GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

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    asq2
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by asq2 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:10 pm

    Green obviously wins this, but he's so close to a 4th winger that it's almost hard for me to call him a defenceman.

    Andrei Markov comes 2nd IMO.

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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by davetherave on Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:29 pm

    asq2 wrote:Green obviously wins this, but he's so close to a 4th winger that it's almost hard for me to call him a defenceman.

    Andrei Markov comes 2nd IMO.

    No consideration of Scott Niedermayer or Brian Rafalski?

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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by asq2 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:36 pm

    davetherave wrote:
    asq2 wrote:Green obviously wins this, but he's so close to a 4th winger that it's almost hard for me to call him a defenceman.

    Andrei Markov comes 2nd IMO.

    No consideration of Scott Niedermayer or Brian Rafalski?

    They're there, but they're not there for me.

    I wouldn't argue against giving them the title though.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by davetherave on Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:38 pm

    asq2 wrote:
    davetherave wrote:
    asq2 wrote:Green obviously wins this, but he's so close to a 4th winger that it's almost hard for me to call him a defenceman.

    Andrei Markov comes 2nd IMO.

    No consideration of Scott Niedermayer or Brian Rafalski?

    They're there, but they're not there for me.

    I wouldn't argue against giving them the title though.

    Have you watched Niedermayer play this year? A much more complete player than Green.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by asq2 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:41 pm

    Scott Niedermayer is more complete than Mike Green might ever approach.

    However, I'm not sure that's pertinent to this award. From an offensive perspective, Green exceeds him.

    Another guy who hasn't been mentioned but should is Marc Streit.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by davetherave on Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:47 pm

    asq2 wrote:Scott Niedermayer is more complete than Mike Green might ever approach.

    However, I'm not sure that's pertinent to this award. From an offensive perspective, Green exceeds him.

    Another guy who hasn't been mentioned but should is Marc Streit.

    From an offensive perspective, Scott Niedermayer is arguably a more complete player than Green.

    Green's point totals are good, but he does not control the tempo of a game the way Niedermayer does.

    Not even close.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by asq2 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:11 pm

    davetherave wrote:
    asq2 wrote:Scott Niedermayer is more complete than Mike Green might ever approach.

    However, I'm not sure that's pertinent to this award. From an offensive perspective, Green exceeds him.

    Another guy who hasn't been mentioned but should is Marc Streit.

    From an offensive perspective, Scott Niedermayer is arguably a more complete player than Green.

    Green's point totals are good, but he does not control the tempo of a game the way Niedermayer does.

    Not even close.

    Niedermayer, however, is not the same offensive threat that Green is.

    Anyway, they're both great offensively and either could have the award.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by davetherave on Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:21 pm

    asq2 wrote:
    davetherave wrote:
    asq2 wrote:Scott Niedermayer is more complete than Mike Green might ever approach.

    However, I'm not sure that's pertinent to this award. From an offensive perspective, Green exceeds him.

    Another guy who hasn't been mentioned but should is Marc Streit.

    From an offensive perspective, Scott Niedermayer is arguably a more complete player than Green.

    Green's point totals are good, but he does not control the tempo of a game the way Niedermayer does.

    Not even close.

    Niedermayer, however, is not the same offensive threat that Green is.

    Anyway, they're both great offensively and either could have the award.

    Just trying to offer a different perspective for you on what constitutes being 'offensively valuable'.

    It's not just about the points such a defenseman accumulates for himself.

    It's about how his all around offensive capability (inc. puck management, view of the play, control of tempo, contribution to transition game, ability to create scoring chances and sustained offensive pressure) drives the team's offense.

    Bobby Orr was a perfect example...he also racked up the points...but then nobody has EVER come close to the skill of Bobby Orr...at least not in my lifetime of watching hockey.

    I don't see how Green shines beyond his goal scoring.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by asq2 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:26 pm

    He's also pretty good at skating, puck control and passing.

    You're right, Niedermayer controls the tempo more than he does, but Green's exceptional at creating a counter-attack with his ability to spot a team-mate half-way up the ice and make a tape-to-tape pass.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by davetherave on Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:29 pm

    asq2 wrote:He's also pretty good at skating, puck control and passing.

    You're right, Niedermayer controls the tempo more than he does, but Green's exceptional at creating a counter-attack with his ability to spot a team-mate half-way up the ice and make a tape-to-tape pass.

    Well, I will watch Green more closely next season...I am always skeptical though of someone as hyped as he is.

    Green has done very little in the playoffs so far...Ovechkin has been the engine of the Caps, no?
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by PTFlea on Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:29 pm

    asq2 wrote:
    Niedermayer, however, is not the same offensive threat that Green is.

    Anyway, they're both great offensively and either could have the award.

    I have a slight man crush on Neidermayer that re-started late March. He is so slick and controls every single facet of the game.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by davetherave on Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:24 pm

    504Heater wrote:
    asq2 wrote:
    Niedermayer, however, is not the same offensive threat that Green is.

    Anyway, they're both great offensively and either could have the award.

    I have a slight man crush on Niedermayer that re-started late March. He is so slick and controls every single facet of the game.

    Aye, Scotty's a manly man he is now...LOL

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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by PTFlea on Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:51 pm

    Crying Not a fan of that specific picture.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by asq2 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:58 pm

    davetherave wrote:
    asq2 wrote:He's also pretty good at skating, puck control and passing.

    You're right, Niedermayer controls the tempo more than he does, but Green's exceptional at creating a counter-attack with his ability to spot a team-mate half-way up the ice and make a tape-to-tape pass.

    Well, I will watch Green more closely next season...I am always skeptical though of someone as hyped as he is.

    Green has done very little in the playoffs so far...Ovechkin has been the engine of the Caps, no?

    Personally, I think Backstrom has been the unsung hero for that team.

    Niedermayer's obviously been vastly superior to Green in the post-season. But this is a regular-season award, isn't it?
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by asq2 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:00 pm

    504Heater wrote:
    asq2 wrote:
    Niedermayer, however, is not the same offensive threat that Green is.

    Anyway, they're both great offensively and either could have the award.

    I have a slight man crush on Neidermayer that re-started late March. He is so slick and controls every single facet of the game.

    Don't get me wrong, if you were to ask me who the better defenceman is, it'd be Nieds all the way.

    Offensively, though, I think Green is superior.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by davetherave on Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:32 pm

    asq2 wrote:
    504Heater wrote:
    asq2 wrote:
    Niedermayer, however, is not the same offensive threat that Green is.

    Anyway, they're both great offensively and either could have the award.

    I have a slight man crush on Neidermayer that re-started late March. He is so slick and controls every single facet of the game.

    Don't get me wrong, if you were to ask me who the better defenceman is, it'd be Nieds all the way.

    Offensively, though, I think Green is superior.

    Ah, the joys of hockey talk...

    :D:
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by The Silfer Server on Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:41 pm

    I'm torn between Redden and Meszaros! Our drop in goal scoring from last year to this year proves that!! Facepalm

    I'm joking of course.

    The Bobby Orr trophy shouldn't go to Gonchar this year, as he only played 25 games.

    I would give an honourable mention to Andrei Markov, he is an underrated dman, does a lot for the Habs, especially on the PP. Sad thing is, he is even underrated among Habs fans, at least the ones I know.

    Another honourable mention should go to Mark Streit, as he was a part of 28% of his team's goals, despite missing 8 games.

    But my vote for best Offencive Dman for this year goes to Mike Green. He's the first Dman in over a decade to go over a point per game (lidstrom achieved a point/game in 2005) and the first dman to score over 30 goals since '93. He also led all Dmen in shooting percentage, meaning his large number goals aren't coming off an obscene number of shots, but because he has a hard and accurate shot.
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    Re: GMHockey - Bobby Orr Trophy

    Post by asq2 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:52 pm

    Mike Green isn't just a guy who can shoot. He brings so much more than that.

    42 assists is no poor total.

    EDIT: Give him an 82 game season and he'd have had over 50.

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