Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

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    SeawaySensFan
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:22 pm

    [quote="SensGirl11"]
    wprager wrote:Driver is out on bail:
    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Driver+accused+mowing+down+March+Road+cyclists+gets+bail/1820537/story.html[/quote]

    I can't believe he got out on bail, it's absolutely unacceptable and unbelievable. There's our system at work for you again. Nice eh?

    I doubt he did it on purpose. More deliberate and violent crimes have gotten the same result.

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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SensGirl11 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:27 pm

    [quote="SeawaySensFan"]
    SensGirl11 wrote:
    wprager wrote:Driver is out on bail:
    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Driver+accused+mowing+down+March+Road+cyclists+gets+bail/1820537/story.html[/quote]

    I can't believe he got out on bail, it's absolutely unacceptable and unbelievable. There's our system at work for you again. Nice eh?

    I doubt he did it on purpose. More deliberate and violent crimes have gotten the same result.

    I'm not saying he did it on purpose, obviously. It still doesn't mean he should walk out of jail after 4 days though, when the people he hit are suffering in the hospital and one of them still hasn't come out of his coma. This guy should be in jail until his trial is over, period. What rights should he have at this point? I realize it wasn't on purpose, but he did it, and if he was drunk or fell asleep that is a very serious crime and he needs to pay for it, starting now.

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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by wprager on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:27 pm

    He's been asked to surrender his passport, not drink, keep working and stay at home. He also paid $55K cash bond. I don't know how much of a flight risk he is. His house is already sold, so it appears he was already moving (where? who knows). Coming to work, though, man. I think I'd rather be in jail than face co-workers after running away from an accident I caused.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SensGirl11 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:29 pm

    I find it odd though, that they would tell the whole city, let alone everyone, what street he lives on.

    He is required to reside at his family home on Flamborough Way in Kanata.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by shabbs on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:29 pm

    If he's deemed to not be a threat to society (ie: has a criminal record of similar offences) and does not have a prior history of failing to attend court... a bail will be set. $55k seems low though.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:33 pm

    SensGirl11 wrote:I'm not saying he did it on purpose, obviously. It still doesn't mean he should walk out of jail after 4 days though, when the people he hit are suffering in the hospital and one of them still hasn't come out of his coma. This guy should be in jail until his trial is over, period. What rights should he have at this point? I realize it wasn't on purpose, but he did it, and if he was drunk or fell asleep that is a very serious crime and he needs to pay for it, starting now.

    I've spent a day in jail and I certainly wouldn't wish 4 days on anyone. I'm pretty sure it's only a crime once you're convicted.

    Riding a bike in traffic is risky business. Accidents happen.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SensGirl11 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:34 pm

    wprager wrote:He's been asked to surrender his passport, not drink, keep working and stay at home. He also paid $55K cash bond. I don't know how much of a flight risk he is. His house is already sold, so it appears he was already moving (where? who knows). Coming to work, though, man. I think I'd rather be in jail than face co-workers after running away from an accident I caused.

    Yeah, if I were him, I'd just stay in jail personally. I'm sure he is feeling like a big piece of Dung and having a hard time living with himself. I don't know how I would be if I was involved in something so tragic. I don't think I would be able to go back to work for a Diddle of a long time though. His conditions will be broken in a few days, I'm almost sure of it. How is he going to go to work and live normally after that? It doesn't make sense.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SensGirl11 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:37 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    SensGirl11 wrote:I'm not saying he did it on purpose, obviously. It still doesn't mean he should walk out of jail after 4 days though, when the people he hit are suffering in the hospital and one of them still hasn't come out of his coma. This guy should be in jail until his trial is over, period. What rights should he have at this point? I realize it wasn't on purpose, but he did it, and if he was drunk or fell asleep that is a very serious crime and he needs to pay for it, starting now.

    I've spent a day in jail and I certainly wouldn't wish 4 days on anyone. I'm pretty sure it's only a crime once you're convicted.

    Riding a bike in traffic is risky business. Accidents happen.


    Are you being serious? It was not 1 but 5 cyclists he mowed down. That's not just an accident.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:41 pm

    SensGirl11 wrote:
    Are you being serious? It was not 1 but 5 cyclists he mowed down. That's not just an accident.

    5 in "tight formation". Unfortunate accident. They happen.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SensGirl11 on Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:56 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    SensGirl11 wrote:
    Are you being serious? It was not 1 but 5 cyclists he mowed down. That's not just an accident.

    5 in "tight formation". Unfortunate accident. They happen.


    I guess I'm empathizing way more for the victims and families of the victims, rather than the person that caused the accident.
    I tend to think of 'what if it happened to a family member of mine, or my child, husband etc...' What would I want to have happen to the person that did it? What punishment should they serve? But, of course, it's in the hands of the court and not the families. I just don't have faith in our justice system at all, and it seems these things are happening way too often now.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by jamvan on Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:09 pm

    wprager wrote:http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Update+charged+March+Road+collision/1807152/story.html

    The crash happened around 7:50 on Sunday morning. My wife was coming home from some errands later in the AM and saw the police and the mangled bikes. Later I was driving up Morgan's Grant and saw cruisers and a flat-bed truck at a home on Flamborough, just at the intersection. The truck was labeled "Collision Investigation".

    The guy injured worst is a father of two. He has subcranial bleeding and hasn't regained conciousness.

    This is a stretch of road I used to bike on almost every day when I lived in Kanata Lakes and worked at Newbridge/Alcatel.
    Man we our neighbours! This happened a few blocks from my house. We came down the road the road and saw the van parked in their driveway half in and half out. Seeing the scene was knumbing and still can't understand what the heck happened.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by jamvan on Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:11 pm

    Acrobat wrote:Prags -

    I live in the area as well; it's crazy the way people drive down March Rd.

    There have been way too many accidents at the corner of March and Morgan's Grant, because the vehicles coming from Dunrobin/etc are still going 120kmh and can't stop for the red light. Trying to turn right out of Klondike is hard, but turning left is nearly impossible.

    You are right, it may have been an issue of driver fatigue. Although Sunday morning may just mean a long Saturday night, so alcohol may still be a factor. The fact that the driver went home, then turned himself in a few hours later is disturbing.

    For those of us who have kids that ride bikes, it's especially scary.
    I live right on Klondike and people fly up the street. I often want to sit there and throw out those nails spikes the police do to stop high speed chases.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by shabbs on Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:01 pm

    SensGirl11 wrote:I guess I'm empathizing way more for the victims and families of the victims, rather than the person that caused the accident.
    It's impossible not to. But if bail was denied on all people who were charged with similar counts... we'd have no room in the jails to hold these people. Denying bail can only be done under very specific circumstances and the onus is on the court to show why it should be denied.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by wprager on Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:19 pm

    Jam, we're nearly neighbors. I'm just off Halton next to Jack Donohue.


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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by wprager on Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:31 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    SensGirl11 wrote:
    Are you being serious? It was not 1 but 5 cyclists he mowed down. That's not just an accident.

    5 in "tight formation". Unfortunate accident. They happen.

    SSF, this wasn't traffic. It's a 4-lane road (2 in each direction) with a 5' bike lane. It was Sunday morning, so absolutely no traffic. Anyone paying attention would have moved over to the passing lane just in case (I know I always do when passing bikes).

    I used to have to walk from Rideau Center to just across from the National Arts Gallery. Every day I'd see guys on bikes along Sussex (very narrow street) and other downtown streets, literally taking their lives into their hands on a daily commute. The worst was bikers turning from Wellington/Rdieau left onto Sussex. Some of these guys are approaching 40-45 km/hr making a sweeping right-angle turn. Walking on the sidewalk up toward Rideau Center I sometimes feared for my life -- if these jokers ever lost control even for a split second and jumped the curb. And I saw some of them riding with no helmets.

    Now those guys, sure, it's like they are asking for trouble. I would definitely hold them at least partially responsible if they were involved in an accident.

    However the accident on March road is an entirely different matter. Sunday morning (no traffic), overcast but no rain (no visibility or traction issues) and a clearly indicated bike path.

    Earlier I thought the accident happened before Solandt, where the bike lane has to shift over to accomodate the exit lane. But after seeing the photographs of the accident, I see that it actually happened *after* the intersecion. This guy obviously veered into the bike lane. And given where he lives, it's not likely that he was turning right on Solandt, or that he started turning by mistake then had to steer left to get back on the road.

    It is very likely from what I've heard on the radio that alcohol was involved, which only makes it worse.

    And if all of that is not enough, this guy mowed them down, possibly dragging a couple of bikes under his wheels, then drove off and didn't turn himself in for several hours.


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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by jamvan on Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:49 pm

    wprager wrote:Jam, we're nearly neighbors. I'm just off Halton next to Jack Donohue.
    Yes we are man! I'm at the end of Klondike by 2nd Line
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:53 pm

    What I meant by "traffic" is anywhere where you would be sharing the road with cars. Either way, no one was asking for this to happen, not the motorist, not the cyclists.

    Locking up the guy and throwing away the key is hardly warranted.
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    Re: Five cyclists mowed down by minivan -- close to home

    Post by wprager on Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:31 pm

    jamvan wrote:
    wprager wrote:Jam, we're nearly neighbors. I'm just off Halton next to Jack Donohue.
    Yes we are man! I'm at the end of Klondike by 2nd Line

    Must be new. The google maps satellite picture shows cow pasture:


    View Larger Map

    ETA: Well, embedding the map didn't work as I'd hoped. It didn't even keep the zoom level correctly.


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