The Senators: A Tough Sell

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    Have the Sens lost the trust of their fans?

    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 8 ]
    23% [23%] 
    [ 3 ]
    9% [9%] 
    [ 23 ]
    66% [66%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 1 ]
    2% [2%] 

    Total Votes: 35

    Cap'n Clutch
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:39 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:All it tells them is you're not happy.

    And?

    The results in Toronto support the "ludicrous" argument that they are less about winning than the bottom line.

    Tell the team you're not happy and you'll get assurances that they are listening and you're a valued customer and that they look forward to your continued support and you will feel somehow important with those empty words.

    Action provokes reaction and it goes both ways. Actions by the team that show the fans a commitment to winning drive ticket purchases.

    The action of withdrawing your financial support of the team will provoke the reaction of intensifying the work to deliver an acceptable product on the ice.

    So MLSE cares about revenue but just not enough to want the boat loads of playoff revenue? That makes sense. scratch

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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:44 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:So MLSE cares about revenue but just not enough to want the boat loads of playoff revenue? That makes sense. scratch

    MLSE cares less about playoff revenue than most teams because they can fill the building in the regular season for extortionist ticket prices and they are sitting on interest-bearing seat license money.

    Anyway, I've had enough of not making sense and offering ludicrous arguments.

    All is well in Ottawaland and everyone will be lining up to watch a losing team.

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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:44 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:All it tells them is you're not happy.

    And?

    The results in Toronto support the "ludicrous" argument that they are less about winning than the bottom line.

    Tell the team you're not happy and you'll get assurances that they are listening and you're a valued customer and that they look forward to your continued support and you will feel somehow important with those empty words.

    Action provokes reaction and it goes both ways. Actions by the team that show the fans a commitment to winning drive ticket purchases.

    The action of withdrawing your financial support of the team will provoke the reaction of intensifying the work to deliver an acceptable product on the ice.

    So MLSE cares about revenue but just not enough to want the boat loads of playoff revenue? That makes sense. scratch

    Edit: It also doesn't explain why they don't just spend to the Cap floor. If it's all about the bottom line then they'd spend the minimum amount of money on the team.
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    Cronie
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Cronie on Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:49 am

    Hayden wrote:regardless how they play - i'm still on the edge of my seat for every game. makes me sick when "fans" say they're never watching them again or that they're going to stop going to games.

    they will always be my team - regardless.

    Exactly Hayden!

    While I am not fond of watching lacklustre efforts or NO efforts put forth at all, the Sens will always be and remain my #1 team, period.

    As my father says: "Every good thing must come to an end someday and you have to take the good and the bad." I just hope the bad won't continue for yet another season. LOL

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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Guest on Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:10 am

    I'll give the organization credit...they didn't try to steal a ticket increase from the fans...

    They have frozen all season ticket prices for next year, as well changed the payment options to be way more flexible and even added increased savings if you pay at once.

    More incentives to season ticket holders to renew as well as contests aplenty (trips with the team, first 500 to have a meet and greet with the players, free tickets for a year...etc).

    The only thing I cringed at was the question on the renewal as to whether I wanted Playoff tickets. I know they have to ask as technically they haven't been eliminated yet, but my god, do you have to rub it in.

    I sent a letter to my rep and Mlakar, asking why they didn't just wait another month before sending out the renewal notices..it's not like they need to prepare for the playoffs, and there are plenty of people who haven't decided whether they are renewing thus forcing them to decide now may not be productive.
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    PTFlea
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:27 am

    Hayden wrote:regardless how they play - i'm still on the edge of my seat for every game. makes me sick when "fans" say they're never watching them again or that they're going to stop going to games.

    they will always be my team - regardless.

    Bingo. Anyone who didn't vote "Win or lose, Sens are my team", then change teams and go to Chicago's forum or whatever team you wish to support. I haven't put all this emotion and energy into this team just to walk when things get tough.

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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Guest on Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:53 am

    504Heater wrote:
    Hayden wrote:regardless how they play - i'm still on the edge of my seat for every game. makes me sick when "fans" say they're never watching them again or that they're going to stop going to games.

    they will always be my team - regardless.

    Bingo. Anyone who didn't vote "Win or lose, Sens are my team", then change teams and go to Chicago's forum or whatever team you wish to support. I haven't put all this emotion and energy into this team just to walk when things get tough.

    Amen, love the team hate the effort recently but I haven't wasted all this time to switch loyalty now. I am excited about the future and I will still watch every game, once in a while they are still entertaining....
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    asq2
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by asq2 on Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:59 pm

    Unfortunately, I had to side with the majority.

    Dealing Spezza for quantity would try that though.
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    caissie_1
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by caissie_1 on Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:15 pm

    Im a sens fan for life no matter what. Sure ill get pissed off at the team but i will always support it!
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    davetherave
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by davetherave on Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:58 am

    As an Ottawa native and returning resident, I am very proud of Ottawa's hockey tradition and the accomplishments of the legendary Ottawa teams.

    I want the Senators to do well. I have watched every game this season and been to two games at SBP (vs. Montreal and Atlanta). But Eugene Melnyk's team has failed to earn my trust and my dollar.

    And IMHO I speak for more than a few hockey fans in this region.

    Because for me, a team that hates to lose is first and foremost.

    These Senators don't hate to lose. Even Cory Clouston has already said it.

    There are a few Sens who do hate to lose. Brian Elliott is one. Chris Neil is another. But it takes a whole team that has that attitude.

    IMHO the organization and the team need to demonstrate--in concrete ways--that they are prepared to do whatever it takes to win.

    To speak bluntly, Bryan Murray's explanations and excuses for why he can't do this and can't do that are ultimately of marginal interest. He is paid--handsomely--to deliver a team and a product that competes.

    Making two unsuccessful coaching hires in a row does nothing to help his case.

    A realistic perspective, a coherent vision, and a clear plan are fundamental. Murray has been with the team long enough to know what that means. So he should do what he has do. Period.

    If it means going through the pain of rebuilding, so be it.

    If the Senators lose games in the process while giving 110% for 60 minutes, game in, game out, the hockey fans in this city--and not just the diehard Sens fans--will support them.

    Otherwise, there's not much reason to spend at least $200 for two people to see a game at SBP.
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:07 am

    I have a quetion for you Dave. Being a diehard BlackHawks fan how did you react to the years of futility in Chicago and the mismanagement? Did you stay away? Did you stop watching or caring?


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    dennycrane
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by dennycrane on Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:15 am

    The passion level will always fluctuate with the success of the team a bit, but loyal fans will always stick around.

    The owner seems willing to pump in the money to put out a winner. I don't care if he sheds a bit of salary this year - Mr. Melnyk has spent to the cap in previous years.

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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:40 am

    Thats the thing right there, Melnyk is willing to put out the cash for the winner, which means a lot to the city, but right now I dont believe he needs to waste his money and efforts trying to get fans to watch a product he deems is good enough to win.
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by davetherave on Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:48 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:I have a quetion for you Dave. Being a diehard BlackHawks fan how did you react to the years of futility in Chicago and the mismanagement? Did you stay away? Did you stop watching or caring?

    Good question. I became a Blackhawks fan just before they won their last Cup in 1961 because I was fascinated by the players, their logo and their history. I just thought they were really cool. I read about the great 40's teams with Bill Mosienko and Max Bentley and I was captivated by Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, and Glenn Hall among others.

    But what I related to was the character of the team.

    Through good and bad years, that character never disappeared. Even through the management debacles, some of Bob Pulford's strange decisions and the late Bill Wirtz's intransigence, there was always the pride of the Blackhawks that could be seen in the players.

    The Keith Magnusons, Pat Stapletons, Tony Espositos, Steve Larmers, Ed Belfours, Jeremy Roenicks, Darryl Sutters, Doug Wilsons, Denis Savards, the list goes on and on. Win or lose, you always felt they were committed to competing.

    There was, and is--if one can use the term--a certain magic in pulling on a Blackhawks jersey.

    So no matter where I have lived, whether in this city, or abroad, I have always followed, and cheered for, the Blackhawks.

    I also admire Chicago fans' loyalty to their sports teams, like the Hawks, Cubs, White Sox, Bears, and Bulls.

    Here is an anecdote which sums up what the Hawks are about: Denis Savard called out his young talents last year. He said, "If you don't understand what it means 'to play for the Indian'"--the storied symbol of the Hawks--"then you don't belong on this team."

    Savard took them as far as he could. Hawks management, under the guidance of Bill Wirtz' son and successor Rocky, realized they had to take the team to the next level. Dale Tallon was given a mandate to bring in Campbell and Huet--big committments. When Scotty Bowman and Joel Quenneville came on board, Savard was obliged to step aside as coach--but he is well rewarded and respected as an Ambassador for the Blackhawks.

    This year and during the Winter Classic, the Blackhawks have showed their class and reverence for the team's heritage by honouring their legends, like Bobby Hull, Tony Esposito, Pierre Pilote, Stan Mikita and Denis Savard among others.

    This serves as a lesson and a motivation for the young guys.

    It means playing for more than your paycheque. More than statistics. More than even a Cup. It means playing 'for the Indian'. And knowing your personal best isn't good enough if your team is less than the best it can be.

    This year's team is a reward for Blackhawks fans who have been patient. But these same fans have never been shy about voicing their criticism--and showing their displeasure by speaking with their closed wallets.

    One thing is clear--the young Hawks are worthy of the tremendous support they are receiving. How far they go this season, well who knows?

    I watched the Hawks-Flames game last night (as I do every one of Chicago's games if possible). 110% effort and T-E-A-M spirit, from beginning to end, by both teams. It's no coincidence that Darryl Sutter and Mike Keenan, both former Hawks coaches, knew exactly what they would be facing.

    Having talent is something. But playing with pride means everything. 8)

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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:58 pm

    I do admire the young Hawks players for attending the funeral of Dale Tallon's father. That was a pretty classy move by some young guys. Although the internet story tried to glam it up, the true story was touching enough....

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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by Guest on Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:03 pm

    davetherave wrote:
    Good question. I became a Blackhawks fan just before they won their last Cup in 1961 because I was fascinated by the players, their logo and their history. I just thought they were really cool. I read about the great 40's teams with Bill Mosienko and Max Bentley and I was captivated by Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, and Glenn Hall among others.

    But what I related to was the character of the team.

    Through good and bad years, that character never disappeared. Even through the management debacles, some of Bob Pulford's strange decisions and the late Bill Wirtz's intransigence, there was always the pride of the Blackhawks that could be seen in the players.

    The Keith Magnusons, Pat Stapletons, Tony Espositos, Steve Larmers, Ed Belfours, Jeremy Roenicks, Darryl Sutters, Doug Wilsons, Denis Savards, the list goes on and on. Win or lose, you always felt they were committed to competing.

    There was, and is--if one can use the term--a certain magic in pulling on a Blackhawks jersey.

    So no matter where I have lived, whether in this city, or abroad, I have always followed, and cheered for, the Blackhawks.

    I also admire Chicago fans' loyalty to their sports teams, like the Hawks, Cubs, White Sox, Bears, and Bulls.

    Here is an anecdote which sums up what the Hawks are about: Denis Savard called out his young talents last year. He said, "If you don't understand what it means 'to play for the Indian'"--the storied symbol of the Hawks--"then you don't belong on this team."

    Savard took them as far as he could. Hawks management, under the guidance of Bill Wirtz' son and successor Rocky, realized they had to take the team to the next level. Dale Tallon was given a mandate to bring in Campbell and Huet--big committments. When Scotty Bowman and Joel Quenneville came on board, Savard was obliged to step aside as coach--but he is well rewarded and respected as an Ambassador for the Blackhawks.

    This year and during the Winter Classic, the Blackhawks have showed their class and reverence for the team's heritage by honouring their legends, like Bobby Hull, Tony Esposito, Pierre Pilote, Stan Mikita and Denis Savard among others.

    This serves as a lesson and a motivation for the young guys.

    It means playing for more than your paycheque. More than statistics. More than even a Cup. It means playing 'for the Indian'. And knowing your personal best isn't good enough if your team is less than the best it can be.

    This year's team is a reward for Blackhawks fans who have been patient. But these same fans have never been shy about voicing their criticism--and showing their displeasure by speaking with their closed wallets.

    One thing is clear--the young Hawks are worthy of the tremendous support they are receiving. How far they go this season, well who knows?

    I watched the Hawks-Flames game last night (as I do every one of Chicago's games if possible). 110% effort and T-E-A-M spirit, from beginning to end, by both teams. It's no coincidence that Darryl Sutter and Mike Keenan, both former Hawks coaches, knew exactly what they would be facing.

    Having talent is something. But playing with pride means everything. 8)


    Love this but can you clarify something for me. You ripped Murray previously for not doing enough to build the right team. Then you also say that Chicago always played with the TEAM concept despite the ineptness (spelling??) of management.

    Are you saying that Ottawa has the right players but they are not playing the right TEAM game, or are you saying that the players need to be changed?

    One issue points to Murray (who remember has really just been a GM for a full season ie one draft), although he inherited a lot of the issues from poor decisions made under the management structure led by Muckler.

    The other points to the players.
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    davetherave
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by davetherave on Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:25 pm

    Dawg's Wife, the answer to your questions is no...I was simply replying to the Cap'n's questions about the Blackhawks.

    Chicago has certainly seen its share of hard times and management gaffes.

    However, from what I have observed and noted, the players, for the most part, can be said to have given their level best.

    This year's success for Chicago is, besides the good management decisions, a function of realism and the will to win worthy of this storied and proud franchise.

    There is no allusion or implication relative to the situation in Ottawa. As I stated before, IMHO as far as the Senators are concerned, Mr Murray has enough experience to know what he should do. Similarly, the players are professionals, so they should know what they have to do.


    Last edited by davetherave on Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : omission)
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    LethalLehner
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    Re: The Senators: A Tough Sell

    Post by LethalLehner on Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:00 pm

    Being a season ticket holder and having put up a lot of money this year, it is frustrating to see them lose. I think we have kind of lived in a bubble for a while now where the team has been good or great. This year and part of last year have been the hardest times for the Sens and their fans. I won't lie, I have been thinking about cancelling my season tickets but I am now starting to realize why I buy them. I love hockey and I want to support the Sens. It is easy to walk away and say that by not buying tickets you are sending a message. That is fine and each person is entitled to make their own choices. But I do have to admit that the support that the Habs and Leafs fans have for their team is awe inspiring. They may complain about the players, the organization, etc but they are always filling the arena. They support them through thick and thin. I am not saying that people here are not supporting the team, far from it, but everyone I have spoken to is not renewing their season tickets and these are not for financial reasons. It seems that any sport in Ottawa is supported when they are winning but lose a few and the support drops off..be it the Sens, the Lynx, or the Rough Riders. I for one am going to renew my seats and I might even take advantage of upgrading since it seems that there be a lot of good seats to choose from. Just my 0.02

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