Toronto Blue Jays Talk

Bramlet07 wrote:

PKC wrote:Can't believe it's gotten to the point in Toronto where they are talking about trading Halladay. Seriously, if they trade that guy, I don't know what the point of watching that team is anymore. Teams spend decades looking for an ace like him to build their whole pitching staff around him...and we're just moving him on.

If they don't get the best trade return for him in league history, where like sports media are flat out admitting that the team trading for him was fleeced to the point of embarrassment, I will start up a collection to have Ricciardi murdered in broad daylight.

But he is talking like he doesnt want to stay. They can't let him walk for nothing.

He wants to win that's why. And somehow, the Blue Jays seem to have THE WORST strength and conditioning coach in the world. Our whole goddamn rotation is on the IR...like, how can you compete in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox when all of your starting pitchers are injured?

No wonder the guy is fed up. And then they waste their money on Vernon Wells to anchor the middle of the lineup, but the guy barely has any pop in his bat. And then they expect Alex Rios to turn into Alex Rodriguez every year.

There's just a massive misuse of talent on this roster. The only positive outlook is that Hill and Lind are probably going to be perennial All-Stars and that this team is still close to .500 even though they have yet to field their real starting rotation.

I really hope they can keep him around...Halladay, McGowan, Marcum, Litsch, Romero, Cecil, Richmond, Janssen...they have some serious pitching talent to compete in this league as evidenced by the fact that despite every one was talking about their hitting game and offense early on in the season, no one was talking about the fact that the Jays were leading the league in team ERA.

You take Halladay out of that equation, yikes!

PKC wrote:

Bramlet07 wrote:

PKC wrote:Can't believe it's gotten to the point in Toronto where they are talking about trading Halladay. Seriously, if they trade that guy, I don't know what the point of watching that team is anymore. Teams spend decades looking for an ace like him to build their whole pitching staff around him...and we're just moving him on.

If they don't get the best trade return for him in league history, where like sports media are flat out admitting that the team trading for him was fleeced to the point of embarrassment, I will start up a collection to have Ricciardi murdered in broad daylight.

But he is talking like he doesnt want to stay. They can't let him walk for nothing.

He wants to win that's why. And somehow, the Blue Jays seem to have THE WORST strength and conditioning coach in the world. Our whole goddamn rotation is on the IR...like, how can you compete in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox when all of your starting pitchers are injured?

No wonder the guy is fed up. And then they waste their money on Vernon Wells to anchor the middle of the lineup, but the guy barely has any pop in his bat. And then they expect Alex Rios to turn into Alex Rodriguez every year.

There's just a massive misuse of talent on this roster. The only positive outlook is that Hill and Lind are probably going to be perennial All-Stars and that this team is still close to .500 even though they have yet to field their real starting rotation.

I really hope they can keep him around...Halladay, McGowan, Marcum, Litsch, Romero, Cecil, Richmond, Janssen...they have some serious pitching talent to compete in this league as evidenced by the fact that despite every one was talking about their hitting game and offense early on in the season, no one was talking about the fact that the Jays were leading the league in team ERA.

You take Halladay out of that equation, yikes!

But there not winning with Halladay anyways. Trade him for good young spects and try to be like the Rays in a couple years. Its not just Doc either, Rolen and Scutaros values will never be higher then they are now.

At least Halladay is getting wins while he's still a Jay...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2009/07/19/bluejays-docwins.html

A nice performance by Halladay.... The crowd gave him a standing O before and after the game... He even tip his cap beautiful as Halladay dosnt normally do that. Let's hope he sticks around.

caissie_1 wrote:A nice performance by Halladay.... The crowd gave him a standing O before and after the game... He even tip his cap beautiful as Halladay dosnt normally do that. Let's hope he sticks around.

It would be nice if he did, but it seems Jay's management is shopping him around.

Yes they are.... Opposing teams seam a little scared to pay the price he's worth... He would or should bring in one of the greatest prospects returns in a long time in MLB.... He is signed for next year so his value is alot greater...

Also if he bolts the team next year that team would get 2 first round picks as compensation so Halladay's value is true the ruff.... He will definetly bring a better return if traded then Sabathia did for the Indians last year.

Yeah, the return for Halladay should be HUGE. Best pitcher in the league. Hell yeah.

The best thing for Halladay and the Jays - is to trade him. He's been loyal - but he definitely deserve some playoff ball - and the jays need to retool. I am worried that it is JP pulling the trigger on this one though.

Hayden wrote:The best thing for Halladay and the Jays - is to trade him. He's been loyal - but he definitely deserve some playoff ball - and the jays need to retool. I am worried that it is JP pulling the trigger on this one though.

That is probably the worst thing in the world for the Blue Jays. If they trade Halladay, I don't give a Dung what they get for him, it'll set that team back a decade.

The onus should be on firing that retard Ricciardi and bringing in a GM who knows how to build a team and find the right pieces, not go thrift shopping in the bargain bin free agent sale and fill his team up with fringe major leaguers who were all having way above average years.

I say, fire Ricciardi, bring in a GM who can find a bat or two that can produce home runs and RBI in the middle of the order and let a healthy rotation and bullpen get a chance to shine.

With Halladay at the helm, guys like McGowan, Litsch, Romero, Janssen, Tallet and Marcum to fill out your rotation and bullpen, two, hopefully, perennial all-stars in Lind and Hill, and a lot of nice youth coming up the pipelines, the Jays just need to give it a chance. But they need to get rid of Ricciardi first. That guy doesn't know Dung about Dung I think.

There is just such bad karma right now. It's not the time to make a decision of the magnitude of trading Doc. I understand he wants to win, but when you have a guy like Romero out there, live, young arm, you can build around him and Doc.

McGowan's killer as well. Bad luck he got injured. I don't mind Litsch, but he's pretty hit or miss. Tallet has been okay.

Dung, if you trade Doc, you'll never get someone back who's be even half as good.

If ANYONE asks about Vernon Wells or Alex Rios, now's the time.

Another guy who shouldn't be moved is Rolen. Lights out. The guy's awesome.

Move Overbay while you can. Hill is awesome, Lind is awesome. The pieces are there, the manager is there...patience now. But it's JP we're talking about.

Do you think Halladay would re-sign with the Jays? If Halladay is going to go elsewhere after next season, why not trade him while you can get some good return instead of losing him for nothing?

shabbs wrote:Do you think Halladay would re-sign with the Jays? If Halladay is going to go elsewhere after next season, why not trade him while you can get some good return instead of losing him for nothing?

Maybe the Jays hired Muckler as a consultant?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

shabbs wrote:Do you think Halladay would re-sign with the Jays? If Halladay is going to go elsewhere after next season, why not trade him while you can get some good return instead of losing him for nothing?

Maybe the Jays hired Muckler as a consultant?

I'm not sure what's going on with Jays management... and I'm not sure why they were openly shopping Halladay as I think it just made things worse. Who knows what's going on.

shabbs wrote:Do you think Halladay would re-sign with the Jays? If Halladay is going to go elsewhere after next season, why not trade him while you can get some good return instead of losing him for nothing?

I would back a truck full of money to Halladay and say, 'we want you to stay, and we want to win'.

He's everything to the Jays IMO.

But, if he's going to leave the organization, then I would certainly think about it. Why can't this wait until next season? See where we are then?

yesterday's game shows you what Doc can do, dominated one of the best teams in the league, this team without him is nothing, but again, Ricciardi has a tough decision to make, not trade Halladay and risk losing him for nothing, or trade him now or even next year at trade deadline, risk not getting the same return talent wise, and being the ire of jays fans until the dawn of time?

SensFan71 wrote:yesterday's game shows you what Doc can do, dominated one of the best teams in the league, this team without him is nothing, but again, Ricciardi has a tough decision to make, not trade Halladay and risk losing him for nothing, or trade him now or even next year at trade deadline, risk not getting the same return talent wise, and being the ire of jays fans until the dawn of time?

Apparently part of the deal would be that young stud pitcher from Boston, so...that's a start.

Still totally opposed to trading Doc though.

not sure if I deal with any team in the AL East, unless the deal is just so overwhelming you have no choice but to say yes. I hear Philly may be in on it, and the player below may be one of the pieces included.

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=457918

If you want to be a winner, you don't trade the best pitcher in the majors, you build around him. JP Retardy should have been fired a LONG time ago. He shouldn't be empowered to make this important a decision for the organization when he is obviously on his way out.

This team is in trouble right now in the toughest division. Hopefully Jason Bay signs with the Jays when he becomes a UFA and they can get out from under Wells' contract. What a horrible mistake that turned out to be. And why would they just waive Ryan? Sure he was not playing up to his normal standard but they don't have anyone playing any better and they don't have a young arm they are looking to use in his place. Just throw away all that $$$? Wow! There are a lot of things that need fixing. Horrible managing all around, horrible.

MurderOnIce wrote:If you want to be a winner, you don't trade the best pitcher in the majors, you build around him. JP Retardy should have been fired a LONG time ago. He shouldn't be empowered to make this important a decision for the organization when he is obviously on his way out.

This team is in trouble right now in the toughest division. Hopefully Jason Bay signs with the Jays when he becomes a UFA and they can get out from under Wells' contract. What a horrible mistake that turned out to be. And why would they just waive Ryan? Sure he was not playing up to his normal standard but they don't have anyone playing any better and they don't have a young arm they are looking to use in his place. Just throw away all that $$$? Wow! There are a lot of things that need fixing. Horrible managing all around, horrible.

Ryan? They had young arms in the BP to cover for him, he was useless as tatas on a bull.

But yes, BUILD AROUND HALLADAY.

Damn, that's it to a T. Do you build around Alfredsson, or trade him? The Jays have all the young pieces in place. This year was seriously about learning what it takes. Add a couple of pieces in the off-season and make it so!!!

SpezDispenser wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:If you want to be a winner, you don't trade the best pitcher in the majors, you build around him. JP Retardy should have been fired a LONG time ago. He shouldn't be empowered to make this important a decision for the organization when he is obviously on his way out.

This team is in trouble right now in the toughest division. Hopefully Jason Bay signs with the Jays when he becomes a UFA and they can get out from under Wells' contract. What a horrible mistake that turned out to be. And why would they just waive Ryan? Sure he was not playing up to his normal standard but they don't have anyone playing any better and they don't have a young arm they are looking to use in his place. Just throw away all that $$$? Wow! There are a lot of things that need fixing. Horrible managing all around, horrible.

Ryan? They had young arms in the BP to cover for him, he was useless as tatas on a bull.

But yes, BUILD AROUND HALLADAY.

Damn, that's it to a T. Do you build around Alfredsson, or trade him? The Jays have all the young pieces in place. This year was seriously about learning what it takes. Add a couple of pieces in the off-season and make it so!!!

Sure Ryan had a poor year but he only came out for 4 save opportunities this year. Last year he was 32 of 36 with almost a K per inning. It is hard for a guy that is used to being the closer to move to a different role especially when the organization is in disarray. It is like going from being a gun slinger in the wild west to pointing a water gun in the clowns mouth hoping you beat the fat kid next to you... I am not saying he has been good or defending him as the best option but I am saying 'if you are paying him anyway, might as well use him'...

That's what I've been saying all along.

You take Halladay, you take Lind and Hill and you put the best Diddle talent you can find around them and you let those guys take your team to the promised land.

We should have a rotation next year of Halladay, McGowan, Romero, Marcum, Litsch/Cecil which if you ask me is a premier pitching staff in the majors.

Then you have Hill and Lind with potential keep-overs in Rolen and Scutaro. You need two power-hitters injected into your lineup, a utility first baseman with speed (stealing bases is a major weakness for this team) and potentially another right fielder if you trade Rios. Although to be honest, with regards to Rios, I just feel like he's being misused. I think this guy should be batting second or third in the order to maximize his contact hitting ability and the fact that he does have decent wheels.

As far as Wells is concerned, I think it's time the Jays tried to move him. Even though he is a phenomenal fielder (many times over gold glove winner), the money we pay him belongs to someone with major pop in their bat, something that Wells has just lost at random.

This guy should be a perennial 30 HR/100+ RBI hitter with elite defensive ability. Instead we get the defence from him and the occassional hit.

If the Jays can keep that rotation I mentioned above, have a batting lineup built around Hill, Lind, Rolen, Scutaro, Rios, Snider and Thigpen and inject two power hitters into the lineup, you are looking at a potential championship calibre team.

But they need to fire Ricciardi and find someone who can get those two power-hitters into the lineup.

would Bryan colangelo be interested in cloning himself and letting the clone run the Jays?

MurderOnIce wrote:
Sure Ryan had a poor year but he only came out for 4 save opportunities this year. Last year he was 32 of 36 with almost a K per inning. It is hard for a guy that is used to being the closer to move to a different role especially when the organization is in disarray. It is like going from being a gun slinger in the wild west to pointing a water gun in the clowns mouth hoping you beat the fat kid next to you... I am not saying he has been good or defending him as the best option but I am saying 'if you are paying him anyway, might as well use him'...

BJ Ryan had to be let go. He just didn't have major league "stuff" anymore. After his elbow surgery from last year, he lost close to 7 mph velocity off his fast ball. Which seems like it would be manageable until you realize his pre-surgery fast ball only touched close to the 90 mph mark.

When you have a closer tossing 82-83 mph fastballs, mixed in with an average complement of sinkers and curveballs, you're asking for trouble. Not to mention, given his throwing mechanics (the significant inverted L), he is extremely prone to shoulder and elbow injury now.

BJ had to be let go, he just wasn't useful anymore.

SensFan71 wrote:would Bryan colangelo be interested in cloning himself and letting the clone run the Jays?

Heh. He's not had much better success. I don't follow the Raptors much, but it seems he is retooling the team every damn offseason.

Zoolander wrote:

SensFan71 wrote:would Bryan colangelo be interested in cloning himself and letting the clone run the Jays?

Heh. He's not had much better success. I don't follow the Raptors much, but it seems he is retooling the team every damn offseason.

well the pundits are figuring he is going for it this year, I think he is basically trying to start the winning or he will be losing CB4, I am not a huge B-Ball fan either, but do pay attention while watching sports centre.

SensFan71 wrote:

Zoolander wrote:

SensFan71 wrote:would Bryan colangelo be interested in cloning himself and letting the clone run the Jays?

Heh. He's not had much better success. I don't follow the Raptors much, but it seems he is retooling the team every damn offseason.

well the pundits are figuring he is going for it this year, I think he is basically trying to start the winning or he will be losing CB4, I am not a huge B-Ball fan either, but do pay attention while watching sports centre.

Hasn't that been his plan for a couple of seasons now? They've brought in guys like Marion, O'Neal etc, and they don't seem to last. Too much turnover can't be good.

Zoolander wrote:

SensFan71 wrote:

Zoolander wrote:

SensFan71 wrote:would Bryan colangelo be interested in cloning himself and letting the clone run the Jays?

Heh. He's not had much better success. I don't follow the Raptors much, but it seems he is retooling the team every damn offseason.

well the pundits are figuring he is going for it this year, I think he is basically trying to start the winning or he will be losing CB4, I am not a huge B-Ball fan either, but do pay attention while watching sports centre.

Hasn't that been his plan for a couple of seasons now? They've brought in guys like Marion, O'Neal etc, and they don't seem to last. Too much turnover can't be good.

apparently they figure this round of signings is going to work, which I am skeptical, another superstar will leave the team for greener pastures (Bosh) and the team will stink it up again.

SensFan71 wrote:

Zoolander wrote:

SensFan71 wrote:

Zoolander wrote:

SensFan71 wrote:would Bryan colangelo be interested in cloning himself and letting the clone run the Jays?

Heh. He's not had much better success. I don't follow the Raptors much, but it seems he is retooling the team every damn offseason.

well the pundits are figuring he is going for it this year, I think he is basically trying to start the winning or he will be losing CB4, I am not a huge B-Ball fan either, but do pay attention while watching sports centre.

Hasn't that been his plan for a couple of seasons now? They've brought in guys like Marion, O'Neal etc, and they don't seem to last. Too much turnover can't be good.

apparently they figure this round of signings is going to work, which I am skeptical, another superstar will leave the team for greener pastures (Bosh) and the team will stink it up again.

Well, let's hope they trade him before he walks for nothing. We can also hope the return is better than the steaming pile of excrement the Raptors got for VC.

Zoolander wrote:Heh. He's not had much better success. I don't follow the Raptors much, but it seems he is retooling the team every damn offseason.

He did it right this time apparently. I don't follow B-ball, but people are excited.

I see Ricciardi has set a "loose" deadline of July 28th for a Halladay trade...

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=285282

Madness.

Unless the trade is totally unbelievable and sets the Jays up for years to come (ie: the perfect trade) don't trade him, sign him LONG term, open up the wallet and build around him.

This "perfect trade" would have to be something along the lines of the Expos/Indians trade way back in 2002.

shabbs wrote:I see Ricciardi has set a "loose" deadline of July 28th for a Halladay trade...

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=285282

Madness.

Unless the trade is totally unbelievable and sets the Jays up for years to come (ie: the perfect trade) don't trade him, sign him LONG term, open up the wallet and build around him.

This "perfect trade" would have to be something along the lines of the Expos/Indians trade way back in 2002.

Please build around him. The Jays are a young, talented team who ran into tremendous injuries (all to pitchers...not acceptable). Also, don't trade Rolen, he's my favourite Jay besides Halliday. Trade Rios for a bag of Dung, or Wells (ha ha).

Heh. Moving Wells and his monster contract ain't gonna be easy even without a cap... he's gotta start earning that moulah.

shabbs wrote:Heh. Moving Wells and his monster contract ain't gonna be easy even without a cap... he's gotta start earning that moulah.

I saw someone on TSN speculating the Jays would be moving just about everyone BUT Wells!

SeawaySensFan wrote:

shabbs wrote:Heh. Moving Wells and his monster contract ain't gonna be easy even without a cap... he's gotta start earning that moulah.

I saw someone on TSN speculating the Jays would be moving just about everyone BUT Wells!

Yeah, Wells is untradeable unfortunately. Too much money still owed, too long, too mediocre.

I heard an interview today with Ricciardi and he said that Roy has told the Jays he WILL test Free Agency.

This was news to me.

I was under the impression that Halladay was open to staying a Blue Jay.

Did I miss something?

shabbs wrote:I heard an interview today with Ricciardi and he said that Roy has told the Jays he WILL test Free Agency.

This was news to me.

I was under the impression that Halladay was open to staying a Blue Jay.

Did I miss something?

I heard the same. If he's going, I'd like to get something. That changes my tune a little.

SpezDispenser wrote:

shabbs wrote:I heard an interview today with Ricciardi and he said that Roy has told the Jays he WILL test Free Agency.

This was news to me.

I was under the impression that Halladay was open to staying a Blue Jay.

Did I miss something?

I heard the same. If he's going, I'd like to get something. That changes my tune a little.

I was quite surprised... but I agree, if he's told Jays management he's walking... well, trade him and get something.

Very puzzling though...

The interviewer just glossed over it and didn't question him...

SpezDispenser wrote:

Zoolander wrote:Heh. He's not had much better success. I don't follow the Raptors much, but it seems he is retooling the team every damn offseason.

He did it right this time apparently. I don't follow B-ball, but people are excited.

The trading away of O'Neill and Marion were both salary dumps. The signing of Turkoglu was solid though, he fits the raptors' style of play, which is more international. It's more difficult to defend as no other team in the NBA really plays it, so team's, in order to stop them need to adapt. They play a game where everyone can shoot, and they just distribute the ball really well. And with the emergence of Bargnani, the Raptors have two options down low who can also shoot the ball.

I barely watch basketball, but i just thoroughly impressed myself there. Although there is a chance that was all Dung.

Eklund, that's right Eklund from HB, has Halladay going to the Phillies as an E4.

It gets more laughable by the minute over there?

Bass Destruction wrote:The trading away of O'Neill and Marion were both salary dumps. The signing of Turkoglu was solid though, he fits the raptors' style of play, which is more international. It's more difficult to defend as no other team in the NBA really plays it, so team's, in order to stop them need to adapt. They play a game where everyone can shoot, and they just distribute the ball really well. And with the emergence of Bargnani, the Raptors have two options down low who can also shoot the ball.

I barely watch basketball, but i just thoroughly impressed myself there. Although there is a chance that was all Dung.

I never watch B-ball, but I figure it's got a cap, so it's gotta be pretty similar to the NHL. :^^^^: O'Neill didn't fit the mold properly, I have no idea why. Marion was good, but they sent out an offer sheet to some dude from the Pacers, so they had to clear that in case it went through (it did) because they had a deal with that Turkey guy on July 1st (it went through late).

They got better for sure. Not sure how much though, but some people seem excited.

Zoolander wrote:Eklund, that's right Eklund from HB, has Halladay going to the Phillies as an E4.

It gets more laughable by the minute over there?

You're kidding.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Zoolander wrote:Eklund, that's right Eklund from HB, has Halladay going to the Phillies as an E4.

It gets more laughable by the minute over there?

You're kidding.

He attributes this knowledge to "sources" too. Gold.

He's caught in his web of lies.