Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

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    SensGirl11
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by SensGirl11 on Thu May 21, 2009 1:42 pm

    I can't see why they can't survive there. What else is there to do?

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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu May 21, 2009 1:46 pm

    SensGirl11 wrote:I can't see why they can't survive there. What else is there to do?

    The City of Winnipeg has to apply for a zip code and take it from there.

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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by shabbs on Thu May 21, 2009 1:56 pm

    SensGirl11 wrote:I can't see why they can't survive there. What else is there to do?
    Awww... c'mon... Winnipeg isn't that dull of a city.

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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by PTFlea on Thu May 21, 2009 1:57 pm

    SensGirl11 wrote:I can't see why they can't survive there. What else is there to do?

    :^^^^:
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by davetherave on Thu May 21, 2009 5:14 pm

    If a billionaire like Balsillie were willing to develop the Winnipeg market, the negative factors cited by Richardson in his article might be mitigated.
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu May 21, 2009 5:17 pm

    davetherave wrote:If a billionaire like Balsillie were willing to develop the Winnipeg market, the negative factors cited by Richardson in his article might be mitigated.

    Winnipeg has the Aspers.
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by shabbs on Thu May 21, 2009 5:27 pm

    davetherave wrote:If a billionaire like Balsillie were willing to develop the Winnipeg market, the negative factors cited by Richardson in his article might be mitigated.
    For sure. But money doesn't grow on trees and whether we like it or not... the NHL and it's owners are in the business of making money, or at least trying to. The GTA has nearly 6 million people, the Golden Horseshoe has approx 8.1 million people... I bet we could fit an additional two teams in this area, easily.
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by davetherave on Thu May 21, 2009 8:37 pm

    shabbs wrote:
    davetherave wrote:If a billionaire like Balsillie were willing to develop the Winnipeg market, the negative factors cited by Richardson in his article might be mitigated.
    For sure. But money doesn't grow on trees and whether we like it or not... the NHL and it's owners are in the business of making money, or at least trying to. The GTA has nearly 6 million people, the Golden Horseshoe has approx 8.1 million people... I bet we could fit an additional two teams in this area, easily.

    IMHO it's just terribly unfair that the 'haves' might keep getting more and the 'have nots' in Canada would continue to be deprived of having an NHL team.

    If the NHL can go into markets like Raleigh, Atlanta, South Florida, Phoenix and Nashville and try to 'grow the game' there--with hundreds of millions of dollars in losses--why can't they work on developing markets that are hockey-friendly like Winnipeg?
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by shabbs on Thu May 21, 2009 8:48 pm

    davetherave wrote:IMHO it's just terribly unfair that the 'haves' might keep getting more and the 'have nots' in Canada would continue to be deprived of having an NHL team.

    If the NHL can go into markets like Raleigh, Atlanta, South Florida, Phoenix and Nashville and try to 'grow the game' there--with hundreds of millions of dollars in losses--why can't they work on developing markets that are hockey-friendly like Winnipeg?
    I hear ya, but the population in the surrounding areas of those cities are a lot more than what Winnipeg has to offer, and thus would represent are larger potential.

    But, as we've seen, it doesn't always work with that.

    Smaller population, but hockey crazed vs Large population and hockey indifferent.

    Bettman seems to be going the "Large and Indifferent" route, but maybe that will start to change after all of this settles down.
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by davetherave on Thu May 21, 2009 8:57 pm

    Shabbs, agreed...it's a basic rule of marketing and business development that a company wants to bring its product and/or service to a market where there is a perceived desire and/or need.

    The NHL has made some serious errors in persisting with markets that are, as you say, 'hockey indifferent'.

    Nashville and Carolina have been developed correctly, and the fanbase there is very engaged.

    But when guys like Jerry Moyes who may have no clue how to market hockey in Phoenix are running a team into the ground, the NHL has shot itself in the foot by not acting sooner.

    That said, I do not support Balsillie's initiative to put a team in Hamilton. In Canada, yes. In a market that already has two NHL franchises, one of them in financial difficulty, a third makes zero sense...unless you're an accountant.
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by beedub on Fri May 22, 2009 9:17 am

    Pretty funny that people correlate the number of citizens of Winnipeg and it's surrounding towns to the success of a franchise.

    I lived there for over two years, and amongst the blue collar workers, with whom I co-mingled, hockey is still a huge topic of conversation, and interest is high.

    If the MTS Center could be retrofitted somehow to allow 17,500 bums in seats, they would come.

    Most importantly, merchandise sales and concession sales would be astronomical. A smart owner could make small profits within two years.

    I would rather a population of 700,000, 350,000 of which are die hard NHL fans than a city of 5 or 6 million where no one gives a Dung.

    There would only be 17,000 odd seats for each game so a sellout is a sellout.

    I promise you, small business in Winnipeg would ensure this franchise would be viable and remain so. Season ticket sales would be brisk, to say the least
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by wprager on Fri May 22, 2009 12:36 pm

    shabbs wrote:
    davetherave wrote:If a billionaire like Balsillie were willing to develop the Winnipeg market, the negative factors cited by Richardson in his article might be mitigated.
    For sure. But money doesn't grow on trees and whether we like it or not... the NHL and it's owners are in the business of making money, or at least trying to. The GTA has nearly 6 million people, the Golden Horseshoe has approx 8.1 million people... I bet we could fit an additional two teams in this area, easily.

    I heard the other day that Mumbai has a population of Canada. Don't you go telling Bettman about it, though, or else when Dave says "Commit to the Indian" it might have a whole 'nother meaning.
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by Acrobat on Sun May 24, 2009 12:27 am

    Now you did it.
    European expansion is off the table.
    The NHL is going to expand to South Asia and the Orient instead.

    Damn, those road trips are going to be tough, though. And don't forget the malaria pills...
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by davetherave on Sun May 24, 2009 6:38 am

    Beedub raises a very good point.

    Why haven't more Canadian investors stepped forward to develop urban markets in this country with a view to attracting an NHL franchise?

    And people also seem to have forgotten the reason Winnipeg lost the Jets in the first place...particularly the unwillingness of the City of Winnipeg itself to support the fans' citizen-based fundraising drive to help keep the team alive.
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by shabbs on Sun May 24, 2009 9:38 am

    davetherave wrote:Why haven't more Canadian investors stepped forward to develop urban markets in this country with a view to attracting an NHL franchise?
    Because that costs hundreds of millions of dollars to accomplish, and usually requires heavy involvement, funding and support from the city, province, federal govt etc...

    davetherave wrote:And people also seem to have forgotten the reason Winnipeg lost the Jets in the first place...particularly the unwillingness of the City of Winnipeg itself to support the fans' citizen-based fundraising drive to help keep the team alive.
    There's plenty of blame to go around there... the various levels of govt for an unwillingness to properly fund the team, Shenkarow's bad management of the team, owners of the arena holding back concessions etc...

    Perhaps things could work out better with a new/improved arena with better deals for concessions and proper funding from investors and government etc...
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by davetherave on Sun May 24, 2009 11:48 am

    If Canadian investors, urban and provincial governments--with few exceptions--have been unwilling to step up to help maintain (in the case of Winnipeg and Quebec) and/or increase the NHL presence in this country...is it fair to accuse Bettman of being anti-Canada?

    Or are Canada's 'powers-that-be' the ones at fault?
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by TheAvatar on Sun May 24, 2009 12:32 pm

    davetherave wrote:If Canadian investors, urban and provincial governments--with few exceptions--have been unwilling to step up to help maintain (in the case of Winnipeg and Quebec) and/or increase the NHL presence in this country...is it fair to accuse Bettman of being anti-Canada?

    Or are Canada's 'powers-that-be' the ones at fault?

    That's a good question. I remember when the sens were facing bankruptcy, some stakeholders in the government wanted to step in but I think that the population (not Ottawa mind you) was overwhelmingly against it.
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    Re: Can Winnipeg Support an NHL Franchise?

    Post by shabbs on Sun May 24, 2009 3:03 pm

    TheAvatar wrote:
    davetherave wrote:If Canadian investors, urban and provincial governments--with few exceptions--have been unwilling to step up to help maintain (in the case of Winnipeg and Quebec) and/or increase the NHL presence in this country...is it fair to accuse Bettman of being anti-Canada?

    Or are Canada's 'powers-that-be' the ones at fault?

    That's a good question. I remember when the sens were facing bankruptcy, some stakeholders in the government wanted to step in but I think that the population (not Ottawa mind you) was overwhelmingly against it.
    Welcome to government.

    It's a tough one, you'd like to see the govt doing all they can to help these clubs get up and off the ground but so many people would rather see their tax dollars spent elsewhere and for other things.

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