Murray talking to Sundin's agent

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    Snuh
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    Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Snuh on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:19 am

    Listening to the Team 1200 this morning, Dean Roberts is reporting that Murray has been in contact with Sundin's agent. Could be nothing, especially if his agent also represents someone on the Sens, not too sure though. Could be something there.
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Cronie on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:56 am

    Snuh wrote:Listening to the Team 1200 this morning, Dean Roberts is reporting that Murray has been in contact with Sundin's agent. Could be nothing, especially if his agent also represents someone on the Sens, not too sure though. Could be something there.

    Yeah, I heard that as well. Not to mention today's Sun makes mention of Murray speaking to Barry about Sundin, and landing him in Ottawa is a long shot, but it hasn't been from a lack of effort...

    In fact, it said something along the lines of league sources indicated that Murray said to Barry that he would make it work should Sundin wish to come.

    However, like everything in the Sundin saga, more drama and fuel to throw on the fire, that appears to be FINALLY losing steam.
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Aetherial on Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:45 pm

    He has apparently contacted him a couple of times.

    The real question is "Why wouldn't he?".

    I don't think this is news. If Ottawa feels they could possibly clear cap space, they really have to at least take a shot and see if he is interested.

    I speculated last October that Ottawa would be a great place for Sundin to end up. A good fit there I think.

    I can't see it happening though. Something tells me Mats won't go to Ottawa or Montreal.
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Mosky on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:03 pm

    If he decides to play i don't think it will take much to get him on a team, because after all of this thinking, its not about the money.. if it was he would be in vancouver right now, but he's not he trying to figure out where he thinks he'll fit in best.
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Cronie on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:04 pm

    Agreed. I won't use the loyalty or fan base argument. I just think Sundin's two legit options are TO or retire, and I'm leaning towards him hanging his skates up.

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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Guest on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:13 pm

    Cronenbergfan wrote:Agreed. I won't use the loyalty or fan base argument. I just think Sundin's two legit options are TO or retire, and I'm leaning towards him hanging his skates up.
    You're 100% right that those are his two most legitimate options, but - for whatever reason; maybe just a gut feeling - I think those are the least likely decisions he will make.
    I'm convinced that he wants to play for us or New York and that he will end up on one of those two teams. Given the rivalry (which is a factor) between the Sens-Leafsand the legacy that it would leave, if he decided to switch sides, I assume it'll be the Rangers.

    One way or the other, I really want this domino to fall so we can get the rest of the league sorted out.
    As it looks right now, we can expect some uncharacteristic mid-training camp/pre-season and early season trades
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Cronie on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:23 pm

    cash wrote:
    Cronenbergfan wrote:Agreed. I won't use the loyalty or fan base argument. I just think Sundin's two legit options are TO or retire, and I'm leaning towards him hanging his skates up.
    You're 100% right that those are his two most legitimate options, but - for whatever reason; maybe just a gut feeling - I think those are the least likely decisions he will make.
    I'm convinced that he wants to play for us or New York and that he will end up on one of those two teams. Given the rivalry (which is a factor) between the Sens-Leafsand the legacy that it would leave, if he decided to switch sides, I assume it'll be the Rangers.

    One way or the other, I really want this domino to fall so we can get the rest of the league sorted out.
    As it looks right now, we can expect some uncharacteristic mid-training camp/pre-season and early season trades

    Exactly! I am NOT one of the few following this Sundin saga, so in the end, I don't really care WHERE he signs or if he retires. What I DO care about is if his humming and hawwing is holding up other moves, and for that reason and that reason ONLY, I hope this fiasco comes to an end SOON! LOL

    As they say, the show must go on!
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by jamvan on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:26 pm

    Cronenbergfan wrote:
    cash wrote:
    Cronenbergfan wrote:Agreed. I won't use the loyalty or fan base argument. I just think Sundin's two legit options are TO or retire, and I'm leaning towards him hanging his skates up.
    You're 100% right that those are his two most legitimate options, but - for whatever reason; maybe just a gut feeling - I think those are the least likely decisions he will make.
    I'm convinced that he wants to play for us or New York and that he will end up on one of those two teams. Given the rivalry (which is a factor) between the Sens-Leafsand the legacy that it would leave, if he decided to switch sides, I assume it'll be the Rangers.

    One way or the other, I really want this domino to fall so we can get the rest of the league sorted out.
    As it looks right now, we can expect some uncharacteristic mid-training camp/pre-season and early season trades

    Exactly! I am NOT one of the few following this Sundin saga, so in the end, I don't really care WHERE he signs or if he retires. What I DO care about is if his humming and hawwing is holding up other moves, and for that reason and that reason ONLY, I hope this fiasco comes to an end SOON! LOL

    As they say, the show must go on!
    What if I told you were the leading condidate?
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Cronie on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:36 pm

    jamvan wrote:
    Cronenbergfan wrote:
    cash wrote:
    Cronenbergfan wrote:Agreed. I won't use the loyalty or fan base argument. I just think Sundin's two legit options are TO or retire, and I'm leaning towards him hanging his skates up.
    You're 100% right that those are his two most legitimate options, but - for whatever reason; maybe just a gut feeling - I think those are the least likely decisions he will make.
    I'm convinced that he wants to play for us or New York and that he will end up on one of those two teams. Given the rivalry (which is a factor) between the Sens-Leafsand the legacy that it would leave, if he decided to switch sides, I assume it'll be the Rangers.

    One way or the other, I really want this domino to fall so we can get the rest of the league sorted out.
    As it looks right now, we can expect some uncharacteristic mid-training camp/pre-season and early season trades

    Exactly! I am NOT one of the few following this Sundin saga, so in the end, I don't really care WHERE he signs or if he retires. What I DO care about is if his humming and hawwing is holding up other moves, and for that reason and that reason ONLY, I hope this fiasco comes to an end SOON! LOL

    As they say, the show must go on!
    What if I told you were the leading condidate?

    EDIT: if it were possible to land him, without sacrificing raw talent on the Sens part (say by trading or moving Schubert, McAmmond and Neil or something) then it would be worth looking at. But, as it is, I wouldn't know how Murray could make it work.
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by jamvan on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:52 pm

    Cronenbergfan wrote:
    jamvan wrote:
    Cronenbergfan wrote:
    cash wrote:
    Cronenbergfan wrote:Agreed. I won't use the loyalty or fan base argument. I just think Sundin's two legit options are TO or retire, and I'm leaning towards him hanging his skates up.
    You're 100% right that those are his two most legitimate options, but - for whatever reason; maybe just a gut feeling - I think those are the least likely decisions he will make.
    I'm convinced that he wants to play for us or New York and that he will end up on one of those two teams. Given the rivalry (which is a factor) between the Sens-Leafsand the legacy that it would leave, if he decided to switch sides, I assume it'll be the Rangers.

    One way or the other, I really want this domino to fall so we can get the rest of the league sorted out.
    As it looks right now, we can expect some uncharacteristic mid-training camp/pre-season and early season trades

    Exactly! I am NOT one of the few following this Sundin saga, so in the end, I don't really care WHERE he signs or if he retires. What I DO care about is if his humming and hawwing is holding up other moves, and for that reason and that reason ONLY, I hope this fiasco comes to an end SOON! LOL

    As they say, the show must go on!
    What if I told you were the leading condidate?

    EDIT: if it were possible to land him, without sacrificing raw talent on the Sens part (say by trading or moving Schubert, McAmmond and Neil or something) then it would be worth looking at. But, as it is, I wouldn't know how Murray could make it work.
    If he doesn't care about money, we can still offer him close to $4 million to play here. Why would we have to trade anything? Send McCammond to the minors to help with the young kids and voila.
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Cronie on Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:16 pm

    interesting point...

    Also, seeing Cash's post about Schubert being the odd man out, perhaps a trade is looming?? Maybe both our gut instincts were right Jam... ?
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by jamvan on Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:19 pm

    Cronenbergfan wrote:interesting point...

    Also, seeing Cash's post about Schubert being the odd man out, perhaps a trade is looming?? Maybe both our gut instincts were right Jam... ?
    Never know, Murray has been silent this year and you never know what he's up to.
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by rooneypoo on Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:25 pm

    jamvan wrote:
    If he doesn't care about money, we can still offer him close to $4 million to play here. Why would we have to trade anything? Send McCammond to the minors to help with the young kids and voila.

    I think we've been over this a few times around here, but you can't just send unwanted guys to the minors. First, the undesired player would have to clear waivers -- which is when other teams can grab him at his current contract. Second, if he did clear them and made it to the minors, you'd have to pay him his full NHL salary to play in the AHL, and I can guarantee you that GMs/owners consider and test out all other options before they do that. Third, if you ever wanted to call that player up again, he'd have to pass through re-entry waivers -- which is when other teams can grab him at half of his current contract, and leave us paying the other half of that contract (and with that amount counting against our cap).

    I'm not sure we could pay Sundin $4 mil as you suggest, although I'd obviously do it in a second if it were up to me. What's amazing about our situation is that, because we can count on pairing down to a 21-man roster, we can indeed assume that we have about $5 mil in cap space at the moment -- and I say that's amazing because I like our line up and we have an excess of players. But we do need to save a minimum of $1.5-2 mil for call ups, injuries, etc., so I'd say we really only have about $3-3.5 mil to play with right now.
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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:04 pm

    Your right about all that Rooney except that if McAmmond goes down to the Minors it means no one wants him at his current salary and would likely clear waivers. If he didn't clear waivers then that means he's totally off the books so, if they went the route of sending him down they'd probably be pretty happy to see him get picked up on the way down. Assuming he does make it down, which is probably the most likely scenario, assuming of course they wanted to go that route, then he would most likely never see another game as an Ottawa Senator unless there was sheer devestation due to injury.

    Also he did say we could pay him CLOSE to 4 M and in my books 3.5M is getting into the close range but that's a matter of opinion. Also is does that 21 man roster include McAmmond? Could we also not find a way to get down to a 20 man roster like they wanted to do the first year of the new CBA?


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    Re: Murray talking to Sundin's agent

    Post by rooneypoo on Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:50 pm

    Cap'n' Clutch wrote:Your right about all that Rooney except that if McAmmond goes down to the Minors it means no one wants him at his current salary and would likely clear waivers. If he didn't clear waivers then that means he's totally off the books so, if they went the route of sending him down they'd probably be pretty happy to see him get picked up on the way down. Assuming he does make it down, which is probably the most likely scenario, assuming of course they wanted to go that route, then he would most likely never see another game as an Ottawa Senator unless there was sheer devestation due to injury.

    Also he did say we could pay him CLOSE to 4 M and in my books 3.5M is getting into the close range but that's a matter of opinion. Also is does that 21 man roster include McAmmond? Could we also not find a way to get down to a 20 man roster like they wanted to do the first year of the new CBA?

    Or instead of sending McAmmond to the minors... we trade him, which is the obvious answer. Jamvan was saying why trade him when you can send him to the minors? I'm saying, why give him away for nothing on waivers / pay him his full salary to play in the AHL -- which is what would happen if we tried to send him to the minors -- when you can get something, anything in return for him via trade? Trading him is the answer that makes the most sense of all if we don't see him playing for us. Sending him to the minors does not make any sense at all.

    My personal ideal 20/21-man roster would not include McAmmond:

    Foligno/Winchester (.85/.55) - Spezza (7) - Heater (7.5)
    Vermette (2.76) - Fisher (4.2) - Alfie (4.414)
    Foligno/Winchester - Kelly (2.125) - Neil (1.1)
    Ruutu (1.3) - Bass (.513) - Donovan (.625)

    Phillips (3.5) - Volchenkov (2.5)
    Kuba (3) - Lee (1.275)
    Smith (2.6) - Picard (.80)

    Schubert (.883) as 21st man, McAmmond traded

    Gerber (3.7) - Auld (1)
    Emery buyout (.479)

    = $52.674 mil, leaving us with $4 mil in space.

    If you want to pair down to 20, then you have to move another player and shift Schubert to the 4th line. Your options would be a) trade Neil, or b) demote Bass to the minors.

    (Winchester and Foligno are possibilities for demotion too, I grant, but Winchester is less likely, I think, because of his 1-way deal, and Foligno is less likely because he is more skilled offensively. Sending Picard down is not an option -- because of his age, because he's more than 3 years removed from the time of signing his first contract, and because he's played more than 60 games, I'm pretty sure he subject to waivers now. Check out pp.66-67 of the CBA, however, to see if my interpretation makes sense to you.)

    In scenario a), you're left with $5.1 mil in space; in scenario b), your left with just over $4.5 mil (assuming Bass or Winchester), or about $4.85 mil in space (if Foligno).

    Trading Neil and McAmmond, then, would theoretically leave us with enough money to sign Sundin for about $3.5 mil at best (and that might be too close for comfort for Murray). But then we'd have a 21-man roster again, and we'd be back to square one in terms of what to do with the extra player and who would it be.... though I confess that would be a problem I'd happily face if Sundin were on our team. Smile

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