2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

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    PKC
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    2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by PKC on Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:45 pm

    Name{Position}*/ (cap hit)

    Heatley{LW/RW}* (7.5) - Spezza{C}* (7) - Alfredsson{LW/RW}* (4.339)
    Winchester{C} (0.55) - Fisher{C}* (4.2) - Vermette{C/LW}* (2.763)
    Foligno{LW} (0.85) - Kelly{C}* (2.125) - McAmmond{C}* (0.875)
    Ruutu{LW}* (1.3) - Bass{C} (0.513) - Neil{RW}* (1.1)

    Donovan{RW} (0.6) - [potential press-box body]
    Potential Total cap hit for forwards - 33.715

    Nikulin{C} (0.833)/Zubov{C} (0.85) - [minor league call-ups]

    Phillips{DFD}* (3.5) - Lee{OFD}* (1.275)
    Volchenkov{DFD}* (2.5) - Kuba{OFD}* (3)
    Smith{DFD}* (2.6) - Schubert{OFD}* (0.883)

    Nycholat{OFD} (0.55)/ Picard{OFD} (0.800) - [one-way contracts; potential for Nycholat to be moved if Schubert earns final defenseman position]
    Potential Total cap hit for defensemen - 14.308

    Bell{OFD} (0.5)/Carkner{DFD} (0.5) - [minor league call-ups]

    Gerber{G}* (3.7)
    Auld{G}* (1)

    Elliott{G} (0.942)/Glass{G} (0.55) - [minor league call-ups]

    Emery (0.479) - [first year amount of buyout]
    Total cap hit for goaltenders (including buyout) - 5.179

    Potential Total cap hit for 2008-09 roster - 53.202
    Potential remaining cap space - 3.498

    PP1:
    Heatley - Spezza - Alfredsson
    Kuba - Schubert

    PP2:
    Fisher - Vermette - Foligno
    Picard -Lee

    PK1:
    Vermette-Kelly
    Phillips-Volchenkov

    PK2:
    Fisher - Alfredsson
    Smith-Schubert

    Three-Man Penalty Kill:
    Alfredsson
    PhillipsVolchenkov


    A (*) denotes that a player is a guarantee to make the full-time NHL roster for the 2008-09 season.
    A ( ) denotes that a player is fairly likely to make the full-time NHL roster for the 2008-09 season given available roster positions.

    Roster Movements:
    1. McAmmond and Bass are highlighted due to the uncertain nature surrounding the extra forward position. If the Senators do not find it prudent to carry an extra forward at all times, one of two things may occur:

    a) Bass is sent down to the Binghamton Senators and would join Zubov and Nikulin on the call-up list. McAmmond would move down to the fourth line center position.
    b) McAmmond could be traded. Ruutu would move up to the third line and Donovan would take his position on the fourth.

    2. Another possibility is that Schubert does not earn the final defenseman position and is moved back up to the forward ranks. From here, there are several possibilites including the demotion of players on two-way contracts, the trading of a minor roster player to make a position available, or the movement of Schubert in a trade.

    3. There is clearly an issue with the second unit powerplay in that there is no defenseman that is a powerplay asset. Hartsburg might choose to employ four forwards and a defenseman but that would leave a forward at the top of the blueline to quarterback the powerplay. I can't envision any of the forwards on that unit playing the point, so I believe there might either be a scenario where another defenseman is brought in, or Nycholat is in fact pencilled in to the lineup, and Schubert is moved up to the wing.

    ***All numbers taken from nhlscap.com


    Last edited by PKC on Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by Guest on Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:47 pm

    PKC wrote:Name{Position}*/+ (cap hit)

    Heatley{LW/RW}* (7.5) - Spezza{C}* (7) - Alfredsson{LW/RW}* (4.339)
    Winchester{C}+ (0.55) - Fisher{C}* (4.2) - Vermette{C/LW}* (2.763)
    Foligno{LW}+ (0.85) - Kelly{C}* (2.125) - McAmmond{C}* (0.875)
    Ruutu{LW}* (1.3) - Bass{C}+ (0.513) - Neil{RW}* (1.1)

    Donovan{RW}+ (0.6) - [potential press-box body]
    Potential Total cap hit for forwards - 33.715

    Nikulin{C} (0.833)/Zubov{C} (0.85) - [minor league call-ups]

    Phillips{DFD}* (3.5) - Lee{OFD}* (1.275)
    Volchenkov{DFD}* (2.5) - Kuba{OFD}* (3)
    Smith{DFD}* (2.6) - Schubert{OFD}* (0.883)

    Nycholat{OFD} (0.55) - [one-way contract; potential to be moved if Schubert earns final defenseman position]
    Potential Total cap hit for defensemen - 14.308

    Picard{OFD} (0.800)/Bell{OFD} (0.5)/Carkner{DFD} (0.5) - [minor league call-ups]

    Gerber{G}* (3.7)
    Auld{G}* (1)

    Elliott{G} (0.942)/Glass{G} (0.55) - [minor league call-ups]

    Emery (0.479) - [first year amount of buyout]
    Total cap hit for goaltenders (including buyout) - 5.179

    Potential Total cap hit for 2008-09 roster - 53.202
    Potential remaining cap space - 3.498

    PP1:
    Heatley - Spezza - Alfredsson
    Kuba - Lee

    PP2:
    Fisher - Vermette - Foligno
    Schubert - Nycholat

    PK1:
    Vermette-Kelly
    Phillips-Volchenkov

    PK2:
    Fisher - Alfredsson
    Smith-Schubert

    Three-Man Penalty Kill:
    Alfredsson
    PhillipsVolchenkov


    A (*) denotes that a player is a guarantee to make the full-time NHL roster for the 2008-09 season.
    A (+) denotes that a player is fairly likely to make the full-time NHL roster for the 2008-09 season given available roster positions.

    Roster Movements:
    1. McAmmond and Bass are highlighted due to the uncertain nature surrounding the extra forward position. If the Senators do not find it prudent to carry an extra forward at all times, one of two things may occur:

    a) Bass is sent down to the Binghamton Senators and would join Zubov and Nikulin on the call-up list. McAmmond would move down to the fourth line center position.
    b) McAmmond could be traded. Ruutu would move up to the third line and Donovan would take his position on the fourth.

    2. Another possibility is that Schubert does not earn the final defenseman position and is moved back up to the forward ranks. From here, there are several possibilites including the demotion of players on two-way contracts, the trading of a minor roster player to make a position available, or the movement of Schubert in a trade.

    3. There is clearly an issue with the second unit powerplay in that there is no defenseman that is a powerplay asset. Hartsburg might choose to employ four forwards and a defenseman but that would leave a forward at the top of the blueline to quarterback the powerplay. I can't envision any of the forwards on that unit playing the point, so I believe there might either be a scenario where another defenseman is brought in, or Nycholat is in fact pencilled in to the lineup, and Schubert is moved up to the wing.

    ***All numbers taken from nhlscap.com
    Nice post. You've obviously put a lot of work into it and it looks solid, for sure.

    Just two notes on the special teams:
    As likely as it is to see that 1st PP unit, I have to expect/hope that we'll try one of either Heatley or Alfredsson on that back point and have Fisher/Vermette move to the wing on the 1st unit.
    Should that happen, I would expect Lee and Schubert to man the point with Fisher/Vermette centering Foligno and Winchester/McAmmond.

    Absolutely: The first PK unit is likely to remain intact, but I have to suspect that Alfredsson will be given a break from PK work.
    As I've pointed out to many people, when discussing this subject, Alfie isn't getting any younger and is still our franchise player and a top point-getter. We also have an abundance of penalty killing forwards: Vermette, Kelly, Fisher, Ruutu, Donovan, McAmmond/Bass (assuming one will be here and one will not), Heatley, and even Spezza wants to bring that added dimension (although wanting and doing are two very different things)
    And who knows if Foligno or Winchester are capable...
    The point is its best to save Alfies energy for when the game is on the line and not burden him with added work without the puck. We may lose out on a few shorthanded goals, but I believe it will benefit us overall and in the long run.
    Also, I think Fisher-Ruutu would be an awesome combo, similar to that of Malone-Ruutu, last season in Pittsburgh.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by PKC on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:00 pm

    Hmm, interesting point, but I just can't see Heatley playing the point.
    Basically, the setup would look like this?


    PP1:
    Alfredsson-Spezza-Vermette
    Heatley-Kuba
    PP2:
    Fisher-Foligno-Winchester
    Lee-Schubert

    I don't know about that. I don't think powerplay setups are as successful for teams when they have a forward playing the point. You need defensemen with heavy shots and the ability to recover to their position rather than forwards who's main powerplay focus is to get closer to the net and generate scoring opportunities.

    As for the PK, I could see Alfredsson not having to play full time penalty killing duties. The setups are more or less first choice players for those particular units. Our defensive depth this year is severely understated in my opinion.

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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by Guest on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:13 pm

    PKC wrote:Hmm, interesting point, but I just can't see Heatley playing the point.
    Basically, the setup would look like this?


    PP1:
    Alfredsson-Spezza-Vermette
    Heatley-Kuba
    PP2:
    Fisher-Foligno-Winchester
    Lee-Schubert

    I don't know about that. I don't think powerplay setups are as successful for teams when they have a forward playing the point. You need defensemen with heavy shots and the ability to recover to their position rather than forwards who's main powerplay focus is to get closer to the net and generate scoring opportunities.

    As for the PK, I could see Alfredsson not having to play full time penalty killing duties. The setups are more or less first choice players for those particular units. Our defensive depth this year is severely understated in my opinion.
    Likewise; I think that is the most overlooked aspect of this team. I look at the roster and there isn't really one player I wouldn't trust with the puck at the end of the game (although McAmmond has made me wonder, in the past...)
    You're right that Heatley looks a little out of place there, on the PP. I think it was more Alfredsson, who I had in mind.
    Heatley - Spezza - Fisher
    Afredsson - Kuba
    (looks Dangerous)
    Foligno - Vermette - Winchester
    Schubert - Lee

    Although, looking at that, I think you're right about Vermette fitting better on the 1st unit, while Fisher joins the other two power forwards on the 2nd unit.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by Riprock on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:38 pm

    I just have to say that scratching Donovan would be a huge insult to him after he just re-signed for two more years.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by rooneypoo on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:49 pm

    DashRiprock wrote:I just have to say that scratching Donovan would be a huge insult to him after he just re-signed for two more years.

    Agreed.

    Unfortunate as it might seem, I think Bass might not make this team if we don't make any other moves and open up a roster spot.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by PKC on Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:57 pm

    DashRiprock wrote:I just have to say that scratching Donovan would be a huge insult to him after he just re-signed for two more years.

    I agree as well, but there may be an understanding as the point of that signing that Donovan might be an extra body some nights.
    I, on the other hand, foresee a very minor trade and am still positive that McAmmond is of no service to this team anymore. He's a dime a dozen player and any 'intangibles' he brings to the table can be recuperated through other bodies on our roster. Plus, I firmly believe that Bass is a much, much better fourth line center rather than McAmmond. The kid hustles, gets his nose dirty, and brings his lunch-pail to work; he can kill penalties and score the odd goal and he isn't afraid to mix it up with anyone.

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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by Guest on Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:01 pm

    PKC wrote:
    DashRiprock wrote:I just have to say that scratching Donovan would be a huge insult to him after he just re-signed for two more years.

    I agree as well, but there may be an understanding as the point of that signing that Donovan might be an extra body some nights.
    I, on the other hand, foresee a very minor trade and am still positive that McAmmond is of no service to this team anymore. He's a dime a dozen player and any 'intangibles' he brings to the table can be recuperated through other bodies on our roster. Plus, I firmly believe that Bass is a much, much better fourth line center rather than McAmmond. The kid hustles, gets his nose dirty, and brings his lunch-pail to work; he can kill penalties and score the odd goal and he isn't afraid to mix it up with anyone.
    I think McAmmond as a lot of those same qualities you've listed. Regardless, I agree with you that he is a fairly redundant player.
    I appreciate all that McAmmond brought to this team, but I think his time here is done.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by PKC on Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:42 pm

    Some new information has come up with regards to Picard's contract situation, so there have been some changes made to the overall structure of my layout. Tomorrow, I will most likely re-do the layout again to reflect the changes and offer the most likely candidates to be moved in a trade.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by Riprock on Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:33 am

    I'd say that unfortunately, the likely player to go is McAmmond. Murray honoured Muckler's extension prior to his firing and he's not the same person he was before the cheap shots. It wouldn't be fair to scratch him the entire season or for the majority of it.

    As I said, Donovan wouldn't agree to stay here just to sit in the press box.

    My likely lines would look like:

    Foligno-Spezza-Heatley
    Vermette-Fisher-Alfredsson
    Winchester*-Kelly-Neil
    Ruutu-Bass-Donovan
    *McAmmond

    Volxhenkov-Philips
    Lee-Kuba
    Smith-Schubert/Picard*

    Gerber
    Auld

    * Winchester would play if Schubert is dressed on D; if Schubert isn't on D, he'll likely be a FWD/7th D, scratched, or traded in a package with McAmmond + to clear room.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by rooneypoo on Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:48 am

    DashRiprock wrote:I'd say that unfortunately, the likely player to go is McAmmond. Murray honoured Muckler's extension prior to his firing and he's not the same person he was before the cheap shots. It wouldn't be fair to scratch him the entire season or for the majority of it.

    As I said, Donovan wouldn't agree to stay here just to sit in the press box.

    My likely lines would look like:

    Foligno-Spezza-Heatley
    Vermette-Fisher-Alfredsson
    Winchester*-Kelly-Neil
    Ruutu-Bass-Donovan
    *McAmmond

    Volxhenkov-Philips
    Lee-Kuba
    Smith-Schubert/Picard*

    Gerber
    Auld

    * Winchester would play if Schubert is dressed on D; if Schubert isn't on D, he'll likely be a FWD/7th D, scratched, or traded in a package with McAmmond + to clear room.

    Winchester will NOT be traded anytime soon. He signed with us as a very highly-touted and highly-sought-after prospect back in March, and then re-signed with us on a 1-way deal in May. I'm pretty certain that he's going to get a shot with this team, quite possibly in our top 6, but we can't know that for sure, I grant.

    I agree, tho', that it would appear that McAmmond and Nycholat are early favourites to be traded in the very near future. What happens on D -- does Schubert or Picard take that 6th spot? -- will determine whether or not Bass has a spot, I think. If Schubert gets it and we keep Picard around as a 7th D, then Bass should make the line-up; if Picard takes it and Schubert shifts to the wing, I'm not sure I see room for him.

    What's really odd in all that is that if we trade McAmmond and fail to make room for Bass, we lose both candidates for 4th line centre... which doesn't seem to make compete sense either. Presumably, then, one or the other will be on our roster come October.

    The problem is that we currently have 12 F (counting Schubert) and 6 D on 1-way deals, plus 3 more players on 2-way, entry-level deals (Lee, Foligno, and Bass) who are pushing for roster spots. How many players we have to move will ultimately depend on how many of those rookies we have to accommodate in our line up. If all 3, then I imagine we move at least 2 contracts, and possibly carry Picard as our 7th D. Judging from the criteria on pp.66-67 of the CBA, I don't think Picard can safely pass through waivers anymore (unlike Winchester) because of his age, seasons accrued, and games played, so I imagine we would have to carry him all year if we ever wanted to play him on anything other than an emergency recall basis.

    All this to say: if all 3 rookies crack the line-up, I think our roster will look pretty much exactly as you have it listed, but with Picard as our 7th D. Smile
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by PKC on Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:45 am

    Well someone has to be moved. Maybe even two people if I'm looking at my team layout correctly. It would seem at the very least that Nycholat is going to be traded with Picard taking Schubert's spot as the 6th defenseman and Bell becoming the first call-up in that situation.

    Schubert moves up to the forward rank and replaces McAmmond on their third line to play with Foligno and Kelly. Then again, Schubert could be moved along with Nycholat.

    In conclusion, I have no idea. The only thing I do know is that we have too many players right now and not enough spots.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by Money Farmer on Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:53 am

    PKC,

    Great post!

    I agree with 95% of your thoughts. The more I look at our lineup, th more I realiza that Schubert needs to move to the wing, McA gets shipped out for a box of pucks & Nycholat makes the jump to the show. His moving up does two key things: gives us more offensive flair on the second powerplay & makes a forward position available for Cody Bass (who earned it last season).
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by PKC on Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:59 am

    Money Farmer wrote:PKC,

    Great post!

    I agree with 95% of your thoughts. The more I look at our lineup, th more I realiza that Schubert needs to move to the wing, McA gets shipped out for a box of pucks & Nycholat makes the jump to the show. His moving up does two key things: gives us more offensive flair on the second powerplay & makes a forward position available for Cody Bass (who earned it last season).

    Yeah, but I'd assume given Picard's 1-way contract and that Murray apparently asked for him that he'd have the inside track on the 6th defenseman position. Whether Nycholat is kept around as a healthy scratch, I don't know, but I can't see him getting that final spot ahead of Picard. I'd also like to see Cody Bass stay up with the big club, I just can't see how you'd want to pass up on a Neil-Bass-Ruutu line.
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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

    Post by Money Farmer on Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:13 pm

    Neil-Bass-Ruutu = HAVOC

    Bringin It!

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    Re: 2008-09 Ottawa Senators Team

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