury. How funny is that now that Fleury's a Cup Champ that I'm still nowhere near sold on him.

by **wprager** on Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:52 pm

Fleury went #1 overall, so he must have had some pedigree. Thomas struggled as a backup for a long time before sticking around. Abd he still looks horribly out of position on many of his saves. For a goalie that has to do acrobatics in order to make a save, a little age is not going to be very kind.