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Balsillie and Bettman Go To War

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31Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 12:03 pm

PTFlea


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shabbs wrote:Not so wily? Al Davis got what he wanted... I have a feeling Balsillie will too, but it's going to be ugly.

He won't if Bettman feels he's bullying. That would open the door to tons of problems down the road.

No deal. He can purchase the Coyotes, but there's zero chance the NHL will allow him to move it to Canada. There will be a time when Canada will have it's 7th and 8th and potentially even a 9th team, but it won't be under Balsille's terms, it'll be under the NHL's.

He is kinda dumb actually. He could have purchased a majority share in Nashville, then moved the team whenever he wanted - if he had kept his mouth (and agenda) shut.

32Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 12:10 pm

Guest


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Let me address a bunch of these in one post. First I don't know why the owner's who I've heard want to get involved, haven't or were not called upon for the Nashville, Tampa, etc situations. I can only tell you what I've heard based on the people I get to talk to thanks to Dawg. That has only been for the last 9 months give or take a bit, so I'm not sure what happend or why prior to last Sept.

As for growing the game in the Southern US. I do believe it can happen. I spent several weeks in Dallas last year and found their fans are rabid hockey fans. The population is what something like 12 times what it is in Canada (across the entire us) so even if it seems like few people in the Southern US like hockey, the numbers are still pretty large.

Plus (this is just my opinion and I've posted it several times) if the NHL were to reach a backdoor agreement with Vegas casinos to do what they can to help them increase betting on the game, and in turn work out a an agreement with ESPN to televise more games on US tv, then I think you'll find the numbers grow quite quickly.

Get them betting and they will all watch, and it only takes one rabid fan to turn into 2 then 4 then 8...etc.

My point being the right TV contract with interest in people due to betting or other outside factors can quite quickly turn things around in the US. I never saw Phoenix as being a good place to play hockey, same with Tampa or Miami. The NHL simply went with the oportunity to get expansion fees, without thinking long term what the effect of struggling franchises would be on the league as a whole.

33Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 12:12 pm

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Oh, and Moyes has not been removed as Owner, just the league has stepped in (which is it's right) to ensure it's product is being represented properly. In this case it's in bankruptcy court, but it the NHL has stepped up before and made decisions for teams before.

My biggest question( thanks to Dawg) is why did the NHL allow an owner to walk away from his team in Nashville, but turn around and take over a team in Minnesota.

That to me is mind boggeling.

34Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 1:01 pm

shabbs

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Bettman responds:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/05/06/bettman_balsillie/

Looks like they'll argue that the bankruptcy filing was illegal.

35Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 2:55 pm

Cronie

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Surprise surprise, eh Shabbs...

And TSN's Bob MacKenzie offers this breakdown...

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=277696

Interesting, and while my laymen brain is processing all this legal lingo and such, I wonder whether this bankruptcy filing will hold-up?

Either way, I have to agree with MacKenzie's take: no matter what happens, Bettman and the league will be severely, if not PERMANENTLY, tarnished in the eyes of MANY Canadian hockey fans.

36Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 2:55 pm

davetherave

davetherave
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More on the Phoenix case...again, readers might want to note the decision is not in Bettman's hands but in the hands of the NHL Board of Governors.

This is not as 'cut and dried' as some people seem to think.

From CBSSports.com:

--------------

Bettman unsure of Coyotes suitor, situation





NEW YORK -- NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is skeptical of Jim Balsillie's offer to buy the Phoenix Coyotes, saying he isn't sure the BlackBerry boss could gain approval of league owners.

The NHL stripped current Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes of the authority to run the club Tuesday after Moyes announced the team had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Balsillie announced a plan to buy the financially troubled team and move it to Canada, where they were the Winnipeg Jets before moving to Phoenix for the 1996-97 season.

"I don't know whether or not he could get approved," Bettman said on Wednesday during a discussion of commissioners from the four major U.S. pro sports leagues. "That's, as I said, something I don't get a vote on. If in fact it becomes an issue for board consideration, the board of governors of the league will make that decision."

Balsillie, co-CEO of BlackBerry maker Research In Motion, said his $212.5 million offer is conditional on the Coyotes relocating to Canada.

The team's Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing included the proposed sale of the franchise to PSE Sports & Entertainment, LP.

Bettman said the filing occurred "not because creditors were lurking and seeking redress for not being paid, but because there was an offer apparently from Mr. Balsillie to buy the franchise and move it."

"This is not about whether or not we want a franchise in southern Ontario. This is not about whether or not Mr. Balsillie would make a suitable owner that the owners would approve. This is about the league's rules and the enforceability of our rules," Bettman said.

"Whether or not Mr. Moyes even had the authority to file the bankruptcy petition is something we're going to get into. This is more about the tactic and I think a challenge to league rules than it is about economic condition of the club, which we believe can with new ownership and with the accommodations the city of Glendale is prepared to make, we think can succeed."

Bettman sounded as if the league wouldn't approve a move of the Coyotes right now.

"We generally try to avoid relocating franchises unless you absolutely have to," he said. "We think when a franchise is in trouble, you try and fix the problems. That's what we did in Pittsburgh and Ottawa and Buffalo prior to our work stoppage. That's what we did when the perception was that five out of the six Canadian franchises around the turn of the century were in trouble. We fixed the problems. We don't run out on cities."

Copyright 2009 by STATS LLC and The Associated Press.

37Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 2:58 pm

shabbs

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davetherave wrote:Bettman sounded as if the league wouldn't approve a move of the Coyotes right now.

"We generally try to avoid relocating franchises unless you absolutely have to," he said. "We think when a franchise is in trouble, you try and fix the problems. That's what we did in Pittsburgh and Ottawa and Buffalo prior to our work stoppage. That's what we did when the perception was that five out of the six Canadian franchises around the turn of the century were in trouble. We fixed the problems. We don't run out on cities."
I guess Bettman didn't think that rule applied to Winnipeg eh?

Wink

38Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 3:06 pm

davetherave

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shabbs wrote:
davetherave wrote:Bettman sounded as if the league wouldn't approve a move of the Coyotes right now.

"We generally try to avoid relocating franchises unless you absolutely have to," he said. "We think when a franchise is in trouble, you try and fix the problems. That's what we did in Pittsburgh and Ottawa and Buffalo prior to our work stoppage. That's what we did when the perception was that five out of the six Canadian franchises around the turn of the century were in trouble. We fixed the problems. We don't run out on cities."
I guess Bettman didn't think that rule applied to Winnipeg eh?

Wink

Shabbs...too clever by half.

The NHL tried to find local investors. None presented themselves.

39Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 3:07 pm

Cronie

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shabbs wrote:
davetherave wrote:Bettman sounded as if the league wouldn't approve a move of the Coyotes right now.

"We generally try to avoid relocating franchises unless you absolutely have to," he said. "We think when a franchise is in trouble, you try and fix the problems. That's what we did in Pittsburgh and Ottawa and Buffalo prior to our work stoppage. That's what we did when the perception was that five out of the six Canadian franchises around the turn of the century were in trouble. We fixed the problems. We don't run out on cities."
I guess Bettman didn't think that rule applied to Winnipeg eh?

Wink

bazzzzzzzzzzing!!!!

40Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 3:11 pm

shabbs

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davetherave wrote:
shabbs wrote:
davetherave wrote:Bettman sounded as if the league wouldn't approve a move of the Coyotes right now.

"We generally try to avoid relocating franchises unless you absolutely have to," he said. "We think when a franchise is in trouble, you try and fix the problems. That's what we did in Pittsburgh and Ottawa and Buffalo prior to our work stoppage. That's what we did when the perception was that five out of the six Canadian franchises around the turn of the century were in trouble. We fixed the problems. We don't run out on cities."
I guess Bettman didn't think that rule applied to Winnipeg eh?

Wink

Shabbs...too clever by half.

The NHL tried to find local investors. None presented themselves.
I'm sure he tried real hard...

Wink

Heh heh.

41Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 4:19 pm

davetherave

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Actually Shabbs, it has never been 'up to Bettman'.

Being Commissioner, Bettman would customarily oversee the activities of the NHL and report to the Board of Governors, who vote on all of the decisions. Bettman would have the tie breaking vote in the case of an impasse.

Again, if the NHL was dead set against franchises in Canada, the Senators would have been toast when they went bankrupt.

The same thing would have taken place when the Montreal Canadiens were being sold almost ten years ago.

Bettmania--or Garyphobia, to be more exact--is fashionable among the Mainstream Hockey Media.

Bettman's an easy--and convenient--target.

But is this mania based in fact?

If you do a comparative analysis of the NHL during Bettman's tenure to the eras of Gil Stein, John Ziegler and Clarence Campbell--names unknown to many hockey fans, you might not be so quick to join the mob who want to lynch Gary.

My position, in case you are interested, is that I simply look at what is going on and try reserve judgement until I have the facts.

Insofar as Balsillie is concerned, I find his way of 'doing business' questionable. If he's serious about getting a franchise, why can't he just follow the established procedures for getting one, like all the other owners do?

If Len Barrie and Oren Koules could buy into a franchise, why can't Balsillie get it together with the Board of Governors, as they did?

About the Jets, this excerpt from a site devoted to the history of the team is worth reading:

Amidst a 4-month lockout that cuts the 1994-95 NHL season in half word begins to spread that the Jets future in Winnipeg is in jeopardy. Despite solid seasons from Alexei Zhamnov, Keith Tkachuk and Teemu Selanne the Jets again finish in last place with a record of 16-25-7.

Following the season efforts to save the Jets would be thrown in to overdrive after the Manitoba Entertainment Complex announces they would not exercise their option to purchase the Jets and keep the team in Winnipeg.

After the MEC fell apart, and a retirement ceremony for the Jets logo and Thomas Steen's #25 were held Operation Grassroots was started in an effort to persuade government and local buyers to construct a new arena and keep the Jets in Winnipeg. On May 16th 35,000 people attend a rally to raise money in the largest rally in Winnipeg in 50 years.

Approximately $250,000 is raised at this rally from the citizens of Winnipeg. A day later another $250,000 would be raised at "Hockey Social" at the Winnipeg Convention Centre.

Meanwhile a deal to sell the team to a ownership group in Minnesota would fall apart, as owner Barry Shenkarow announces the team will stay in Winnipeg at least one more season.

However, efforts to keep them in Winnipeg beyond a season were hampered when the Winnipeg City Council voted to deny charitable tax status on donations to The Spirit of Manitoba formerly known as the MEC, who were raising money to save the team. Although the decision would be overturned, the Spirit of Manitoba would fail to raise the required capital to proceed with the purchase of the Winnipeg Jets, ending all hopes the team would stay in Winnipeg beyond one year, as ownership outside Winnipeg was sought.

1995/96:
"By the time I get to Phoenix she'll be rising, she'll find the note I left hangin' on her door she'll laugh when she reads the part that says I'm leavin' Cause I've left that girl so many times before." Words sung by Glenn Campbell must have been a punch in the heart to the fans of the Jets as they entered their final lame duck season in Winnipeg, as a group headed by Richard Burke and Steven Gluckstern announces they would be moving the Jets to Phoenix following the season.

---

So, according to this account, it was the City of Winnipeg--and NOT Gary Bettman--who would have been responsible for the final demise of the Jets.

42Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 4:31 pm

shabbs

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davetherave wrote:Actually Shabbs, it has never been 'up to Bettman'.
The assumption has always been that Bettman has the BOG's ear and they do what he says. Call it Bettmania or Garyphobia or whatever you like, it's a sentiment that's out there. We'll never know what goes on, we're not on the inside. We can only specualte based on what we see and the dancing Gary does when questioned.

43Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 4:37 pm

davetherave

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shabbs wrote:
davetherave wrote:Actually Shabbs, it has never been 'up to Bettman'.
The assumption has always been that Bettman has the BOG's ear and they do what he says. Call it Bettmania or Garyphobia or whatever you like, it's a sentiment that's out there. We'll never know what goes on, we're not on the inside. We can only specualte based on what we see and the dancing Gary does when questioned.

My friend Shabbs, that is, as you say, an assumption.

The Board of Governors are the guys with the gold.

And you know The Golden Rule:

"He who holds the gold, makes the rules."

44Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 4:39 pm

shabbs

shabbs
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davetherave wrote:
shabbs wrote:
davetherave wrote:Actually Shabbs, it has never been 'up to Bettman'.
The assumption has always been that Bettman has the BOG's ear and they do what he says. Call it Bettmania or Garyphobia or whatever you like, it's a sentiment that's out there. We'll never know what goes on, we're not on the inside. We can only specualte based on what we see and the dancing Gary does when questioned.

My friend Shabbs, that is, as you say, an assumption.

The Board of Governors are the guys with the gold.

And you know The Golden Rule:

"He who holds the gold, makes the rules."
Agreed.

But who brought them that Gold?

Gary did.

We can spin this all day...

Wink

45Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 4:40 pm

Guest


Guest
Most of the owners were rich before they bought an NHL team. I dont know how they all listen to Bettman to be honest... I guess getting that cap proved his worth in some aspect.

46Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 4:47 pm

shabbs

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For sure. But if this goes to the BOG, then this will be a real test for the group.

47Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 4:47 pm

davetherave

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Bettman is basically a 'caretaker' is what I'm saying.

He is mandated to further the interests of the owners.

So if you want to get mad at somebody, try getting mad at the Board of Governors.

Bettman's just an easy target, is all.

48Balsillie and Bettman Go To War - Page 3 Empty Re: Balsillie and Bettman Go To War on Wed May 06, 2009 4:50 pm

Guest


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It makes sense to move the Yotes, even more sense to fold them, doesnt matter what way you spin it. Basille is trying to make an Donkey out of Bettman because he basically did the same to him, and so far its working.

Either way I dont think this will end well for the NHL.

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