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All Hockey talk all the time

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511All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:41 pm

PTFlea


Co-Founder
Co-Founder
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=793

Phoenix. Huh...who knew?

512All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:56 pm

wprager


Administrator
Administrator
Pat Burns diagnosed with cancer again Sad

513All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:59 pm

PTFlea


Co-Founder
Co-Founder
wprager wrote:Pat Burns diagnosed with cancer again Sad

Oh that's a real shame.

514All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:03 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Apparently he won't elect to do chemo this time. You use chemo when radiation (for localized treatment) won't cut it. So either it's still small and radiation will be enough, or he's had enough and this may be it.

515All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:43 pm

sennies1980

sennies1980
Prospect
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ya i was thinking the same thing wprager. lots of love to the burns family!

http://talkinghockey.wordpress.com

516All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Where's the 'mean' in this team? on Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:22 pm

davetherave

davetherave
All-Star
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I have often wondered why Ottawa doesn't have enough 'mean' players.

Even Detroit has mean. Kronwall and Stuart will mess you up.

San Jose has lots of mean. Rob Blake, Clowe, Shelley, and now Claude Lemieux.

Boston...from Tim Thomas on out...Shawn Thornton, Milan Lucic, the Z-Man...need we say more?

....and so on...

Ottawa got beat by the mean Ducks in the Cup Final.

So where's the 'mean' in the Sens team?

Anybody have any thoughts on this?
:pirat:

517All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:20 am

asq2

asq2
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Ruutu, Volchenkov, Smith, Neil, Fisher, Schubert, Phillips, Foligno, Alfredsson, Bass and Z Smith aren't mean enough for you?

I think this team is fine in terms of grit. What it lacks is over-all mobility and skill.

518All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:36 am

davetherave

davetherave
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asq2 wrote:Ruutu, Volchenkov, Smith, Neil, Fisher, Schubert, Phillips, Foligno, Alfredsson, Bass and Z Smith aren't mean enough for you?

I think this team is fine in terms of grit. What it lacks is over-all mobility and skill.

Schubert? Ruutu?

Foligno's a hard worker, but 'mean'?

Fisher, 'mean'?

Chris Neil is mean.

And I mean 'mean', like do-anything-to-kick-your-butt-out-of-the-rink-while-I-beat-you-on-the-ice 'mean'.

Chris Pronger 'mean'.

Know what I mean? Wink

519All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:46 am

asq2

asq2
All-Star
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Scary development in an AHL game:

http://www.tsn.ca/ahl/story/?id=264386&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main

Fortunately Gotz is alright.

520All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:49 am

asq2

asq2
All-Star
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davetherave wrote:
asq2 wrote:Ruutu, Volchenkov, Smith, Neil, Fisher, Schubert, Phillips, Foligno, Alfredsson, Bass and Z Smith aren't mean enough for you?

I think this team is fine in terms of grit. What it lacks is over-all mobility and skill.

Schubert? Ruutu?

Foligno's a hard worker, but 'mean'?

Fisher, 'mean'?

Chris Neil is mean.

And I mean 'mean', like do-anything-to-kick-your-butt-out-of-the-rink-while-I-beat-you-on-the-ice 'mean'.

Chris Pronger 'mean'.

Know what I mean? Wink

I'd say we're pretty mean. Fisher, Neil, Volchenkov and Schubert are great hitters who will sometimes cross the line. Alfredsson, too, and he'll hit you with a puck as well. Then we've got Spezza spearing people and Sharko Ruutu.

I'd say we're mean enough. Kronwall and Stuart are hitters, they're not Chris Prongers though.

Chicago is another team that doesn't really have mean-ness but succeeds.

I'd much prefer targetting skill and speed than more intangibles.

Because, right now our results are intangible.

521All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:00 am

Guest


Guest
asq2 wrote:Scary development in an AHL game:

http://www.tsn.ca/ahl/story/?id=264386&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_main

Fortunately Gotz is alright.

No kidding. In the video the opposing fighter watched from the penalty box looking terrified.

This is another blow to fighting. It seems to me that it is inevitable that fighting is removed from the game. I just wonder if it will do more harm than good. On one hand you protect guys from injury (and potentially death), but on the other hand it may open the door for more gutless actions otherwise. It's only a matter of time before an NHLer is paralyzed during the course of a game. The game is already dangerous enough as it is with pucks being shot harder than ever, and equipment that acts as a weapon in some cases. This isn't just fighting. If the league wants to protect it's player, it needs to look at all aspects.

522All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:06 am

asq2

asq2
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Personally, I like fighting but hate these staged fights.

Richards fighting Perry in an OHL play-off game is a good fight. Iginla fighting Lecavalier is a good fight.

But not enforcer v. enforcer.

523All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:08 am

asq2

asq2
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Of course, I say that and the realize that I consider McSorley v Probert a great hockey moment. :oops:

But nowadays, I have difficulty with guys who are just trying to earn their paychecks by fighting. This one was off of what, the first face-off of the game?

524All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:43 am

Guest


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asq2 wrote:Of course, I say that and the realize that I consider McSorley v Probert a great hockey moment. :oops:

But nowadays, I have difficulty with guys who are just trying to earn their paychecks by fighting. This one was off of what, the first face-off of the game?

First face off? Brutal. I guess someone sneezed in someone else's direction in the pre game warm up.

I agree that today's enforcers (post instigator rule) serve no purpose. These staged fights might as well be choreographed with music and a lightshow. Pre-instigator they served a purpose. Get out of line and risk getting you're Dung wrecked. There is none of that in today's game. Hell even a big clean hit typically gathers a crowd and at least one player going after the "offender". There are a whole lot more "tough" guys it seems now that they know that they probably won't have to answer for it.

525All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:15 am

davetherave

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All-Star
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asq2 wrote:[

I'd say we're pretty mean. Fisher, Neil, Volchenkov and Schubert are great hitters who will sometimes cross the line. Alfredsson, too, and he'll hit you with a puck as well. Then we've got Spezza spearing people and Sharko Ruutu.

I'd say we're mean enough. Kronwall and Stuart are hitters, they're not Chris Prongers though.

Chicago is another team that doesn't really have mean-ness but succeeds.

I'd much prefer targetting skill and speed than more intangibles.

Because, right now our results are intangible.

Sharkko Ruutu :lol!:

I watch pretty much all of the Hawks games...and the difference between them and the Sens is that the Chicago kids all stand up for each other. Ben Eager and Big Buf will nail anybody who comes near Kane.

They are also just getting to know how good they really are, and dealing with the adversity that comes with success. But they are hungry, and they'll fight with you.

My point was that the Senators don't seem to have that edginess this year, that 'hate to lose' mindset. How often have you seen Chris Neil drop the gloves just to get his mates going? It has to be more than him...at least kids like Bass and Foligno have that gutsiness.

Not saying that fighting is a prerequisite...but opponents have to know they can't push you around.

The Sens need a Lucic or Hartnell IMHO.

You look at the Habs as a skill team, but they have nasties like Komisarek, Begin, Kostopoulos and of course Big Georges.

Even Vinnie Lecavalier will mix it up...but when was the last time you saw Jason Spezza drop the mitts?

Maybe the Sens need Claude Lemieux...he's a Buckingham boy. Wink

526All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:47 pm

asq2

asq2
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Spezza dropped the gloves against Markov last season.

The non-"hate to lose mentality" is in part because they simply can't do anything about their losing because they're not good enough to win.

Give them more skill and speed, and the swagger returns and then that stuff will happen more.

527All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:48 pm

asq2

asq2
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Also, I'll take Smith, Volchenkov, Ruutu, Neil etc. over Kostopoulos, Begin, Laraques and Komisarek.

I think you're under-rating the Sens in terms of grit.

528All Hockey talk all the time - Page 35 Empty Re: All Hockey talk all the time on Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:11 pm

davetherave

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asq2 wrote:Also, I'll take Smith, Volchenkov, Ruutu, Neil etc. over Kostopoulos, Begin, Laraques and Komisarek.

I think you're under-rating the Sens in terms of grit.

Not at all...I was just speaking to your point about 'skill teams'. No question that Smith, Volchenkov, and Neil among others have toughness. Jarkko Ruutu IMHO is mostly mouth (and teeth) so far as a Sen LOL...but let's give him a pass.

As for the word 'grit' as well as the overused 'sandpaper', what do those really mean?

Michel Bergeron often talks about 'team toughness', and the question is, do the Senators have 'team toughness'?

That toughness is the mentality that says, 'I don't care if your team has more talent, I'm going to make you earn this game'. It's a culture that says to the opponent that whatever the result, they will leave the rink 'black and blue', mentally and physically, for their trouble. It's the mentality that says, 'My stats mean nothing if my team doesn't win.'

Wouldn't you agree the Senators have shown a lack of 'team toughness' more than once this season?

Again, this is not a knock on the players...as you say, there is a talent gap there. But don't you think there needs to be a culture of 'team toughness' implemented in order for the Senators to progress?

When Bryan Murray said he wanted to make the Senators 'tougher to play against', he didn't just mean that getting Smith and Ruutu were the solution. He meant that he wanted the entire team to be mentally tougher--including being more disciplined and accountable--and physically tougher.

Guy Carbonneau went through this in Montreal earlier this year when he called out his players for their lack of team toughness.

Claude Julien and Todd McLellan, to name two, constantly preach--and enforce--team toughness.

Looking forward, as always, to this discussion.

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