Some trade value reality

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    Aetherial
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    Some trade value reality

    Post by Aetherial on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:11 pm

    Not trolling here... but some reality is needed I think.

    I am seeing trade suggestions like Vermette + 2nd for Horton? (edit: misquote on my oroginal post) ... financial reasons being part of that equation.

    I even saw Vermette and Fisher for Horton and Bouwmeester (admittedly PKC seemed to know he was being "optimistic")

    But seriously guys...

    Vermette 26, Cap: 2.763, Career NHL .442 PPG +/- +17
    Fisher 28, Cap: 4.2, Career NHL .508 PPG +/- +33

    Ponikarovsky 28, Cap: 2.105, Career NHL .478 PPG +/- +48
    Antropov 28, Cap: 2.5, Career NHL .559 PPG +/- +63

    If I came on here and suggested Ponikarovsky and Antropov for Bouwmeester and Horton, I would get laughed off of this board. You know I would.

    Yet, by the numbers, I wouldn't trade Ponikarovsky and Antropov for Fisher and Vermette.

    The problem I think is that you dont realize that Vermette may be trade bait but not for a first line player, forward or D, and Fisher... well I think it is time people accepted that he is WAY overpaid for his production. If I am Jacques Martin both of these guys don't get me either Horton or Bouwmeester.

    If Ottawa needs a shake-up, and they do, they aren't going to do it by dumping overpaid underperforming players for 1st line players from other teams... Leafs fans have been ridiculed for suggestions no worse than these ones for years!!


    Last edited by Aetherial on Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Mojo
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by Mojo on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:25 pm

    I can't really disagree with you here. I still think I would rather have Fisher and Vermette over your boys but the Sens are very close to becoming what the Leafs used to be. Murray and Melnyk need to realize this now and act accordingly.

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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by Guest on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:31 pm

    Yeah I agree. I thought the Vermette+2nd suggestion was hilarious - especially becuase, no more than a month ago, Vermette, Lee, Zubov, and a 1st was considered "just enough" to get Bouwmeester alone.
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    asq2
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by asq2 on Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:57 pm

    Agreed.

    I don't think making trades right now is the way to go, unless it's shipping out guys playing perhaps above their value like Auld and/or Kuba.

    If things don't change, we stand a good chance of getting a blue-chipper in the system. If they do, values will go up and then a trade can be made.
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    Aetherial
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by Aetherial on Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:09 pm

    asq2 wrote:Agreed.

    I don't think making trades right now is the way to go, unless it's shipping out guys playing perhaps above their value like Auld and/or Kuba.

    If things don't change, we stand a good chance of getting a blue-chipper in the system. If they do, values will go up and then a trade can be made.

    I can't knock Heater though because he has a good hockey head on his shoulders... I think he go carried away with the Horton idea.

    So... what I hoped this would lead to is a "what *can* the Sens do" discussion.

    I would say Spezza trade has to be considered... and I think that they should have traded Alfredsson in the summer as painful as that would be (which I totally get... I am not amused by Sundin).
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by Cronie on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:06 pm

    I have been converted and I do believe and am o.k with sending Spezza packing. If the rumors are true that the cap may very well decrease by as much as $10 or $11M in 2010, carrying a few forwards with $7M+ price tags won't work, especially if one or none of them are earning that money.

    It's all about the timing and his (in this case, Spezza) value.
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    COLLAR UP
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by COLLAR UP on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:11 pm

    i am still saying EDM would be a good dance partner when dealing Spez...

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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by Sens4thecup on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:14 pm

    I think (or now hope) that Murray holds on to Spezza (and others) until the trade deadline. Maybe the prices for our "marquee" players will have been driven up?
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by shabbs on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:21 pm

    Meh. I have a feeling we'll see no major changes until after this season.
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by Acrobat on Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:52 pm

    Wouldn't Spezza be a better draft-day trade?
    He's a known commodity - send him plus a mid-range prospect out, and take a high-end first rounder back (plus maybe a servicable player or two) - then try to swap two of the firsts for a top-five pick.

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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by Guest on Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:09 pm

    Acrobat wrote:Wouldn't Spezza be a better draft-day trade?
    He's a known commodity - send him plus a mid-range prospect out, and take a high-end first rounder back (plus maybe a servicable player or two) - then try to swap two of the firsts for a top-five pick.

    Spezza AND a prospect had better fetch more than a "high-end first rounder" and a servicable player or two? Servicable is a nice way of saying he's barely above a plug.

    I'd be thinking more along the lines of a roster player, 1st and prospect for Spezza. Add a prospect with him only is the pick is top 5 or the prospect is blue chip.
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by wprager on Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:14 pm

    Aetherial wrote:Not trolling here... but some reality is needed I think.

    I am seeing trade suggestions like Vermette + 2nd for Horton? (edit: misquote on my oroginal post) ... financial reasons being part of that equation.

    I even saw Vermette and Fisher for Horton and Bouwmeester (admittedly PKC seemed to know he was being "optimistic")

    But seriously guys...

    Vermette 26, Cap: 2.763, Career NHL .442 PPG +/- +17
    Fisher 28, Cap: 4.2, Career NHL .508 PPG +/- +33

    Ponikarovsky 28, Cap: 2.105, Career NHL .478 PPG +/- +48
    Antropov 28, Cap: 2.5, Career NHL .559 PPG +/- +63

    If I came on here and suggested Ponikarovsky and Antropov for Bouwmeester and Horton, I would get laughed off of this board. You know I would.

    Yet, by the numbers, I wouldn't trade Ponikarovsky and Antropov for Fisher and Vermette.

    The problem I think is that you dont realize that Vermette may be trade bait but not for a first line player, forward or D, and Fisher... well I think it is time people accepted that he is WAY overpaid for his production. If I am Jacques Martin both of these guys don't get me either Horton or Bouwmeester.

    If Ottawa needs a shake-up, and they do, they aren't going to do it by dumping overpaid underperforming players for 1st line players from other teams... Leafs fans have been ridiculed for suggestions no worse than these ones for years!!

    I'm a bit late to the party but I'll just say what probably has already been said (haven't had time to read yet).

    Fisher and Vermette never got a chance to play with Sundin on a regular basis.

    Fisher brings tons of heart that rubs off and makes others compete.

    Vermette could be top-five in the league at faceoffs if he was given a regular stint at centre.

    Both Fisher and Vermette kill penalties and do it very well.
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by PKC on Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:42 pm

    I was only kidding when I said Fisher and Vermette for Horton and Bouwmeester. Quite frankly, if I was a Panthers fan, and someone offered me that trade, my reaction would be so violent and include so much projectile vomit that I would be better off not having heard the trade to begin with.
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    LeCaptain
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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by LeCaptain on Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:45 am

    wprager wrote:
    Aetherial wrote:Not trolling here... but some reality is needed I think.

    I am seeing trade suggestions like Vermette + 2nd for Horton? (edit: misquote on my oroginal post) ... financial reasons being part of that equation.

    I even saw Vermette and Fisher for Horton and Bouwmeester (admittedly PKC seemed to know he was being "optimistic")

    But seriously guys...

    Vermette 26, Cap: 2.763, Career NHL .442 PPG +/- +17
    Fisher 28, Cap: 4.2, Career NHL .508 PPG +/- +33

    Ponikarovsky 28, Cap: 2.105, Career NHL .478 PPG +/- +48
    Antropov 28, Cap: 2.5, Career NHL .559 PPG +/- +63

    If I came on here and suggested Ponikarovsky and Antropov for Bouwmeester and Horton, I would get laughed off of this board. You know I would.

    Yet, by the numbers, I wouldn't trade Ponikarovsky and Antropov for Fisher and Vermette.

    The problem I think is that you dont realize that Vermette may be trade bait but not for a first line player, forward or D, and Fisher... well I think it is time people accepted that he is WAY overpaid for his production. If I am Jacques Martin both of these guys don't get me either Horton or Bouwmeester.

    If Ottawa needs a shake-up, and they do, they aren't going to do it by dumping overpaid underperforming players for 1st line players from other teams... Leafs fans have been ridiculed for suggestions no worse than these ones for years!!

    I'm a bit late to the party but I'll just say what probably has already been said (haven't had time to read yet).

    Fisher and Vermette never got a chance to play with Sundin on a regular basis.

    Fisher brings tons of heart that rubs off and makes others compete.

    Vermette could be top-five in the league at faceoffs if he was given a regular stint at centre.

    Both Fisher and Vermette kill penalties and do it very well.

    Isn't vermette already 3rd in FO?

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    Re: Some trade value reality

    Post by Guest on Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:44 am

    marakh wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Aetherial wrote:Not trolling here... but some reality is needed I think.

    I am seeing trade suggestions like Vermette + 2nd for Horton? (edit: misquote on my oroginal post) ... financial reasons being part of that equation.

    I even saw Vermette and Fisher for Horton and Bouwmeester (admittedly PKC seemed to know he was being "optimistic")

    But seriously guys...

    Vermette 26, Cap: 2.763, Career NHL .442 PPG +/- +17
    Fisher 28, Cap: 4.2, Career NHL .508 PPG +/- +33

    Ponikarovsky 28, Cap: 2.105, Career NHL .478 PPG +/- +48
    Antropov 28, Cap: 2.5, Career NHL .559 PPG +/- +63

    If I came on here and suggested Ponikarovsky and Antropov for Bouwmeester and Horton, I would get laughed off of this board. You know I would.

    Yet, by the numbers, I wouldn't trade Ponikarovsky and Antropov for Fisher and Vermette.

    The problem I think is that you dont realize that Vermette may be trade bait but not for a first line player, forward or D, and Fisher... well I think it is time people accepted that he is WAY overpaid for his production. If I am Jacques Martin both of these guys don't get me either Horton or Bouwmeester.

    If Ottawa needs a shake-up, and they do, they aren't going to do it by dumping overpaid underperforming players for 1st line players from other teams... Leafs fans have been ridiculed for suggestions no worse than these ones for years!!

    I'm a bit late to the party but I'll just say what probably has already been said (haven't had time to read yet).

    Fisher and Vermette never got a chance to play with Sundin on a regular basis.

    Fisher brings tons of heart that rubs off and makes others compete.

    Vermette could be top-five in the league at faceoffs if he was given a regular stint at centre.

    Both Fisher and Vermette kill penalties and do it very well.

    Isn't vermette already 3rd in FO?

    Fair enough though. Aetherial has some valid points... Although I would happily not trade Vermette and Fisher for Annie and her Pony. Vermette has always had potential meaning he hasn't done anything so unless JM really does have a man crush on him he ain't worth much. Fisher on the other hand I would disagree with. He is more of a Gary Roberts type who is always in demand. There are 29 other GMs that would put him in their line-up immediately.

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