GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Toronto Maple Leafs - 7:00pm ET - SAT. Feb 6, 2010

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

beedub wrote:I pegged this one as a Leafs victory, though not by much.

I think the two keys will be a) playing a lesser team might be bring out a touch of lethargy and laziness. As was pointed out earlier, no one can fault the Leaf's work ethic. b) JS Giguere, a huge step up over Toskala and Gustafsson. He's a real goaltender, with real pedigree.

I call TO winning by a goal.

a) I doubt it now that Karlsson is a definite no go. They know they'll need to work even harder with him out. It's the BoO and that brings out the best in both teams. It should be a close game. The streak is going to end so predicting losses from here on out is an easy way to look smart once it happens.

b) Elliott's play over the last nine games is light years ahead of the way Giggy has played this season.

c) Who's going to score for the Leafs? Henrik freakin' Sedin and Burrows couldn't do it last night.

I didn't pick TO to look smart. I picked TO as they have a legitimate chance of winning.

Since when did Karlsson become the dominant force on the blue line. He's good, sure, improving in leaps and bounds with each passing game, and a future star, absolutely, but he is yet to become a game-breaker.

When Elliot streaks, he's great! I had this argument with someone last year, when Auld when on a streak. I said it wouldn't last then, either.

Don't forget, Elliot is the same guy people were comparing to the turd in the bowl when they were losing.

Giguere may not be the flashiest goalie around, but he's consistently good when he plays a lot. Oh, yup, almost forgot, has won more cups than Elliot and Leclaire combined

Lets put it this way. Should the Leafs win it won't have anything to do with them being a better team, being better than their record or Giggy being "money". It will be just one of those things where a streak has to end.

And as far as the Cup comment is concerned - Andre Roy also has more cups. Should we pick him up?

beedub wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

beedub wrote:I pegged this one as a Leafs victory, though not by much.

I think the two keys will be a) playing a lesser team might be bring out a touch of lethargy and laziness. As was pointed out earlier, no one can fault the Leaf's work ethic. b) JS Giguere, a huge step up over Toskala and Gustafsson. He's a real goaltender, with real pedigree.

I call TO winning by a goal.

a) I doubt it now that Karlsson is a definite no go. They know they'll need to work even harder with him out. It's the BoO and that brings out the best in both teams. It should be a close game. The streak is going to end so predicting losses from here on out is an easy way to look smart once it happens.

b) Elliott's play over the last nine games is light years ahead of the way Giggy has played this season.

c) Who's going to score for the Leafs? Henrik freakin' Sedin and Burrows couldn't do it last night.

I didn't pick TO to look smart. I picked TO as they have a legitimate chance of winning.

Since when did Karlsson become the dominant force on the blue line. He's good, sure, improving in leaps and bounds with each passing game, and a future star, absolutely, but he is yet to become a game-breaker.

When Elliot streaks, he's great! I had this argument with someone last year, when Auld when on a streak. I said it wouldn't last then, either.

Don't forget, Elliot is the same guy people were comparing to the turd in the bowl when they were losing.

Giguere may not be the flashiest goalie around, but he's consistently good when he plays a lot. Oh, yup, almost forgot, has won more cups than Elliot and Leclaire combined

Ill argue that point in a heart beat. The two previous games to last night he set up Fisher for the OT winner and set up Alfi for the game winner. I would say he is absolutely a game breaker right now and last night until he was injured was EASILY the best player on the ice with Spezza, Alfi, both Sedins, Kessler, Fisher, and Kovy. Karlsson might not be a star right now but he is absolutely a game breaker and on the verge of being a star.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Lets put it this way. Should the Leafs win it won't have anything to do with them being a better team, being better than their record or Giggy being "money". It will be just one of those things where a streak has to end.

And as far as the Cup comment is concerned - Andre Roy also has more cups. Should we pick him up?

AS soon as he picks up a Conn Smythe, yup, grab him

beedub wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Lets put it this way. Should the Leafs win it won't have anything to do with them being a better team, being better than their record or Giggy being "money". It will be just one of those things where a streak has to end.

And as far as the Cup comment is concerned - Andre Roy also has more cups. Should we pick him up?

AS soon as he picks up a Conn Smythe, yup, grab him

We also have a 50 goal scorer on our roster making only 3 Million. Should we be excited?

beedub: Are you the one that voted TO wins by 2 or more goals? Is Giggy gonna score?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:beedub: Are you the one that voted TO wins by 2 or more goals? Is Giggy gonna score?

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:beedub: Are you the one that voted TO wins by 2 or more goals? Is Giggy gonna score?

It wasn't you that voted that was it? I thought you voted for Truculence-ness?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:beedub: Are you the one that voted TO wins by 2 or more goals? Is Giggy gonna score?

It wasn't you that voted that was it? I thought you voted for Truculence-ness?

Obviously.

Toronto being a better team than Ottawa ? i

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:beedub: Are you the one that voted TO wins by 2 or more goals? Is Giggy gonna score?

It wasn't you that voted that was it? I thought you voted for Truculence-ness?

Obviously.

Nope, I voted for TO wins by a goal in reg. Um, exactly as I put in my 1st post in this thread

Hoags wrote:Toronto being a better team than Ottawa ? i

Who said TO was better than Ottawa?. I said on paper, Toronto is a better team than their record suggested. That's all.

Kaberle - Great PMD for the price
Beauchemin - Did Neidermeyer and Pronger make him look better than he is?
Phaneuf - Started off his career great. Can he bounce back? I think so.
Schenn - Jury still out on this guy
Exelby - Truculent fringe NHLer
Komisarek - Truculent over paid 5/6 D man

My quick take on the Leafs D.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Kaberle - Great PMD for the price
Beauchemin - Did Neidermeyer and Pronger make him look better than he is?
Phaneuf - Started off his career great. Can he bounce back? I think so.
Schenn - Jury still out on this guy
Exelby - Truculent fringe NHLer
Komisarek - Truculent over paid 5/6 D man

My quick take on the Leafs D.

Can't argue with the truculence of their overpaid/fringe players.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Kaberle - Great PMD for the price
Beauchemin - Did Neidermeyer and Pronger make him look better than he is?
Phaneuf - Started off his career great. Can he bounce back? I think so.
Schenn - Jury still out on this guy
Exelby - Truculent fringe NHLer
Komisarek - Truculent over paid 5/6 D man

My quick take on the Leafs D.

Can't argue with the truculence of their overpaid/fringe players.

I guess I should have added overpaid to Exelby as well but meh. Thanks for the endorsement.

beedub wrote:

Hoags wrote:Toronto being a better team than Ottawa ? i

Who said TO was better than Ottawa?. I said on paper, Toronto is a better team than their record suggested. That's all.

You never mentioned paper. This is exactly what you said over in the Kovalchuck thread. I agree you didn't say TO was better than Ottawa but you did say the D corp was better than Ottawa. Again nothing about paper BTW.

"Toronto IS a better team than their record indicates, and don't be suprised to see them climb steadily in the next 20 games. Their defence corps is better than Ottawa's, even with Komisarek out (actually I think it improves with him out )"

I would never want Komisarek or Beauchemin on this team

Schenn is going to be a good 4th d-man, not the saviour he was hyped.

Ofcourse i would take Phaneuf, however his defensive weaknesses are going to be spotlighted in Toronto-the next McCabe. Only with a MUCH larger contract to worry about.

The d-man I would have liked from Toronto was White-solid all around d-man with some offensive capability-but gone.

Kaberle is a great d-man but the clock is ticking on his carreer.

Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

111519 wrote:Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

Absolutely not. While I had my doubts about Karlsson playing the NHL this season, he's been a pleasant surprise after being sent down to the AHL early in the season.

111519 wrote:Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

I would...Mattias Karlsson for Luke Schenn sounds about even to me.

PKC wrote:

111519 wrote:Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

I would...Mattias Karlsson for Luke Schenn sounds about even to me.

I bet people's opinion would be different if Schenn was having another season like he did last year. Sophomore slump, not unheard of, and Karlsson necessarily won't be exempt next year

beedub wrote:

PKC wrote:

111519 wrote:Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

I would...Mattias Karlsson for Luke Schenn sounds about even to me.

I bet people's opinion would be different if Schenn was having another season like he did last year. Sophomore slump, not unheard of, and Karlsson necessarily won't be exempt next year

That's fair, actually. And Luke Schenn is better than he looks at the moment. If Schenn doesn't pan out, it will have more to do with how he was handled than with what kind of player he is.

beedub wrote:

PKC wrote:

111519 wrote:Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

I would...Mattias Karlsson for Luke Schenn sounds about even to me.

I bet people's opinion would be different if Schenn was having another season like he did last year. Sophomore slump, not unheard of, and Karlsson necessarily won't be exempt next year

You guys are so brain-washed by sports media - you take their word like gospel. What kind of season did he have last year? A kid who got playing time on one of the last place teams in the league? Is that the kind of season he had?

With guys like Phaneuf, Komisarek, Exelby, Beauchemin, etc. on the roster, how is Schenn not redundant? Because they drafted him so high? Because TSN has a hard-on for everything Leafs despite their failings?

Get a clue man. Luke Schenn isn't the cornerstone defenseman teams build around, he's just another piece on their blueline - a celebrated role player.

Karlsson's a difference maker. Karlsson's making plays that win games. That's the difference.

I think teams should not draft defensemen in the top 5 if they don't have that offensive potential that can turn them into N1 Dmen.
I like Schenn but I think he is more a Chris Philips type than a Pronger.

would you be all that upset if Cowen turns into a Philips?

Kovalfie wrote:would you be all that upset if Cowen turns into a Philips?

Yes. His skating is already better than Philips', he can lead the rush from end to end, I don't know why we can't expect that when he's here.

Kovalfie wrote:would you be all that upset if Cowen turns into a Philips?

I wouldn't be upset per se, Phillips is one of the best positional defensemen in all of hockey. So having another one with the hulking size and meanstreak of Cowen could be what this club needs down the road.

However, I would be disappointed if Cowen brought no offensive upside with him. That would be a big let down.

marakh wrote:

Kovalfie wrote:would you be all that upset if Cowen turns into a Philips?

Yes. His skating is already better than Philips', he can lead the rush from end to end, I don't know why we can't expect that when he's here.

With Karlsson and Wiercioch's offensive upsides I wouldn't be devastatingly upset if Cowen turned into more of a shutdown defenceman. That being said I hope he turns into a Chara and not a Gill.

beedub wrote:

PKC wrote:

111519 wrote:Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

I would...Mattias Karlsson for Luke Schenn sounds about even to me.

I bet people's opinion would be different if Schenn was having another season like he did last year. Sophomore slump, not unheard of, and Karlsson necessarily won't be exempt next year

I don't get it....how was what Schenn had last year classified as "amazing" or great??? he was decent defensively, but I wouldn't classify him as the complete package. He was a rookie, and he's supposed to grow and learn, not be annointed the saviour (at the time). Listening to how TML ppl and fans feel about him, u'd have thought he was competing for a norris last year.

Michallica wrote:

beedub wrote:

PKC wrote:

111519 wrote:Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

I would...Mattias Karlsson for Luke Schenn sounds about even to me.

I bet people's opinion would be different if Schenn was having another season like he did last year. Sophomore slump, not unheard of, and Karlsson necessarily won't be exempt next year

I don't get it....how was what Schenn had last year classified as "amazing" or great??? he was decent defensively, but I wouldn't classify him as the complete package. He was a rookie, and he's supposed to grow and learn, not be annointed the saviour (at the time). Listening to how TML ppl and fans feel about him, u'd have thought he was competing for a norris last year.

Leaf fans need to realize that not ONE person can be their savior. Sundin wasn't, Kaberle wasn't, Kessell isn't, Schenn isn't, Burke isn't, Wilson isn't, Phaneuf won't be, and neither will Kadri. As a unit these tools (minus Sundin) can definitely help turn the franchise around, but they need to stop putting all of their hopes and aspirations in one individual player and start surrounding their good players with complimentary players, not Stepniaks, and Gigueres.

Kovalfie wrote:

marakh wrote:

Kovalfie wrote:would you be all that upset if Cowen turns into a Philips?

Yes. His skating is already better than Philips', he can lead the rush from end to end, I don't know why we can't expect that when he's here.

With Karlsson and Wiercioch's offensive upsides I wouldn't be devastatingly upset if Cowen turned into more of a shutdown defenceman. That being said I hope he turns into a Chara and not a Gill.

devastatingly upset is 2 big words, I wouldn't go that far. But why settle for a Chris Philips when you can get a Tyler Myers?

marakh wrote:

Kovalfie wrote:

marakh wrote:

Kovalfie wrote:would you be all that upset if Cowen turns into a Philips?

Yes. His skating is already better than Philips', he can lead the rush from end to end, I don't know why we can't expect that when he's here.

With Karlsson and Wiercioch's offensive upsides I wouldn't be devastatingly upset if Cowen turned into more of a shutdown defenceman. That being said I hope he turns into a Chara and not a Gill.

devastatingly upset is 2 big words, I wouldn't go that far. But why settle for a Chris Philips when you can get a Tyler Myers?

That's why I feel another year in Junior or AHL before the NHL is what he needs to improve his offensive side even more.

i wouldnt consider philips as awful offensively. He just isnt a PP guy. He has a nice breakout pass and has a way of getting his wrister to the net, although i would agree that he doesnt have a good slapshot and wont score 10+ goals.

Side-by-sides. Get your side-by-side here! (and in 1st post)

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

Michallica wrote:I may have missed something here, but how come Shabbs doesn't do the GDT anymore?

shabbs informed us that he's taking a hiatus from the site. He didn't say for how long and I didn't ask. I figured if he wanted us to know he would have said something.

My guess is OFA (Online Forum Anonymous). Maybe he can recommend a good rehab place for some of us when he gets back.

Kovalfie wrote:would you be all that upset if Cowen turns into a Philips?

No

I'm actually worried when phillips retires we won't have that big vetran d-man that can calm things down and consistently shut the other teams best players down. I think we have all got used to Phillips and don't realize how important he is-pair that with his leadership and we have a big hole.

No one ever says anything about Phillips cause he just does his job-and that is a compliment to him.

It would be great if Cowen can help with that.

Hagman doesn't belong as the Leafs' top goal-scorer any more.

It's hard not to cringe at the 60 powerplay goals allowed by the Leafs, especially when they've registered fewer penalty minutes than the Sens.

Also, as far as Cowen being Phillips 2.0 goes, I think his defensive game will be similar (he's bigger, granted, and a little more physical), but I'll be surprised if he doesn't put up better numbers. His shot is already much better than Phillips', IMO. And if he and Karlsson end up playing together, he's going to get a lot of opportunities to shoot the puck.

beedub wrote:

PKC wrote:

111519 wrote:Is there anyone who would trade Karlsson for Schenn?

Not a chance in Hell for me.

I would...Mattias Karlsson for Luke Schenn sounds about even to me.

I bet people's opinion would be different if Schenn was having another season like he did last year. Sophomore slump, not unheard of, and Karlsson necessarily won't be exempt next year

It wouldn't, but that's because the issue is somewhat divorced from their respective calibres. Schenn is redundant in Ottawa because of the Cowen draft pick. Our experiences under Hartsburg have shown how vital puck-movement and a quick transition is both to offence and to defence, and Karlsson's skill-set is vastly beyond anything else we have in the organization, with the exception of Wiercioch (who is still not at the same calibre).

Anyway, Schenn's actually turned it around the last month or so. He's a good player and he'll almost certainly wear the C at some point.

111519 wrote:Kaberle is a great d-man but the clock is ticking on his carreer.

Not really. He's 31 - and only 7 days older than Phillips. Not every defenceman follows the same career trajectory as Redden. Obviously Lidstrom is a career example but he's still chugging along at 39.

The issue with Kaberle is he's been pretty soft and weak in his own zone. But he's certainly not over the hill.

Leafs are up 3-1 on the New Look Devils

Dash wrote:Leafs are up 3-1 on the New Look Devils

It's Kovalchuk's fault I am sure.

Did he get the goal at least?

marakh wrote:I think teams should not draft defensemen in the top 5 if they don't have that offensive potential that can turn them into N1 Dmen.
I like Schenn but I think he is more a Chris Philips type than a Pronger.

Big-Rig went first overall.

Alright Ottawa, let's go for 12.

L'Ultima Sena: