GAME DAY: Pittsburgh Penguins @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 19th, 2009

great win for sens--they earned it and deserved the win

side comments--carkner is 6 times the size of cook


neil showed up but i think he regrets it b/c he took a beating ---maybe he should have fought colton orr instead-well i'll give him credit for not backing down--se diiference--goodard is trictly bussiness--no hot dogging like neil thats why i love it when he takes a beating

MurderOnIce wrote:Perhaps fans of other teams watch a Sportsnet broadcast with Dean Brown and think our play-by-play and colour guys are homers but last night was downright painful.

Late in the game Matt Cooke goes knee on knee with Donovan. It was borderline dirty. I haven't reviewed it eenough to determine if it was really dirty. And the comments go...

'Matt Cooke out there playing hard. That is what he has to do to play in this league. He wouldn't be in this league if he didn't play hard like that...' continues to talk about Cooke as a solid role player.

Note: Cooke does not answer the bell when invited to dance with Carkner.

Minutes later Neil hits their resident tough guy clean along the boards. Solid but clean. Goddard takes offence and the gloves are dropped. And the comments go...

'What is Neil doing running around like that in a 6-2 hockey game.'

OMG. Are you fiucking kidding me?! Go Diddle off somewhere. Jack asses!

Ya, I was a little disgruntled with those comments as well. Thing is, up to that point, I didn't mind the commentating at all. I guess it's supposed to be non-body contact once you get a three goal lead...and that rule only applies to the winning team.

What I wanna know is where's the Big Rig Appreciattion thread???

sidstu wrote:great win for sens--they earned it and deserved the win

side comments--carkner is 6 times the size of cook


neil showed up but i think he regrets it b/c he took a beating ---maybe he should have fought colton orr instead-well i'll give him credit for not backing down--se diiference--goodard is trictly bussiness--no hot dogging like neil thats why i love it when he takes a beating

Sidstu, I appreciate that you don't like Neil but Goddard has 4 inches on Neil. Neil hit him very clean. Neil answers the bell verytime no matter the opponent. Sure he is emotional and tries to generate momentum from his bouts at home but he does it win or lose. Sure he lost the decision but that recent cut he got from Lucic ensures that he opens easier. It looks like a worse loss than it was and they have been even over the years.

Certainly Neil is a far more respectable than Lapierre in Montreal. That douche runs around hitting from behind, f-aggitating and never backs it up. Most teams in the league would love to have Neil. Same can't be said for Lapierre.

MurderOnIce wrote:Perhaps fans of other teams watch a Sportsnet broadcast with Dean Brown and think our play-by-play and colour guys are homers but last night was downright painful.

Late in the game Matt Cooke goes knee on knee with Donovan. It was borderline dirty. I haven't reviewed it eenough to determine if it was really dirty. And the comments go...

'Matt Cooke out there playing hard. That is what he has to do to play in this league. He wouldn't be in this league if he didn't play hard like that...' continues to talk about Cooke as a solid role player.

Note: Cooke does not answer the bell when invited to dance with Carkner.

Minutes later Neil hits their resident tough guy clean along the boards. Solid but clean. Goddard takes offence and the gloves are dropped. And the comments go...

'What is Neil doing running around like that in a 6-2 hockey game.'

OMG. Are you fiucking kidding me?! Go Diddle off somewhere. Jack asses!

Those were especially brutal comments rivalled only by some of the most brutal officiating I've seen in a year filled with an array execrable refereeing to choose from.

I especially love when they call players by their horrible "nicknames". A real farce.

Did I mention that the officiating was complete and utter Dung?

I guess I am getting used to bad officiating. The standards have seemed to drop so low that it is like having one pizza joint in town. You still order the pizza you just have more beer when the quality is bad.

I dont usually complain about the officials, but last night was bad. That Phillips call was probably about as bad a call as I have seen all year and Cooke not getting at least 2 was unreal.

All in all, good effort by The Sens, they needed to win that one in the absolute worst way with Pitts D being so beat up. Buffalo seems to be cooling down and Ottawa could take the division lead if they can put a streak together.

My only right now is that road trip coming up, December will make or break the season and until it's over, I still think The Sens are in real tough... they seem to be coming together.

For The Sens to actually come out of December with a 500 record or better Spezza has to produce. I'm glad the guy is playing solid defensive hockey but Brian Lee, Matt Carkner, Chris Phillips, Chris Neil, so on, all have more goals then SPezza in 20 games and he doesnt have a point in 6. I knew he wouldnt be a PPG player without Heatley or if he played solid defensive hockey, but 7 million dollars for that? Chris Kelly is doing exactly what Spezza is doing right now for 2.1. He has to be better plain and simple for The Sens to be a playoff team, Fisher wont be carrying the team all year.

Big props to Kovalev for staying with the team and playing, IMO, the best game I've seen him play all year even if the production was not there. He's been solid lately and it actually seems it takes 15-20 games to get going... w/e, could be worth the wait.

Leclaire solid again.

Carkner, LOVED his game last night. His first pass is almost perfect, there was one bad give away late, but his game, IMO, is not only perfect as a 5, 6 D man, but he would fit on any team in the league. The guy isnt just a heavy weight and enforcer, he's a valuable player and a very solid D man capable of special teams play a lot of EV mins.

Campoli blew again though, Lee better not get the shaft because he has looked pretty good his last little bit. If he isnt producing and you dont notice him, that's a good thing.

Murder on Ice--I agree with you with your lapierre comment--these are the tpye of players Gainey likes not me--personally, I'd take neil over lapierre in a second but i'd tell no hot dogging after a fight

Was nice to see Hands of Stone Kelly get one particularly coming out of the box on a marginal call and having been on the wrong end of a blatant non-call earlier. Justice.

N4L wrote:I dont usually complain about the officials, but last night was bad. That Phillips call was probably about as bad a call as I have seen all year and Cooke not getting at least 2 was unreal.

All in all, good effort by The Sens, they needed to win that one in the absolute worst way with Pitts D being so beat up. Buffalo seems to be cooling down and Ottawa could take the division lead if they can put a streak together.

My only right now is that road trip coming up, December will make or break the season and until it's over, I still think The Sens are in real tough... they seem to be coming together.

For The Sens to actually come out of December with a 500 record or better Spezza has to produce. I'm glad the guy is playing solid defensive hockey but Brian Lee, Matt Carkner, Chris Phillips, Chris Neil, so on, all have more goals then SPezza in 20 games and he doesnt have a point in 6. I knew he wouldnt be a PPG player without Heatley or if he played solid defensive hockey, but 7 million dollars for that? Chris Kelly is doing exactly what Spezza is doing right now for 2.1. He has to be better plain and simple for The Sens to be a playoff team, Fisher wont be carrying the team all year.

Big props to Kovalev for staying with the team and playing, IMO, the best game I've seen him play all year even if the production was not there. He's been solid lately and it actually seems it takes 15-20 games to get going... w/e, could be worth the wait.

Leclaire solid again.

Carkner, LOVED his game last night. His first pass is almost perfect, there was one bad give away late, but his game, IMO, is not only perfect as a 5, 6 D man, but he would fit on any team in the league. The guy isnt just a heavy weight and enforcer, he's a valuable player and a very solid D man capable of special teams play a lot of EV mins.

Campoli blew again though, Lee better not get the shaft because he has looked pretty good his last little bit. If he isnt producing and you dont notice him, that's a good thing.

What happens if the Sens start pulling it together all the way through December? Does Murray try to make a move for a big-time defenseman? Are any even available?

SeawaySensFan wrote:Was nice to see Hands of Stone Kelly get one particularly coming out of the box on a marginal call and having been on the wrong end of a blatant non-call earlier. Justice.

Ottawa outplayed Pittsburgh thoroughly last night. Wasn't even close in my opinion. We need a big time effort like that from them on Saturday against Buffalo.

The funny thing is though, we technically haven't even gotten Spezza, Michalek and Kovalev going. And to some extent still not getting the production we expected out of Foligno, Cheechoo, Kuba, Regina, Shannon. It's been nice to have other role players step up and compete for us and produce big time goals and points, but we need our skill guys to start lighting the lamp more frequently.

Stay the course either way. Let this team go thorugh the ups and downs without fear of someone getting dealt or moved that isnt a potential UFA next season.

If they want to move a guy like Ruutu or Campoli for cap relief (not that they need it) or to open up a roster spot, then sure, I guess. Nothing major though, won or lose.

Always exceptions like a big time winger for SPezza to play with (Frolov next year perhaps), then maybe... but ya, just keep things the way they are right now.

Dan Hamhuis. Broken record, I know.

But it's pretty slim pickings. A lot of the bigger names are on playoff teams and the others are franchise cornerstones it seems.

PKC wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:Was nice to see Hands of Stone Kelly get one particularly coming out of the box on a marginal call and having been on the wrong end of a blatant non-call earlier. Justice.

Ottawa outplayed Pittsburgh thoroughly last night. Wasn't even close in my opinion. We need a big time effort like that from them on Saturday against Buffalo.

The funny thing is though, we technically haven't even gotten Spezza, Michalek and Kovalev going. And to some extent still not getting the production we expected out of Foligno, Cheechoo, Kuba, Regina, Shannon. It's been nice to have other role players step up and compete for us and produce big time goals and points, but we need our skill guys to start lighting the lamp more frequently.

Ya, Mike Fisher is absolutely carrying this team right now and is the number 1 center in Ottawa right now... also about the only center in Ottawa who has a shot at Team Canada. He doesnt even have the best two wingers on the team paying with him.

This isnt ment to rip Spezza, but he's getting paid 7 million per year and he only has 11 points in 19 games, 1 goal... He needs to do something offensivly to justify that salary. It's fine being patient with him trying to learn the game on the other side of the puck, but it's pushing it now.

N4L wrote:Stay the course either way. Let this team go thorugh the ups and downs without fear of someone getting dealt or moved that isnt a potential UFA next season.

If they want to move a guy like Ruutu or Campoli for cap relief (not that they need it) or to open up a roster spot, then sure, I guess. Nothing major though, won or lose.

Always exceptions like a big time winger for SPezza to play with (Frolov next year perhaps), then maybe... but ya, just keep things the way they are right now.

To be honest, I think this team is one top defenseman away from making some noise. Not only would that top defenseman eat up minutes, play every situation and help kick start the offense, but he'd also push the other defensemen in to their appropriate slots.

So, instead of having Chris Phillips up on the top pairing, him and Volchenkov could play the second pairing, and do what they do exceptionally well without having to worry about the pressure of producing offensively.

Not to mention it'll help our forwards get the puck with speed and attack opposing teams through the neutral zone and across their blueline.

It just feels like all the pieces are mostly in place, we're just missing that little extra to really make things move.

But, who that top defenseman is, and what the price would be are beyond me.

SeawaySensFan wrote:Dan Hamhuis. Broken record, I know.

But it's pretty slim pickings. A lot of the bigger names are on playoff teams and the others are franchise cornerstones it seems.

What about a guy like Kubina or Zidlicky?

You wont be getting a top D man that is signed beyond this year in season. Like I said, nothing to be done right now because patients will be key. If they want to bring in a Seabrooke, a Hamius, a Campbell, then w/e, but I dont see it being mid season.

sidstu wrote:Murder on Ice--I agree with you with your lapierre comment--these are the tpye of players Gainey likes not me--personally, I'd take neil over lapierre in a second but i'd tell no hot dogging after a fight

Fair enough, I think the post-fight celebrations are a polarizing thing. Either you hate them as a rule or you think that they are intended as momentum builders, successfully incite fan involvement and are good strategically for the home team. I am in the latter camp.

N4L wrote:Ya, Mike Fisher is absolutely carrying this team right now and is the number 1 center in Ottawa right now... also about the only center in Ottawa who has a shot at Team Canada. He doesnt even have the best two wingers on the team paying with him.

This isnt ment to rip Spezza, but he's getting paid 7 million per year and he only has 11 points in 19 games, 1 goal... He needs to do something offensivly to justify that salary. It's fine being patient with him trying to learn the game on the other side of the puck, but it's pushing it now.

Lloyd Sweaterman? Is that you?

Why does Spezza need to do something offensively? I thought we needed him to be a Selke-calibre player? lol

Besides, he's not playing with a finisher. Alfie likes to start and finish his own plays and Michalek will carry the puck and charge to the net to create his chances. Right now, Choochoo is the best option to get Spezza going.

PKC wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:Dan Hamhuis. Broken record, I know.

But it's pretty slim pickings. A lot of the bigger names are on playoff teams and the others are franchise cornerstones it seems.

What about a guy like Kubina or Zidlicky?

Zidlicky isnt a legit number 1 or 2, not even close. TOp 4 for sure, but I think he would help The Sens some. Kubina I have always liked but he has fit in like a glove in Atlanta... what a trade for Wadell though, robbed Burke blind.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:Ya, Mike Fisher is absolutely carrying this team right now and is the number 1 center in Ottawa right now... also about the only center in Ottawa who has a shot at Team Canada. He doesnt even have the best two wingers on the team paying with him.

This isnt ment to rip Spezza, but he's getting paid 7 million per year and he only has 11 points in 19 games, 1 goal... He needs to do something offensivly to justify that salary. It's fine being patient with him trying to learn the game on the other side of the puck, but it's pushing it now.

Lloyd Sweaterman? Is that you?

Why does Spezza need to do something offensively? I thought we needed him to be a Selke-calibre player? lol

Besides, he's not playing with a finisher. Alfie likes to start and finish his own plays and Michalek will carry the puck and charge to the net to create his chances. Right now, Choochoo is the best option to get Spezza going.

Spezza shouldnt need a top player to be producing at a better then .50 ppg. Mickalek an Alfi are producing and Spezza is not, even on the PP. He needs to get going in a big way.

N4L wrote:You wont be getting a top D man that is signed beyond this year in season. Like I said, nothing to be done right now because patients will be key. If they want to bring in a Seabrooke, a Hamius, a Campbell, then w/e, but I dont see it being mid season.

What about if Anaheim continues to struggle and remain near the bottom of the league? Eventually they are going to have to start thinking about getting some value for their UFAs.

Right now, they are sitting last in their own division, seven points behind the team ahead of them. Sure they have a game or two in hand on their division, but they stink right now.

Wonder what the asking price for a Scott Niedermayer would be.

Probably about the same as Pronger. 3 first round picks and a top 6 or top 4 D man.

PKC wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:Dan Hamhuis. Broken record, I know.

But it's pretty slim pickings. A lot of the bigger names are on playoff teams and the others are franchise cornerstones it seems.

What about a guy like Kubina or Zidlicky?

I considered them and Aucoin but they may be in the playoffs? Carolina doesn't have much. I don't see Niedermeyer getting dealt. Maybe a cheap team will want to unload salary. Ballard is a little expensive, though, and the term is suspect.

The thing is, Nashville is cheap AND they won't make the playoffs AND Hamhuis is a pending UFA.

N4L wrote:Spezza shouldnt need a top player to be producing at a better then .50 ppg. Mickalek an Alfi are producing and Spezza is not, even on the PP. He needs to get going in a big way.

I said Choochoo, no mention of a top player. And the fact that Michalek and The Alfie are producing without Spezza illustrates my original point that he needs a finisher.

Meh, they tried Cheechoo up there and nothing came of it. It's wasnt for short spurts of time either, they had a decent amount of time together.

Either way Spezza should have more then 1 goal in 20 games and Brian Lee and Matt Carkner should not have more goals then him 20 games in either.

N4L wrote:Meh, they tried Cheechoo up there and nothing came of it. It's wasnt for short spurts of time either, they had a decent amount of time together.

Either way Spezza should have more then 1 goal in 20 games and Brian Lee and Matt Carkner should not have more goals then him 20 games in either.

Really? Because it seems to me that Cheechoo has bounced around the lineup quite a bit?

I think it would be in the teams best interest to do what they can to get a 7 million dollar player going and not just hope he stratightens out. They had no problems moving heaven and earth to try to get other players going in the past. Why not now?

What else can you do? He's playing with argueably the two most complete players on the team... If he needs a 7.5 million dollar player to prouduce then he is in trouble from that stand point. Again, love his commitment to defense and I dont think he is playing poorly or costing his team but he needs to produce more then he is. pointless in 6 games is pretty close to unacceptable, the one goal is secondary. I think he does come around but this is still raising serious questions.

I'm wondering if they should just tell Spezza to abandon any inkling of defensive play and just go all out.

While I love the fact that his 2-way game is improving... it's come at the high price of much fewer goals.

And he's switching sticks... so all of this together is making for a big transition.

I dunno.

I'm laughing at myself for even saying this... we crap on Spezza because he's a defensive liability... now he's addressing that issue and we crap on him for not scoring goals...

Methinks we can't have our cake and eat it too... at this point in time...

shabbs wrote:I'm wondering if they should just tell Spezza to abandon any inkling of defensive play and just go all out.

While I love the fact that his 2-way game is improving... it's come at the high price of much fewer goals.

And he's switching sticks... so all of this together is making for a big transition.

I dunno.

I'm laughing at myself for even saying this... we crap on Spezza because he's a defensive liability... now he's addressing that issue and we crap on him for not scoring goals...

Methinks we can't have our cake and eat it too... at this point in time...

I dont think you can rip on Spezza for playing defense and he should keep this up for the rest of his career, that being said, if he cant do both... then I dont know. I think he will turn it around honestly, but man, he has to play like something resembling a 4 or 5 million dollar player, not Chris Kelly... that's where he is right now and even then I would say Kelly is getting more scoring chances in general, forget about the difference in amount of ice time.

N4L wrote:What else can you do? He's playing with argueably the two most complete players on the team... If he needs a 7.5 million dollar player to prouduce then he is in trouble from that stand point. Again, love his commitment to defense and I dont think he is playing poorly or costing his team but he needs to produce more then he is. pointless in 6 games is pretty close to unacceptable, the one goal is secondary. I think he does come around but this is still raising serious questions.

And I'm saying that playing with "complete" players is hurting his production. And Choochoo is not a 7.5 million dollar player either.

Yeah, we've been wanting this out of Spezza for years, and now that he has made this improvement to his game, we want him to go back to the reckless abandon offense? Just like Mike Fisher spent years as a 20 goal scorer known for his defense, he is now looking at 36 goals and still being considered a solid shutdown guy. It takes time to balance both aspects of the game, and maybe it will be another year or two but Spezza might just become a Datysuk in this league.

Michalek is also blossoming in Ottawa. He's had really good numbers in SJ, but he's been given the reigns for offense and as well is looked upon for killing penalties.

If every player in Ottawqa could eb as effective aty both ends, then there's no reason why this team couldn't win.

I know it is likely a fluke, but look at Phillips last night - though I didn't think he was that impressive defensively.

Who else is there to play with? Cheechoo, ya, I can see that... but Ruutu, Neil, Winchester, Donovan, Shannon? None of those guys are going to help Spezza all that much, if at all... Cheechoo might get a bit more out of him, but not much.

Spezza really has to find a balance and learn to be effective everywhere on the ice. I think he has lots of time right now but this goes to show you that he is not a 7 million dollar player and a border line, 1st line center.

If Fisher wasnt producing like he is right now everyone might be questioning Spezza a little more then we are. He really needs to find that balance.

Maybe it's time for Clouston to give Kovy and Spezza a real chance together... once Kovy returns from Russia that is.

I think Spezza will get it going. I don't mind going through this "transistion" if his game ends up being better all around and it helps the team. I don't write the cheques so I just want wins.

shabbs wrote:Maybe it's time for Clouston to give Kovy and Spezza a real chance together... once Kovy returns from Russia that is.

I think Spezza will get it going. I don't mind going through this "transistion" if his game ends up being better all around and it helps the team. I don't write the cheques so I just want wins.

Kovy and Fisher have it going on right now, tooooons of chemistry. Those two are clicking big time.

Spezza has Alfi and Michalek right there with him, I dont see a need to change anything in that aspect. I dont see Spezza going much longer without decent production but it's starting to get a little worrysome, that's all.

Point to all this was Spezza needs to be this teams best player for The Sens to have a shot at the playoffs because Fisher will not end up with 80 plus points.

shabbs wrote:Maybe it's time for Clouston to give Kovy and Spezza a real chance together... once Kovy returns from Russia that is.

I think Spezza will get it going. I don't mind going through this "transistion" if his game ends up being better all around and it helps the team. I don't write the cheques so I just want wins.

Right now, the so-called second line is helping us win. You can easily tinker with all 3 of the others and in the case of the first, you MUST tinker. Never mind Spezza, that line has to work as a line. It's pretty important if you ask me.

Yeah, the risk of mixing it up too much up is high, and the Fish-Kovy thing is working well.

Maybe Spezza just needs a breakout game to get his mojo going... Buffalo on Sat night would be nice... light 'em up and get it going on.

Spezza usually lights up Buffalo so that could very well be in the cards.

N4L wrote:Spezza usually lights up Buffalo so that could very well be in the cards.

Let us pray.

*prays*

I think Yzerman is our dream comparison for Spezza. Remember when he came into the league he was a top ten scorer. I think he scored something like 142 pts (didn't check but someone can correct that). Anyway, he committed himself to improving his defensive game and became a cup winning leader. He didn't make the transition overnight and his offense hurt through the transition. (Probably his defense took time as well).

The well rounded player who came out the other end is the guy you can build your team around. (Alfie will retire sometime) So we can either be patient and allow some maturation here or we can abandon the effort to develope him into a well rounded player and let him go tag points as his most important/only contribution.

Great game last night....I wasn't expecting the victory, but to get it in such a fashion is a bonus. Hopefully the sens can see the light at the end of the tunnel and just keep moving forward.

I thought everyone played well (or not harmful) hockey yesterday, so I'm gonna pass today on the 'Lets dump on ______ for underachieving".

Onto the next game: Looks like Sens will be without kovy and donovan for a few games, so both Regin and Shannon draw in then...I just hope clouston doesn't put shannon with fish and foligno. Rather I'm hoping for this:

Michalek-Spezza-Cheechoo
Foligno-Fisher-Alfie
Regin-Winchester-Neil
Ruutu-Kelly-Shannon

MurderOnIce wrote:I think Yzerman is our dream comparison for Spezza. Remember when he came into the league he was a top ten scorer. I think he scored something like 142 pts (didn't check but someone can correct that). Anyway, he committed himself to improving his defensive game and became a cup winning leader. He didn't make the transition overnight and his offense hurt through the transition. (Probably his defense took time as well).

The well rounded player who came out the other end is the guy you can build your team around. (Alfie will retire sometime) So we can either be patient and allow some maturation here or we can abandon the effort to develope him into a well rounded player and let him go tag points as his most important/only contribution.

I'm curious, what was Yzerman's salary during those times relative to the team?

Michallica wrote:Great game last night....I wasn't expecting the victory, but to get it in such a fashion is a bonus. Hopefully the sens can see the light at the end of the tunnel and just keep moving forward.

I thought everyone played well (or not harmful) hockey yesterday, so I'm gonna pass today on the 'Lets dump on ______ for underachieving".

Onto the next game: Looks like Sens will be without kovy and donovan for a few games, so both Regin and Shannon draw in then...I just hope clouston doesn't put shannon with fish and foligno. Rather I'm hoping for this:

Michalek-Spezza-Cheechoo
Foligno-Fisher-Alfie
Regin-Winchester-Neil
Ruutu-Kelly-Shannon

It was definitely a great game. I thought we were dead with the way it started but then they really turned it on. I'm quite pleased with the effort, and if I'm not mistaken, we find ourselves back in the race this morning.

Good lines, hopefully that's what CC will go with. We shall see.