Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

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    rooneypoo
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:54 am

    Cap'n' Clutch wrote:Here's my lineup with the premis that Murray is able to trade a couple spare parts away from the team.

    Fisher----Spezza----Heatley

    Foligno---Vermette---Alfie

    Neil------Kelly-------Ruutu

    Donovan---Bass-----McAmmond

    Phillips----Kuba

    Volchenkov---Lee

    Smith--------Picard

    Bell & Carkner for callups

    Winchester - In the minors - Keep in mind this is only because I'm assuming he's not going to be good enough to make the team AND if it were me I'd rather he play ~65 games in Bingo and ~17 games through callups instead of ~65 games in the press box and the rest on the ice in the NHL. I think if he isn't good enough to make the team the best way to develop his skills and get used to playing 82 games a season is to play 82 games and not sit in the press box but that's just my opinion and I know there are others who strongly disagree. I'm also assuming Melnyk agrees with that because he's the one signing the NHL salary over to Winchester to play in Bingo.

    Nycholat - Traded for a low level draft pick - I know many don't believe it's possible but I'm going on the assumption that this can be done.

    McAmmond - Same comments as Nycholat.

    A couple of points on this:

    -- I'm not sure if Winchester making the team is just a matter of opinion at this point. He's on a 1-way deal, and Murray has said a few times now that he expects him to play on the 2nd line -- two factors that suggest we should expect him to start with the club. Whether he can stay there, or on the club for that matter, will depend on how he does; and Bingo at some point this season isn't, I grant, an impossibility -- but I don't think he'll start there and will have every opportunity to stay with the big club all year. Keep your hopes up for Winchester: remember that Murray has a knack for pulling gems out of college, and the Winchester was the most sought-after prospect coming out of college last year.

    -- I don't think Fisher will play wing. I'd love to see it, because the guy's a wrecking ball and can cause havok, but it seems like he's just not comfortable there.

    -- You've got McAmmond listed as traded but also on the 4th line, and no Schubert anywhere. I assume that's a typo and you intended to have Schubert play 4th line winger, yes? If so, do you think he'll settle for that role again? And what of the reports that suggest that Schubert has been promised more time on D?

    http://sensarmy.blogspot.com/2008/08/schuberts-off-season.html

    -- I think we should be able to get a little something for Nycholat as long as we package him with something a little more attractive. If McAmmond isn't enough, then it might be Neil or Schubert, depending on the other team's needs and what we have in store for those two. Some combo of 2 of those guys plus a pick/prospect could land us something very nice indeed.

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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:28 am

    All good points rooneypoo. I just don't want to get my hopes up too high because Winchester's coming out of college and they don't play a lot of games there so, that alone gives me pause. I'd love for him to come in as a top six and stick.

    As to McAmmond and Schubert, thank you I fixed it.

    I also want to say that if this lineup was meant to be a prediction of what will happen then I would have a drastically different looking lineup. This is just what I personally would do with the roster if I were GM. I could also see moving Schubert as well and making room for Winchester because I don't like the idea of putting Schubert on wing and If I had to choose between Picard or Schubert on D I'd pick Picard.

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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:36 am

    Some interesting analysis from KLee on the log-jam at D and the possible fates of Schubert, Neil, and McAmmond:

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16618

    Probably his best article in 2 months, even if he doesn't bring us any closer to an answer.
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:37 am

    I will toss my cookies all over the place if a 6'3", 240 lbs wrecking ball who can play both D and F fairly well and is at a cap hit of 880K is traded.

    There's no logic in that from a GMs POV.

    But...it's what the return is I guess.
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:41 am

    rooneypoo wrote:Some interesting analysis from KLee on the log-jam at D and the possible fates of Schubert, Neil, and McAmmond:

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16618

    Probably his best article in 2 months, even if he doesn't bring us any closer to an answer.

    Am I the only one who strongly feels that we've been saying the same thing here since the site first opened?

    Either we're way ahead of the game, or K.Lee's way behind...and we probably know the answer to that. :D
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:57 am

    504Heater wrote:I will toss my cookies all over the place if a 6'3", 240 lbs wrecking ball who can play both D and F fairly well and is at a cap hit of 880K is traded.

    There's no logic in that from a GMs POV.

    But...it's what the return is I guess.

    What if, say, Schubert + Neil/McAmmond/Nycholat + pick/prospect got you, say, Frolov in return, who has 2 years left with at a very friendly price ($2.9 mil)? From the looks of things, LA desperate needs a good defensive D, and rumours about Frolov being up on the trading block have been circulating for months and just won't seem to go away. I mean, for the sake of argument, IF we got that return, would you complain?

    Don't worry about LA's "cap floor" issues at the moment, btw. They've still got 3 unsigned RFAs, 2 being Stoll and O'Sullivan, who I think while combine for something like $6-7 mil in salary when it's all said and done. I'm not convinced that LA won't sign or trade for another goalie, too. Bernier's not ready, and the Labarbera/Ersberg duo is essentially 2 OK backups fighting for a #1 spot.

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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by Guest on Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:01 am

    504Heater wrote:
    rooneypoo wrote:Some interesting analysis from KLee on the log-jam at D and the possible fates of Schubert, Neil, and McAmmond:

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16618

    Probably his best article in 2 months, even if he doesn't bring us any closer to an answer.

    Am I the only one who strongly feels that we've been saying the same thing here since the site first opened?

    Either we're way ahead of the game, or K.Lee's way behind...and we probably know the answer to that. :D
    KLee dropping the ball? affraid surely you jest?
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by PKC on Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:28 am

    rooneypoo wrote:
    504Heater wrote:I will toss my cookies all over the place if a 6'3", 240 lbs wrecking ball who can play both D and F fairly well and is at a cap hit of 880K is traded.

    There's no logic in that from a GMs POV.

    But...it's what the return is I guess.

    What if, say, Schubert + Neil/McAmmond/Nycholat + pick/prospect got you, say, Frolov in return, who has 2 years left with at a very friendly price ($2.9 mil)? From the looks of things, LA desperate needs a good defensive D, and rumours about Frolov being up on the trading block have been circulating for months and just won't seem to go away. I mean, for the sake of argument, IF we got that return, would you complain?

    Don't worry about LA's "cap floor" issues at the moment, btw. They've still got 3 unsigned RFAs, 2 being Stoll and O'Sullivan, who I think while combine for something like $6-7 mil in salary when it's all said and done. I'm not convinced that LA won't sign or trade for another goalie, too. Bernier's not ready, and the Labarbera/Ersberg duo is essentially 2 OK backups fighting for a #1 spot.

    I wouldn't mind sending Gerber their way in a package if we could acquire another goalie in the process not named Khabibulin.
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:29 am

    rooneypoo wrote:
    What if, say, Schubert + Neil/McAmmond/Nycholat + pick/prospect got you, say, Frolov in return, who has 2 years left with at a very friendly price ($2.9 mil)? From the looks of things, LA desperate needs a good defensive D, and rumours about Frolov being up on the trading block have been circulating for months and just won't seem to go away. I mean, for the sake of argument, IF we got that return, would you complain?

    Don't worry about LA's "cap floor" issues at the moment, btw. They've still got 3 unsigned RFAs, 2 being Stoll and O'Sullivan, who I think while combine for something like $6-7 mil in salary when it's all said and done. I'm not convinced that LA won't sign or trade for another goalie, too. Bernier's not ready, and the Labarbera/Ersberg duo is essentially 2 OK backups fighting for a #1 spot.

    Yes please!
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by jamvan on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:00 pm

    PICARD:
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:00 pm

    PKC wrote:

    I wouldn't mind sending Gerber their way in a package if we could acquire another goalie in the process not named Khabibulin.

    There aren't many decent goalies available after Khabby (but I'm totally agreed: I don't want him and his ridiculous salary anywhere near our team). Here's a list of candidates that I could think of:

    1) Lehtonen. Signed a 1-year deal as an RFA, looks like he's on his way out, especially with Pavelec in the pipeline. ATL could certainly use a defensive D and all the scoring help they can get, and would probably want Gerber in return to fill in for the year. Schubert + Gerber + another piece [prospect/1st round pick?] might land us him. Looking things over, he's the best candidate for sure, if ATL is willing to move him, given ATL's needs and what OTT has to offer. ATL might well want a bigger piece than we can offer (i.e., Vermette) if they want roster players, tho'.

    2) Backstrom. 1 year left on his deal, Harding (their future #1) pretty much ready to to go, Backstrom not likely to be with the team after this year. MIN would want offence and not D as the centrepiece, however, as they're already stacked at D. Unless we're willing to move someone like Vermette, I can't see a deal here. Backstrom is cheaper and better than Gerber, too, and MIN is tight up against the cap, so I definitely can't see a deal here.

    3) Legace. 1 year left on his deal, Mason brought in this off-season, injury-prone but cheap. STL can use help up front and on the backend, so a guy like Schubert might be desirable. I'm not too sure that they'd take Gerber back in return, however, and that's a real dilemma for us. I can't see us getting another goalie without sending Gerber the other way. If a buyout was an option, I think it would have happened before now.

    4) Fernandez. Last year of his big $4+ mil deal, oft-injured, big bust since he got to Boston, already has Thomas in front of him and Rask coming up behind him. If they were shopping him, he could be had for relatively cheap -- but they wouldn't take Gerber off our hands. I don't think BOS would want any players coming back, in fact, just picks/prospects, given that they'd have to call up Rask (who's on a big $3 mil deal), a surplus of roster players, a limited cap space. BOS doesn't look like a good fit for these reasons.

    5) Roloson. Don't need him, don't want him. He's Gerber light, but more injury prone, older, and worse. And EDM wouldn't take Gerber off our hands. Pass all around.

    There's no other starting / former starting goalie in the NHL that I can think of who might be available. If Lehtonen is available, then I say make a pitch for sure and see what ATL wants, but otherwise I don't see a viable option.
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:03 pm

    jamvan wrote:PICARD:

    That I like to see. Smile

    I was reading up on Chris Nichols's overview of the trade at Sportsnet.ca, and he was talking about this hit, too. I hope there's more where that came from.

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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by Guest on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:09 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    PKC wrote:

    I wouldn't mind sending Gerber their way in a package if we could acquire another goalie in the process not named Khabibulin.

    There aren't many decent goalies available after Khabby (but I'm totally agreed: I don't want him and his ridiculous salary anywhere near our team). Here's a list of candidates that I could think of:

    1) Lehtonen. Signed a 1-year deal as an RFA, looks like he's on his way out, especially with Pavelec in the pipeline. ATL could certainly use a defensive D and all the scoring help they can get, and would probably want Gerber in return to fill in for the year. Schubert + Gerber + another piece [prospect/1st round pick?] might land us him. Looking things over, he's the best candidate for sure, if ATL is willing to move him, given ATL's needs and what OTT has to offer. ATL might well want a bigger piece than we can offer (i.e., Vermette) if they want roster players, tho'.

    2) Backstrom. 1 year left on his deal, Harding (their future #1) pretty much ready to to go, Backstrom not likely to be with the team after this year. MIN would want offence and not D as the centrepiece, however, as they're already stacked at D. Unless we're willing to move someone like Vermette, I can't see a deal here. Backstrom is cheaper and better than Gerber, too, and MIN is tight up against the cap, so I definitely can't see a deal here.

    3) Legace. 1 year left on his deal, Mason brought in this off-season, injury-prone but cheap. STL can use help up front and on the backend, so a guy like Schubert might be desirable. I'm not too sure that they'd take Gerber back in return, however, and that's a real dilemma for us. I can't see us getting another goalie without sending Gerber the other way. If a buyout was an option, I think it would have happened before now.

    4) Fernandez. Last year of his big $4+ mil deal, oft-injured, big bust since he got to Boston, already has Thomas in front of him and Rask coming up behind him. If they were shopping him, he could be had for relatively cheap -- but they wouldn't take Gerber off our hands. I don't think BOS would want any players coming back, in fact, just picks/prospects, given that they'd have to call up Rask (who's on a big $3 mil deal), a surplus of roster players, a limited cap space. BOS doesn't look like a good fit for these reasons.

    5) Roloson. Don't need him, don't want him. He's Gerber light, but more injury prone, older, and worse. And EDM wouldn't take Gerber off our hands. Pass all around.

    There's no other starting / former starting goalie in the NHL that I can think of who might be available. If Lehtonen is available, then I say make a pitch for sure and see what ATL wants, but otherwise I don't see a viable option.
    Lehtonen- Injury prone, but huge potential

    Backstrom-I'm not sold on him. even still too hard to acquire

    Legace- too small, but loved to have him back up Elliott

    Fernandez- pricy, injury prone, unproven

    Rolston- Too pricy, couldn't stop a beach ball
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by PKC on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:12 pm

    You know for a market over-saturated with goalies, there don't seem to be a lot of quality ones.
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:15 pm

    jamvan wrote:PICARD:

    Oh Nelly! Lovely.

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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by Guest on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:15 pm

    PKC wrote:You know for a market over-saturated with goalies, there don't seem to be a lot of quality ones.
    Leclair? depends on how mason is developing
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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:29 pm

    Tukker wrote:
    PKC wrote:You know for a market over-saturated with goalies, there don't seem to be a lot of quality ones.
    Leclair? depends on how mason is developing

    Mason is still a few years off for sure. I don't see Leclaire going anywhere now, especially after signing a new long-term deal last month.

    No, if we're actually serious about looking for a replacement for Gerber, I think the only viable option is Lehtonen. He may or may not be available, and I imagine we'd pay through the nose for him -- but I'd be willing to do it if the price were right. I'd start with Schubert + Gerber + 1st (ours or SJS's) and see where we go from there. If they want a prospect, too, I throw in Hennessy. If they start asking for Zubov, I'd probably balk. If they need scoring help immediately and everything turns on Vermette, then I'd probably have to say no.

    I don't think that our goaltending situation is so desperate that we have to give up any key pieces (like Zubov, Vermette, etc.). And that's probably why, in the end, we won't get a deal done before the start of the season.

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    Re: Write out your 2008/2009 Ottawa Senators lineup

    Post by Guest on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:43 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Tukker wrote:
    PKC wrote:You know for a market over-saturated with goalies, there don't seem to be a lot of quality ones.
    Leclair? depends on how mason is developing

    Mason is still a few years off for sure. I don't see Leclaire going anywhere now, especially after signing a new long-term deal last month.

    No, if we're actually serious about looking for a replacement for Gerber, I think the only viable option is Lehtonen. He may or may not be available, and I imagine we'd pay through the nose for him -- but I'd be willing to do it if the price were right. I'd start with Schubert + Gerber + 1st (ours or SJS's) and see where we go from there. If they want a prospect, too, I throw in Hennessy. If they start asking for Zubov, I'd probably balk. If they need scoring help immediately and everything turns on Vermette, then I'd probably have to say no.

    I don't think that our goaltending situation is so desperate that we have to give up any key pieces (like Zubov, Vermette, etc.). And that's probably why, in the end, we won't get a deal done before the start of the season.
    still cant believe how cheap leclair signed for

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