Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

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    wprager
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    Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by wprager on Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:10 pm

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2008/12/24/ot-081224-strike.html?ref=rss


    This world is going to hell in a handbasket, whatever that expression means. A judge has ruled that 80 pickets will be allowed at the city-owned Civic Centre arena.

    Now, I'm not arguing about the union's *right* to strike (I could, but I won't) but I am questioning their desire to picket outside a venue for the World Junior Hockey tournament. What do young men playing hockey to represent their countries have to do with the union's demands? As far as I know it is not the City of Ottawa that is putting on this tournament. Sure, they are involved because, after all, they are the City, but this is far over the line as far as I am concerned.

    They want to get their way and they will do pretty much anything as long as it is not illegal to achieve that goal. Morals are thrown out the window; basic human decency and respect -- the very thing they are, apparently, striking over -- are disregarded.

    Oh what I'd give to be one of those young hockey players, walking pas the picket lines while carrying my equipment bag and a few sticks over my shoulder.
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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by TheAvatar on Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:55 am

    Exceedingly idiotic isn't it?
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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by Snuh on Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:23 am

    This is so lame. Makes me sick just thinking how selfish these OC Transpo employees are. This is by far the biggest sporting event to hit the city, and these idiots are going to give Ottawa a bad name and reputation. This will hurt the city big time if it gets out of hand. Cutting off service at Christmas is one thing, but what are they trying to prove by picketing at this tournament? I've also heard they might be picketing at the Bell Capital Cup, a tournament for kids 9-12 years old. WTF?

    Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all!
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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by wprager on Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:50 am

    Snuh wrote:This is so lame. Makes me sick just thinking how selfish these OC Transpo employees are. This is by far the biggest sporting event to hit the city, and these idiots are going to give Ottawa a bad name and reputation. This will hurt the city big time if it gets out of hand. Cutting off service at Christmas is one thing, but what are they trying to prove by picketing at this tournament? I've also heard they might be picketing at the Bell Capital Cup, a tournament for kids 9-12 years old. WTF?

    Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all!

    Just sick, if they really plan on doing it. Disgraceful

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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by Guest on Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:45 pm

    You could murder a human being on parliment hill, on national TV and have more support than screwing with Canadians and their hockey!

    In all seriousness though, this is disgusting and hope they get exactly what is coming to them!

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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by Guest on Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:59 pm

    wprager wrote:http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2008/12/24/ot-081224-strike.html?ref=rss


    This world is going to hell in a handbasket, whatever that expression means. A judge has ruled that 80 pickets will be allowed at the city-owned Civic Centre arena.

    Now, I'm not arguing about the union's *right* to strike (I could, but I won't) but I am questioning their desire to picket outside a venue for the World Junior Hockey tournament. What do young men playing hockey to represent their countries have to do with the union's demands? As far as I know it is not the City of Ottawa that is putting on this tournament. Sure, they are involved because, after all, they are the City, but this is far over the line as far as I am concerned.

    They want to get their way and they will do pretty much anything as long as it is not illegal to achieve that goal. Morals are thrown out the window; basic human decency and respect -- the very thing they are, apparently, striking over -- are disregarded.

    Oh what I'd give to be one of those young hockey players, walking pas the picket lines while carrying my equipment bag and a few sticks over my shoulder.

    We live close to several bus drivers and trust me they arn't impressed either. In fact I've heard several times from them that everyone they know would vote in favor of the deal if it were put up to vote, but the union leadership won't do that. Instead they (the leadership) refuse to put the deal in front of the union.

    Now with that said, it's important to note that the pickets can't obstruct cars or people going into or out of the arena. So essentially they are there to simply hand out pamphlets and try to get public opinion on their side.

    We're going to a couple of games and I intend to let those guys know how they ruined my X-mas with no busses and are trying to ruin my hockey...I feel bad for the guy who crosses Dawg...397 penalty minutes in Junior hockey and his knuckles are white with rage at the though of a union guy gettnig agressive.
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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by wprager on Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:38 pm

    This is the tool representing the union:


    On the one hand I sort of feel for the drivers because they appear to be stuck behind this idiot. I'm sure if another vote is taken (even on the original contract proposal) they would not get anywhere near 98%. And by all accounts Cormellier insists on not allowing another vote, so the drivers are stuck.

    On the other hand, they voted this moron into power, so it's their own damned fault. I hope their strike pay runs out soon because this is really screwing around with my ability to get to work, but I don't want to see the city back down.

    It's about inconveniencing people, what's wrong with that?

    Can anyone tell me why we need unions anymore? We've got labour laws to make sure that no-one is taken advantage of. There is no need for unions in this day and age, in this country.

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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by Guest on Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:06 am

    wprager wrote:
    Can anyone tell me why we need unions anymore? We've got labour laws to make sure that no-one is taken advantage of. There is no need for unions in this day and age, in this country.

    We need unions to keep the children from the poor working conditions in the coal mines... Oh wait is this 1908?
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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by Acrobat on Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:59 pm

    wprager wrote:
    On the one hand I sort of feel for the drivers because they appear to be stuck behind this idiot. I'm sure if another vote is taken (even on the original contract proposal) they would not get anywhere near 98%. And by all accounts Cormellier insists on not allowing another vote, so the drivers are stuck.

    On the other hand, they voted this moron into power, so it's their own damned fault. I hope their strike pay runs out soon because this is really screwing around with my ability to get to work, but I don't want to see the city back down.

    I'm not sure I see the problem here...
    He wants a system where the worker gets a raise of more than twice the recent cost of living/inflation, in an environment where deflation is a real possibility going forward, and many are worried about just having any sort of job or income stream, while the worker/union continues to retain the ability to set his/her own working hours in order to ensure that he/she can maximize the (ab)use of the overtime system to increase the strain on the overburdened taxpayer as well as to continue to flaunt safety codes by allowing drivers to work over 12h-16h at a stretch.

    It seems perfectly logical to me.
    Every workplace should be like this.

    Mr. Cormellier: squirrel
    I salute you.
    Nay, I applaud you.
    Because, despite your obvious lack of intelligence, compassion, or oratory skills, you managed to convince a whole load of union employees that you knew what the f*** you were talking about.

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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by The_Dude on Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:36 am

    Well, it seems that the drivers decided not to excercise their right to picket.

    At least not yesterday.
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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by Nasty Nas on Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:41 am

    they were there for the game Russia vs Latvia that I went to.
    They weren't hostile or anything at all. Just politely
    asked if I wanted some pamphlet then wished me to enjoy the game after
    I said no.
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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:09 am

    wprager wrote:

    Can anyone tell me why we need unions anymore? We've got labour laws to make sure that no-one is taken advantage of. There is no need for unions in this day and age, in this country.

    The problem with relying on these labour laws is that Companies take advantage of employees anyway and most either don't realise it or do nothing about it. When someone does decide to do something the people that investigate these issues are severely understaffed and it takes an extremely long time to get anything done about it and you better make damn sure all your ducks are in order, all your t's crossed and i's dotted as well. Sure the employee may get restitution eventually but nothing happens to the employer and nothing is done to ensure that the other employees are treated fairly. So yes unions unfortunately are needed.


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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by wprager on Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:40 pm

    The_Dude wrote:Well, it seems that the drivers decided not to excercise their right to picket.

    At least not yesterday.

    Whatsamatter? They miss the +9 weather?
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    Re: Pickets allowed at the Civic Centre Arena

    Post by wprager on Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:56 pm

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:
    wprager wrote:

    Can anyone tell me why we need unions anymore? We've got labour laws to make sure that no-one is taken advantage of. There is no need for unions in this day and age, in this country.

    The problem with relying on these labour laws is that Companies take advantage of employees anyway and most either don't realise it or do nothing about it. When someone does decide to do something the people that investigate these issues are severely understaffed and it takes an extremely long time to get anything done about it and you better make damn sure all your ducks are in order, all your t's crossed and i's dotted as well. Sure the employee may get restitution eventually but nothing happens to the employer and nothing is done to ensure that the other employees are treated fairly. So yes unions unfortunately are needed.

    I'd be happier without them.

    15 years ago, when I came to Ottawa, I had a pretty good paying job in high tech. I'd spent 9 years in University getting a Bachelor's and Master's degrees in Comp Sci, and had six years experience (not counting some TAing I did in university). Then I heard that a bus driver, with seniority, could make more than I could by working some overtime and holidays. I was routinely putting in 50 hours per week, plus some weekends, no OT pay, of course.

    Since that time, yes, the telecom boom was very nice to me, so I'm pretty sure my pay increased more than the bus drivers'. That didn't last, of course, and for the last six years I was there my salary was frozen; then, after surviving 8 rounds of layoffs, I did not survive the ninth. Now I work for the Feds, at about a 42% cut to my previous (frozen) salary. I spend 2 more hours per day commuting than I di before, and have to pay $101 each month for a bus pass. The extra commuting time means I have to drop the kids off at pre-school care, which costs me an extra $700/month. And since this is not a permanent or even a term position (it's "casual" if you know the federal labour lingo) I get no benefits or sick days.

    And I remember a good friend who got cut in an earlier round of layoffs, who ended up having to work as a mechanic at Canadian Tire until times got a little better. There are people much, much worse off than I am. More Nortel layoffs, GM/Ford/Chrysler, Bell Canada, CTV, and so on, and so forth. The only positive recently has been the drop in gas prices, which is due, primarily to the recession.

    And yet this union thinks they deserve a 7% raise (over 3 years, granted, but retroactive), extra sick days, lump-sum bonus, *and* pick their hours? Out of touch with reality would be an understatement.

    I have zero pity for them, even the ones that want to go back to work. They picked the union leaders, they voted in favour of this strike (well, 98% of them did), and not enough of them are vocal enough now. If they don't like this situation, if they feel they chose the wrong leaders, if they disagree with how matters are going, then they need to speak out. And if they are afraid to speak out, then that's all the more reason to put this union out of existence.

    There once was a need, but that is no longer the case and hasn't been for probably 40-60 years. Unions should exist to look out for safety, working conditions and health concerns. Not money or something as arbitrary as picking your schedule. If they don't like the money or the schedule, they can do like everyone else and find another line of work.

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