Re: Bryan Murray Vs Dany Heatley: Who Blinks First?

by PKC on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:03 am

davetherave wrote:A few things to bear in mind....

As far as the letter from Heatley requesting the trade goes, its potential impact depends on the wording of the no-trade clause and the contract itself.

When dealing with contracts, a number of them will contain a specific paragraph saying that the Parties agree to the Terms and Conditions of the Agreement as contained therein, and that no subsequent document may be construed as altering or voiding the contract, and that only unless the Parties specifically agree to do so.

This gets very, very complicated...and can have lawyers arguing for months.

And as far as Edmonton is concerned, they are not, as far as I know, obligated to take the deal if the terms of the deal are changed.

I hope the guy just smartens up enough to realize that maybe it's best to just move along.

by **wprager** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:04 am

PKC wrote:

This is going to set precedents of biblical proportions. Wasn't I the first one to say that by demanding a trade he violated the terms of his contract?

Nah, I'm sure it was N4L Smile

by **SpezDispenser** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:06 am

wprager wrote:
PKC wrote:

This is going to set precedents of biblical proportions. Wasn't I the first one to say that by demanding a trade he violated the terms of his contract?

Nah, I'm sure it was N4L

by **wprager** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:14 am

As much as I'd like for something like this to come down, I think a lot of you (except for DTR) are being a little unrealistic. Saying that the NMC is void just because he requested a trade is a bit of a stretch.

However, was Heatley's conduct detrimental to the club? Undoubtedly. All they have to do is point to the Pronger trade as exhibit A, and the Oilers' offer as exhbit B. Hextall's interview can be exhibit C.

by **SpezDispenser** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:26 am

What happens if Heatley cans his agents tomorrow and publicly apologizes?

Do things ever heal between the organization, the fans, the players and Heatley?

Just curious, because if Heatley stays, I think he fires Barry and McAlpine (and yes, I know how good they are as agents).

by **Snuh** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:47 am

SpezDispenser wrote:What happens if Heatley cans his agents tomorrow and publicly apologizes?

Do things ever heal between the organization, the fans, the players and Heatley?

Just curious, because if Heatley stays, I think he fires Barry and McAlpine (and yes, I know how good they are as agents).

I remember having the same thoughts regarding Yashin and Mark Gandler.

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:39 am

I have no idea on Sens Chirp's validity, he did break the Saprykin trade he says, that was a monster right there, but I did read this off his late night entry.

That said, the Sharks rumour from earlier is beginning to pick up some steam. Word is Dany Heatley would absolutely accept a trade to San Jose. Now its a matter of the Sharks putting together a good enough offer.

We can only freaking hope they put together a good offer and it doesn't involve Marleau and his salary, if you are going to do that, sheesh, might as well be Phaneuf for Heatley straight up.

by **wprager** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:55 am

Any trade with the Sharks would involve the same salary (or, likely, more) coming back. They are right up against the cap with players still to sign. I believe even league-minimum won't work for them. So forget about recouping the $4M by including Smith and the like.

Maybe we can swing a 3-way trade, possibly involving Edmonton. Something involving Smith going back to Edmonton, Heatley and Auld going to San Jose (they need a backup). The rest of the pieces will have towait until I've had a cup of coffee.

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:10 am

wprager wrote:Any trade with the Sharks would involve the same salary (or, likely, more) coming back. They are right up against the cap with players still to sign. I believe even league-minimum won't work for them. So forget about recouping the $4M by including Smith and the like.

Maybe we can swing a 3-way trade, possibly involving Edmonton. Something involving Smith going back to Edmonton, Heatley and Auld going to San Jose (they need a backup). The rest of the pieces will have towait until I've had a cup of coffee.

I am okay with Ryan Clowe's contract he just signed at 3.5. I agree the strategy of forgetting the 4M and just include more salary going back, Smith and Kelly might be the candidates there, or maybe Auld as you suggested. How about Cheechoo? Get me a cup of coffee while your at it :^^^^:

by jamvan on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:27 am

The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

by **Snuh** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:31 am

I have a feeling that Wilson will try to get a similar deal to what he had to give up for Thornton. I wouldn't mind taking Marleau back, but there would have to be something elae that sweetens the deal big time, like high picks and prospects.

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:37 am

jamvan wrote:The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

That is just the agents overvaluing their client, especially after how his actions have made him look, do they really think other teams will be lining up for him seeing how he has handled this situation (like a coward), it's amazing Edmonton still has interest if they do. I can say I have not heard the Switzerland thing, does his cap hit still count if he does that?

by **Snuh** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:47 am

[quote="SensFan71"]

jamvan wrote:The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

That's a joke, right? Or is this Yashin part deux?

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:56 am

[quote="Snuh"]

SensFan71 wrote:
jamvan wrote:The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

That's a joke, right? Or is this Yashin part deux?

this is way beyond Yashin, we should be burning Heatley effigies at SBP because of all this, I see his jersey's have all be marked down to 50% off in the city.

by davetherave on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:59 am

jamvan wrote:The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

Jamvan> there has been talk about if/where Heatley might play if not in Ottawa...Swiss League and KHL have been mentioned, but I have not seen any reliable source on this...so this may be just a supposition.

Where did you catch this info?

BTW the Swiss League has a transfer agreement with the NHL--the KHL does not.

So in principle, Heatley could go to Switzerland if the parties agreed...he could theoretically jump to the KHL without approval (like Radulov) but would be suspended.

At this point, IMHO it is, honestly, difficult to imagine what NHL team would want to take this messy problem off Bryan Murray's hands.

by **Snuh** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:06 am

[quote="SensFan71"]

Snuh wrote:
SensFan71 wrote:
jamvan wrote:The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

That's a joke, right? Or is this Yashin part deux?

this is way beyond Yashin, we should be burning Heatley effigies at SBP because of all this, I see his jersey's have all be marked down to 50% off in the city.

The only reason I ask is because Yashin fled to Switzerland when he was holding out. Not to play, but to more or less, escape from Ottawa.

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:13 am

[quote="Snuh"]

SensFan71 wrote:
Snuh wrote:
SensFan71 wrote:
jamvan wrote:The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

That's a joke, right? Or is this Yashin part deux?

this is way beyond Yashin, we should be burning Heatley effigies at SBP because of all this, I see his jersey's have all be marked down to 50% off in the city.

The only reason I ask is because Yashin fled to Switzerland when he was holding out. Not to play, but to more or less, escape from Ottawa.

very interesting, I did not remember that to be honest, so there are a few more similarities then if this is the case, good catch on that one. Heatley has his escape right now in Kelowna I believe, even though he will be returning shortly for Spezz's wedding, unless that has already happened.

by **wprager** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:45 am

jamvan wrote:The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

He should go play for Germany in February.

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:48 am

wprager wrote:
jamvan wrote:The Sharks are not at all interested in Dany Heatley, that's a fact.

I suppose now Murray will have to go out and get a list, signed, by teams not interested.

For the biggest agent in the NHL, JP Barry seem spretty f'ing dumb if you ask me. "My client wants options"; here they are JP Ottawa or Edmonton (option A and Option B); Take one and go f$$$ yourself.

Have you guys heard the latest that he might go play in Switzerland?

if he did, would love for one of Canada's big D-men line him up and crush him in the 2010 games. that would be partial retribution. talk about one player handcuffing a franchise.

He should go play for Germany in February.

by **wprager** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:55 am

Officially Yashin only practiced with the team, since he could not, officially, play. From an insurance p.o.v. it was still an injury risk, but he was already suspended so there was little more they could do to him. If he had suffered an injury he would have hurt himself most of all. Ottawa would have been saddled with the loss of a valuable trade asset. Milbury would probably still have a job.

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:04 am

wprager wrote:Officially Yashin only practiced with the team, since he could not, officially, play. From an insurance p.o.v. it was still an injury risk, but he was already suspended so there was little more they could do to him. If he had suffered an injury he would have hurt himself most of all. Ottawa would have been saddled with the loss of a valuable trade asset. Milbury would probably still have a job.

we need Milbury to be hired again, even if just for a couple days so we can dump that bum Heatley and get a better than expected return, right now, Smid, Cogliano and Fat Penner is probably as good as its going to get.

by PKC on Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:05 am

wprager wrote:

He should go play for Germany in February.

If only it were possible.

by Phoenix30 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:33 am

Dawg's Wife wrote:This may already have been mentioned so if it is then excuse this post. Dawg and I talked tonight and it seems there may be a good ole fashion fight brewing.

It will be positioned as Ottawa vs. Heatley, but it's really the NHL vs the NHLPA. You see there is now pressure for Ottawa to take legal action against Heatley and it doesn't sound like it's about the 4 million paid to him.

It seems that the NHL wants Ottawa to contest the wording of the contract where Heatley has the NMC. In Ottawa's (really the leagues) eyes, by asking for a trade he has made that clause null and void.

Murray asked Heatley to put the trade request in writing, and Heatley did just that, with an inserted statement that said he would provide a list of teams he wished to be traded to. He signed it and sent it over.

The problem is that according to Dawg that doesn't make it a binding contract. The only piece of paper with both sets of signatures on it is the original contract which has the NMC, but by asking to be moved the league contends that it's no longer valid. They believe that he doesn't have a right to state teams as it was him requesting the trade, and unlike some players who have a limited NTC where they can provide a list of teams, Heatley can't just say trade me but here's where.

The story gets legs when you consider his agents are now telling Danny to take the deal as the NHLPA isn't sure they will win a legal battle and a precedent will be set where any player with a NTC/NMC that asks for a trade will have it voided and the team then controlls the players location.

The NHLPA doesn't want this to go to court and as a result they want him to take the deal to Edmonton, where the NHL believes they can win and are trying to get Ottawa to push the matter.

It seems that Heatley may now accept the request to go to Edmonton, however Ottawa may be the one to say no. Further, Edmonton was told that the deal must be reworked and a better return is expected.

This is all conjecture right now as Dawg can't find anyone on either side who will confirm this. He's meeting with the upper management in the WC tomorrow and will try to get more info.

I was talking to an Edmonton fan the other day about this. It was discussed that this maybe something that the NHL may want to look into when the next CBA is being discussed. We were both under the impression that a NMC was to protect the player from being moved if a GM intiates the trade request. As we all know it was Heatley requested the trade, so Melynk is right you can't have your cake and it eat it too.

Any grievence filed will set precendences. Either money being moved as reported, goes against the current CBA or the issues around the NMC and how Heatleys camp has handled things.

by Hockeyhero22000 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:18 pm

i think any hopes of a trade with the kings are now dead since they got ryan smyth from the avs

by beerandsens on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:44 pm

You know what would suck? Being traded with Heatley and still having him as a teammate after all of this. I wonder who, if any, will be destined to that fate...

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:50 pm

beerandsens wrote:You know what would suck? Being traded with Heatley and still having him as a teammate after all of this. I wonder who, if any, will be destined to that fate...

possibly Jason Smith, but well, depending on his knee, he could just be retiring, I haven't heard anything about his status in a long time.

by TeamRenzo on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:58 pm

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i think any hopes of a trade with the kings are now dead since they got ryan smyth from the avs

Who did the Avs get back? Maybe we could ship Heatley to them

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:03 pm

TeamRenzo wrote:
Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i think any hopes of a trade with the kings are now dead since they got ryan smyth from the avs

Who did the Avs get back? Maybe we could ship Heatley to them

Kyle Quincey, Tom Preissing, and a 5th round pick. LA really fleeced Colorado on that one.

by **SpezDispenser** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:09 pm

No way he plays in Switerland next year. No chance.

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:10 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:No way he plays in Switerland next year. No chance.

if he doesn't accept a trade somewhere, I am still working out my unfortunate accident scenario. evil

by **Dash** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:25 pm

SensFan71 wrote:
TeamRenzo wrote:
Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i think any hopes of a trade with the kings are now dead since they got ryan smyth from the avs

Who did the Avs get back? Maybe we could ship Heatley to them

Kyle Quincey, Tom Preissing, and a 5th round pick. LA really fleeced Colorado on that one.

I'm not too sure about that. They both got rid of two contracts they didn't want and were pretty much unmovable (Smyth and Preissing). Plus Colorado got Quincey who had a really good year with LA.

Colorado gets rid of Smyth's awful contract, and allows them the cap room to maintain their young core in the future, plus gives them more flexibility for other moves if needed.

LA moves some of their defence, possibly allowing them to re-sign JJ, and likely bring up some of their young defenceman (Hickey/Tuebert).

by Hockeyhero22000 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:29 pm

TeamRenzo wrote:
Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i think any hopes of a trade with the kings are now dead since they got ryan smyth from the avs

Who did the Avs get back? Maybe we could ship Heatley to them

it does give the Avs almost 11 M in cap space but they still need 4 forwards

by **SensFan71** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:31 pm

Dash wrote:
SensFan71 wrote:
TeamRenzo wrote:
Hockeyhero22000 wrote:i think any hopes of a trade with the kings are now dead since they got ryan smyth from the avs

Who did the Avs get back? Maybe we could ship Heatley to them

Kyle Quincey, Tom Preissing, and a 5th round pick. LA really fleeced Colorado on that one.

I'm not too sure about that. They both got rid of two contracts they didn't want and were pretty much unmovable (Smyth and Preissing). Plus Colorado got Quincey who had a really good year with LA.

Colorado gets rid of Smyth's awful contract, and allows them the cap room to maintain their young core in the future, plus gives them more flexibility for other moves if needed.

LA moves some of their defence, possibly allowing them to re-sign JJ, and likely bring up some of their young defenceman (Hickey/Tuebert).

I suppose you could argue both sides of that trade for awhile, I hear some rumblings about JJ to Pittsburgh, and not from Ek either, I heard this a couple of days ago that he might want to go to Pittsburgh (who wouldn't mind you), now talking about that idiot of a rumour monger named Ek, he is predicting some huge shakeup for SJ and Toronto via trade on Monday, what an a$$hat.

by **Dash** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:46 pm

The Avs very well might sign Duchene and play him this season - and they'll obviously re-sign Sakic if he decides to return. There's talk they will sign Tanguay. What if they sign Sundin as well lol?

by asq2 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:48 pm

I think Duchene could use another year in Junior.

by **Dash** on Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:02 pm

He'd be alright in the NHL - he's as good as Stamkos or better. If Sakic plays, I think they will get Duchene up there playing with him, like Crosby and Mario.

Obviously, he'd be more effective in Brampton and they need him more than Colorado does, but if Colorado says so, that's where he'll be.

Brampton's going to be depleted next season - no Hodgson, no Grachev, no McCollum, likely no Kileen, as well as guys like Peluso, Day, and all the O.A's. Add Duche to that mix and you got a rebuild, but hard to do when you traded away your picks for a playoff push.

by davetherave on Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:54 pm

So with all the recent developments, what do you all think will happen with Heatley in the next 60 days?

by asq2 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:03 pm

Dash wrote:He'd be alright in the NHL - he's as good as Stamkos or better. If Sakic plays, I think they will get Duchene up there playing with him, like Crosby and Mario.

Obviously, he'd be more effective in Brampton and they need him more than Colorado does, but if Colorado says so, that's where he'll be.

Brampton's going to be depleted next season - no Hodgson, no Grachev, no McCollum, likely no Kileen, as well as guys like Peluso, Day, and all the O.A's. Add Duche to that mix and you got a rebuild, but hard to do when you traded away your picks for a playoff push.

Hmmm. I'm not sure.

by davetherave on Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:12 pm

Could Heatley become a Shark?

Some in San Jose seem to think so...more here:
http://www.gmhockey.com/san-jose-jaws-f35/what-s-next-for-the-sharks-t2176-45.htm#78873

by TeamRenzo on Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:12 am

davetherave wrote:Could Heatley become a Shark?

Some in San Jose seem to think so...more here:
[url=http://www.gmhockey.com/san-jose-jaws-f35/what-s-next-for-the-sharks-t2176-45.htm#78873

http://www.gmhockey.com/san-jose-jaws-f35/what-s-next-for-the-sharks-t2176-45.htm#78873[/quote[/url]]

Any updates

by **SensFan71** on Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:34 am

latest info from Sens Chirp, he is the only source I read anything about Heatley

Few different rumours seem to be making the rounds today when it comes to potential suitors for the disgruntled winger. The Oilers continue to be the most aggressive team in their pursuit and are apparently being joined by the San Jose Sharks and Colorado Avalanche. The Avs recently sent a big contract in Ryan Smyth packing and could be gearing up for a run at Heatley.

The good news for Senators fans and GM Bryan Murray is that the list seems to be growing rather than dwindling away.

I read a rumour earlier today that indicated Heatley had contacted the Oilers and said that now that he has received his $4 mil from the Senators he would consider a trade to the Oilers. Hoping to find out more on this possibility tomorrow.

by **SeawaySensFan** on Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:44 am

I find it a little silly that Heatley would be waiting to get the 4 million from Ottawa before accepting the deal to Edmonton.

Now that the draft is over, Colorado has even less to give and the Sharks have as little to give as they ever had. Until I see names and picks it's hard to get too enthusiastic about a potential deal.

by **Cap'n Clutch** on Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:47 am

Interesting. I'll believe it when I see it. At this point Heatley is seemingly handcuffing the Sens from making the best possible deal.

Heatley wants options? Murray's going to present Heatley with what HE feels is the best deal. He's not going to throw more on the table and cross his fingers that Heatley picks the best one.

What Should Bryan Murray Do About Dany Heatley?