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GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

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GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:03 pm



GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009



"Didn't we just play these guys... twice...?"

The Ottawa Senators (6-4-2, 14 points, 2nd in the North East) welcome back the Tampa Bay Lightning (5-4-4, 14 points, 2nd in the South East) in what seems like the zillionth time we've played them this season. What is up with playing Tampa three times in the first thirteen games this season? Who made this schedule? The Bolts spoiled Kessel's return to the NHL with an OT win over the Leafs on Tuesday night at the ACC. The Sens are sporting some walking wounded with Spezza and Volchenkov still out of the line up and the flu continues to run rampant. Rumours swirl that Spezza may be out longer than anticipated while reports suggest he may be in the line up on Thursday. The good news was that Volchenkov won't be out as long as originally thought. Two losses in a row by the Sens have fans wondering what happened to all the promise early in the season. The Sens need to come up with a convincing win and get back on track. Their PP continues to struggle mightily but is slowly improving. It would be nice to see the Se

Note: Thursday night at Scotiabank Place is Canadian Forces Appreciation Night.

Game Coverage:
- TV: TSN2 (HD), SUN (HD)
- Radio: Team 1200
- Web: http://www.atdhe.net/

Game Day Updates:
Clouston: Donovan and Winchester not playing. Leclaire starts in goal. Lines at Sens' skate on Game Day: Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson; Kovalev-Fisher-Shannon; Foligno-Regin-Neil; Ruutu-Kelly-Cheechoo; Donovan-Winchester.
Niittymaki gets the start in net for the Bolts.

Projected Lines:
Sens: http://www.dailyfaceoff.com/team-lineups/ottawa-senators-team-lineup
Bolts: http://www.dailyfaceoff.com/team-lineups/tampa-bay-lightning-team-lineup
Starting goalies: http://www.dailyfaceoff.com/6862/starting-goalies-thursday-november-5-2009


TSN's Ice Chips:

Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=11009

Ottawa Senators:

Jason Spezza returned to practice on Wednesday after missing the last week with a sore back. He will test it again on Thursday and determine whether he can play or not. - TSN

Mike Fisher sat out practice with bumps and bruises and is questionable for Thursday's game against Tampa Bay. D Anton Volchenkov (elbow) is still out for about two weeks. - TSN

Wednesday's Practice Lines

Forwards:
Michalek - Spezza - Alfredsson
Kovalev - Regin - Shannon
Cheechoo - Foligno - Neil
Ruutu - Kelly - Donovan

Defencemen:
Phillips - Lee
Campoli - Kuba
Picard - Carkner

Goaltenders:
Leclaire
Elliott

Injuries:
Winchester (knee, questionable for Thursday's game); Volchenkov (dislocated right elbow, on injured reserve); Jason Spezza (upper body, expected to miss Thursday's game)

Tampa Bay Lightning:

The team put forward Ryan Craig on re-entry waivers. - TSN

Vincent Lecavalier played a season low 16:06 last night in a 6-2 loss to the Flyers. He spent a good chunk of the game relegated to the 4th line. He was -3 and is -8 on the season. Head coach Rick Tocchet has been on him of late and insists Vinny has to play a two-way game. "It's not two guys and the Tbay Lightning," Tocchet told the Tampa Bay Tribune. - TSN

Projected Lines vs. Ottawa Senators

Forwards:
Malone - Stamkos - St Louis
Wright - Halpern - Tanguay
Veilleux - Lecavalier - Miller
Fedoruk - Konopka - Downie

Defencemen:
Ohlund - Hedman
Foster - Walker
Hale - Meszaros

Goaltenders:
Nittymaki
Smith

Injuries:
Paul Ranger (personal, out indefinitely)

Game Day Previews:

OttawaSenators.com Game Day Preview:

Source: http://senators.nhl.com/club/preview.htm?id=2009020211

NHL.com Game Day Preview:

Source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/preview.htm?id=2009020211

Sportsnet.ca Game Day Preview:

Source: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/scores/20091105/TB@Ott/story

ESPN Game Day Preview:

Source: http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/preview?gameId=291105014

ESPN Stats Comparison:



Media Links:
- Clouston post practice presser from Wed. Nov. 4th: http://senators.nhl.com/v2/ext/Audio/091104_Clouston.mp3
- Clouston post practice presser from Tue. Nov. 3rd: http://senators.nhl.com/v2/ext/Audio/091103_Clouston.mp3
- Sens Prospects Updats (PDF): http://senators.nhl.com/v2/ext/Prospects_updates/Prospect_Update-091102.pdf
- SensTV On-line: http://senators.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp
- Official Twitter of the Ottawa Senators: http://twitter.com/NHL_Sens

Ottawa's Last Game: vs Atlanta Thrashers
- Date: Sat. Oct. 31st, 2009
- Score: Thrashers 3 - Senators 1
- Recap: http://senators.nhl.com/club/recap.htm?id=2009020182
- Boxscore: http://senators.nhl.com/club/boxscore.htm?id=2009020182
- Game Summary: http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20092010/GS020182.HTM
- Video: http://senators.nhl.com/club/gamevideo.htm?id=2009020182

Noteable Senators articles

Ottawa Sun:
Waste of time for Melnyk?: http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/2009/11/03/11625761.html

Ottawa Sun:
Fisher deserves look for Olympics: http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/columnists/bruce_garrioch/2009/11/03/11626151.html

Ottawa Citizen:
Melnyk wants his money back: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/ottawa-senators/Melnyk+wants+money+back/2180934/story.html

Ottawa Citizen:
Ruutu's a metal fan: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/ottawa-senators/Metal+Ruutu+leads+fellow+Senators+Metallica+concert/2180943/story.html

Ottawa Citizen:
Volchenkov could be back soon: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/ottawa-senators/Volchenkov+could+back+Senators+lineup+soon/2172911/story.html

OttawaSenators.com:
Spezza hopeful for return: http://senators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=504768

OttawaSenators.com:
A first for me: http://senators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=504654

OttawaSenators.com:
A November to remember?: http://senators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=504513

Noteable Lightning articles:

TampaBayLightning.com
Niittymaki making most of his opportunities: http://lightning.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=504674

TampaBayLightning.com
Start of important road trip: http://lightning.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=504494

Spread the word!

Follow GMHockey on Twitter: http://twitter.com/gmhockey

GO SENS GO!!!


Last edited by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:39 pm; edited 6 times in total

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by asq2 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:18 pm

Swell GDT. I'm getting antsy with so little Sens hockey, but I guess it's for the best with our best forward and defenceman (IMO) out, respectively.

What's wrong with Fisher?

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:28 pm

Good work as usual! Ahhhhh!

We had better start scoring again...now. Ahhhhh!

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Hoags on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:34 pm

Anyone else sick of Tampa Bay by now ?

I wonder if this one will be a blowout like the past 2 games.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:52 pm

asq2 wrote:Swell GDT. I'm getting antsy with so little Sens hockey, but I guess it's for the best with our best forward and defenceman (IMO) out, respectively.

What's wrong with Fisher?

Not sure what's up with Fisher. I don't recall Clouston mentioning it in his presser... probably just bumps and bruises.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by asq2 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:35 pm

Lecavalier is on the third line?

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:52 pm

asq2 wrote:Lecavalier is on the third line?

Yep.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:40 am

shabbs wrote:
asq2 wrote:Swell GDT. I'm getting antsy with so little Sens hockey, but I guess it's for the best with our best forward and defenceman (IMO) out, respectively.

What's wrong with Fisher?

Not sure what's up with Fisher. I don't recall Clouston mentioning it in his presser... probably just bumps and bruises.


Clouston said yesterday in the presser that it was bumps and bruises but was non-committel about whether he'd be in the lineup or not on Thursday.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:10 am

Game Day!!!

GO SENS GO!!!

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:24 am

shabbs wrote:Game Day!!!

GO SENS GO!!!



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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:29 am

Sounds like Spezza will be a game-time decision. Clouston's presser after practice today should be interesting.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:31 am

Yeah, Clouston's last presser said it could come right down to game time depending on how he feels. Re-evaluating all the way through.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by wprager on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:01 am

I can't believe the wait is almost over.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:25 am

Ahhhhh! Ahhhhh!

Oh man, it feels like we've just waited through another off-season. Go Sens! Score 8 tonight (that's right, 8).

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:27 am

More speculation that Spezza could be back tonight...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/11/05/senators_spezza/

I'll wait to hear what Clouston says after the skate this morning.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:28 am

I I love you Spezza. I miss him so much when he doesn't play, it makes the entire Sens team look completely different in my eyes.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:29 am


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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:39 am

Lines at practice today:

Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson
Kovalev-Fisher-Shannon
Foligno-Regin-Neil
Ruutu-Kelly-Cheechoo
Donovan-Winchester

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:58 am

shabbs wrote:Lines at practice today:

Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson
Kovalev-Fisher-Shannon
Foligno-Regin-Neil
Ruutu-Kelly-Cheechoo
Donovan-Winchester


That's a spicy meatball? confused

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by jamvan on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:59 am

shabbs wrote:Lines at practice today:

Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson
Kovalev-Fisher-Shannon
Foligno-Regin-Neil
Ruutu-Kelly-Cheechoo
Donovan-Winchester

Not 100% sure about Shannon way up on lne 2, but all in all those are lines you can salivate about.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:04 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:
shabbs wrote:Lines at practice today:

Michalek-Spezza-Alfredsson
Kovalev-Fisher-Shannon
Foligno-Regin-Neil
Ruutu-Kelly-Cheechoo
Donovan-Winchester


That's a spicy meatball?


I guess Alfie will try to get Spezza going? Not sure about the Kovie, Fisher, Shannon line. I know Fisher has had some chemistry with both of them but I would have figured the duos were Alfie-Fish and Michalek Spezza not Kovi-Fish and Michalek-Spezza. Here's hoping it works.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:06 pm

shabbs wrote:More speculation that Spezza could be back tonight...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/11/05/senators_spezza/

I'll wait to hear what Clouston says after the skate this morning.


and Garrioch

http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/hockey/2009/11/05/11645881.html

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:17 pm

Clouston: Donovan and Winchester not playing. Leclaire starts in goal.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by jamvan on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:18 pm

shabbs wrote:Clouston: Donovan and Winchester not playing. Leclaire starts in goal.


Is shabbs greek for Twitter? lol~!

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:18 pm

jamvan wrote:
shabbs wrote:Clouston: Donovan and Winchester not playing. Leclaire starts in goal.


Is shabbs greek for Twitter? lol~!

Yessir!

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:23 pm

shabbs wrote:Clouston: Donovan and Winchester not playing. Leclaire starts in goal.


Oh oh. Neely will be pissed. Ahhhhh!

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:24 pm

Some posts aren't showing up for me. It's bizarre. Anyone else seeing that there's a new post in a thread but when you go there the post isn't there?

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:26 pm

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
I guess Alfie will try to get Spezza going? Not sure about the Kovie, Fisher, Shannon line. I know Fisher has had some chemistry with both of them but I would have figured the duos were Alfie-Fish and Michalek Spezza not Kovi-Fish and Michalek-Spezza. Here's hoping it works.


Alfie to get Spezza going though? Spezza's going like gangbusters, playing the best hockey of his life IMO. Maybe Clouston feels that because Spezza's playing so well, he deserves a linemate not named Cheechoo or Shannon right now (both at zero goals is all I mean).

Gorgeous first line, then we do the traditional amazing fall off after that.

Put the FFS line back together if you're gonna do these kind of moves - and move Kovalev down with Regin and Cheechoo. Play Kovalev on all PPs though obviously.

Dunno, very interesting to say the least.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:39 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:
I guess Alfie will try to get Spezza going? Not sure about the Kovie, Fisher, Shannon line. I know Fisher has had some chemistry with both of them but I would have figured the duos were Alfie-Fish and Michalek Spezza not Kovi-Fish and Michalek-Spezza. Here's hoping it works.


Alfie to get Spezza going though? Spezza's going like gangbusters, playing the best hockey of his life IMO. Maybe Clouston feels that because Spezza's playing so well, he deserves a linemate not named Cheechoo or Shannon right now (both at zero goals is all I mean).

Gorgeous first line, then we do the traditional amazing fall off after that.

Put the FFS line back together if you're gonna do these kind of moves - and move Kovalev down with Regin and Cheechoo. Play Kovalev on all PPs though obviously.

Dunno, very interesting to say the least.


By getting Spezza going I mean in terms of goal scoring. As far as putting Alfie on one line and Fisher on the other I think it's probably due to the fact that they are the teams two top scorers and Clouston probably wants them on two lines so as to make the opposition choose a line to shut down.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:44 pm


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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:51 pm

Cap'n Clutch wrote:By getting Spezza going I mean in terms of goal scoring. As far as putting Alfie on one line and Fisher on the other I think it's probably due to the fact that they are the teams two top scorers and Clouston probably wants them on two lines so as to make the opposition choose a line to shut down.


What's the nicest way of saying this...I think Alfredsson strongly contributes to Fisher's numbers by being on the wing with him. Smile

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by hemlock on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:53 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:By getting Spezza going I mean in terms of goal scoring. As far as putting Alfie on one line and Fisher on the other I think it's probably due to the fact that they are the teams two top scorers and Clouston probably wants them on two lines so as to make the opposition choose a line to shut down.


What's the nicest way of saying this...I think Alfredsson strongly contributes to Fisher's numbers by being on the wing with him. Smile


I think that's probably the same for most centres in the league though, not just Fisher. It's an Alfie thing.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:54 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:By getting Spezza going I mean in terms of goal scoring. As far as putting Alfie on one line and Fisher on the other I think it's probably due to the fact that they are the teams two top scorers and Clouston probably wants them on two lines so as to make the opposition choose a line to shut down.


What's the nicest way of saying this...I think Alfredsson strongly contributes to Fisher's numbers by being on the wing with him. Smile


I tend to agree. I'm just trying to get in Clouston's head. Why else would he split Fisher and Alfie? If he believed as we do then is he trying to see if he's right or is he trying to prove himself wrong here? scratch

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by jamvan on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:59 pm

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:By getting Spezza going I mean in terms of goal scoring. As far as putting Alfie on one line and Fisher on the other I think it's probably due to the fact that they are the teams two top scorers and Clouston probably wants them on two lines so as to make the opposition choose a line to shut down.


What's the nicest way of saying this...I think Alfredsson strongly contributes to Fisher's numbers by being on the wing with him. Smile


I tend to agree. I'm just trying to get in Clouston's head. Why else would he split Fisher and Alfie? If he believed as we do then is he trying to see if he's right or is he trying to prove himself wrong here? scratch

If there's one thing I won't do is question Clouston. He has been pretty good so far in making decisions and we know now, he's not afraid of mixing up lines mid game.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:00 pm

Cap'n Clutch wrote:
I tend to agree. I'm just trying to get in Clouston's head. Why else would he split Fisher and Alfie? If he believed as we do then is he trying to see if he's right or is he trying to prove himself wrong here? scratch


He wants to score some goals, that would be my assessment of that situation. It's scary though because as deep as we are, that's still putting a lot of the eggs in one basket. Killer line though, I just want to see that line for a shift or 10. Ahhhhh!

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:00 pm

jamvan wrote:If there's one thing I won't do is question Clouston. He has been pretty good so far in making decisions and we know now, he's not afraid of mixing up lines mid game.


Never. He thinks about these things more than we do (if that's possible). He knows what he's doing 100%. Never question, just watch and see how it all unfolds.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by SpezDispenser on Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:30 pm

Cheechoo on line 4? Why not just scratch him and put in Winchester. I want to see what he can bring to the table after such a long layoff.

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:24 pm

Can I get a GO SENS GO?

GO SENS GO!!!!

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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by shabbs on Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:26 pm

Projected lines:




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Re: GAME DAY: Tampa Bay Lightning @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Thu. Nov. 5th, 2009

Post by jamvan on Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:36 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:Cheechoo on line 4? Why not just scratch him and put in Winchester. I want to see what he can bring to the table after such a long layoff.
That's where he deserves to be. Clouston did say he'd get some PP time and that our 4th line cannot be called a 4th line.

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