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31 Re: Line Predictions: on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:33 pm

asq2


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SeawaySensFan wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:I won't lie, I'm sober and I still don't mind seeing Campbell's name there. Damn that price tag.

He's a damn good player. Just to watch him skate is a treat.

Unfortunately, his defence is pretty horrific.

His contract is for 7 years, too. His skating's not going be at that level for the duration.

I'd avoid him at all costs. I also don't think he's a top-pairing defenceman.

32 Re: Line Predictions: on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:34 pm

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rooneypoo wrote:I'm really surprised to see how many of you are loading up on the first line. We've been a one-line team for how long? And to reward Heatley's 'disgruntlement' and Alfie's loyalty, you're going to surround Heatley with all the talent (Spezza, Kovalev) and leave Alfie hanging with the leftovers, as we've done to him every other time we tried to 'spread out the offence'?

I say no way. You have to develop two solid lines out of these four big players. Create two duos, and then insert a complement on each one. I don't care really how you do it, but it needs to get done.

If you can do that and still somehow keep the FFS line together, you're positively laughing -- although, I agree, that could be a tall order.

The only reason I think people suggest that is because Alfie does actually make the players around him better. Plus he is getting up there. I would like to see him play with Kovalev somehow but one would have to play the off wing. The top lines are rough with a lot of right wings who could play top line minutes (including Heatley who plays well on the right side).

I am not sure what I would do if I was Clouston.

33 Re: Line Predictions: on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:36 pm

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asq2 wrote:
SeawaySensFan wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:I won't lie, I'm sober and I still don't mind seeing Campbell's name there. Damn that price tag.

He's a damn good player. Just to watch him skate is a treat.

Unfortunately, his defence is pretty horrific.

His contract is for 7 years, too. His skating's not going be at that level for the duration.

I'd avoid him at all costs. I also don't think he's a top-pairing defenceman.

I would tend to agree. Soupy at 5 for 5 is about right but he benefitted from being the best of a weak Defenseman UFA crop.

34 Re: Line Predictions: on Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:37 pm

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rooneypoo wrote:I'm really surprised to see how many of you are loading up on the first line. We've been a one-line team for how long? And to reward Heatley's 'disgruntlement' and Alfie's loyalty, you're going to surround Heatley with all the talent (Spezza, Kovalev) and leave Alfie hanging with the leftovers, as we've done to him every other time we tried to 'spread out the offence'?

I say no way. You have to develop two solid lines out of these four big players. Create two duos, and then insert a complement on each one. I don't care really how you do it, but it needs to get done.

If you can do that and still somehow keep the FFS line together, you're positively laughing -- although, I agree, that could be a tall order.

My friend Rooney: so idealistic

How often has the organization done what should be done? I think most of us posted realistic versions of the potential lineup. Would I prefer to keep FFS together? Yeah I would. But something tells me that when Murray calls line 1 "Spezza's line" and line 2 "Fisher's line" that the FFS line will be no more. I don't see how it can remain intact with 4 legitimate top-6 forwards and 3 borderline/emergent top-6 forwards

I personally didn't post what I thought they should do - I've done that in other threads. Instead I posted what I expected them to be. Does Heatley deserve top line minutes after all this bs? Probably not... Will he get top line minutes. Probably...

Also there seems to be a disconnect between your idea here and your theory about not booing him. If the logic behind the latter is to help (or not hinder) his trade value, wouldn't the same logic apply to putting him in the most favourable situations. Assuming he merits such treatment based on his on-ice play, I don't see how you can let this off-ice turmoil interfere.

35 Re: Line Predictions: on Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:42 pm

PTFlea

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rooneypoo wrote:I'm really surprised to see how many of you are loading up on the first line. We've been a one-line team for how long? And to reward Heatley's 'disgruntlement' and Alfie's loyalty, you're going to surround Heatley with all the talent (Spezza, Kovalev) and leave Alfie hanging with the leftovers, as we've done to him every other time we tried to 'spread out the offence'?

I say no way. You have to develop two solid lines out of these four big players. Create two duos, and then insert a complement on each one. I don't care really how you do it, but it needs to get done.

If you can do that and still somehow keep the FFS line together, you're positively laughing -- although, I agree, that could be a tall order.

It's not something that is a punishment, it's that Alfie can adapt to any scenario. 2nd line with Fisher and Foligno? No problem, he can mesh with them right away. Top line with Spezza and Heatley? No problem, he'll be the straw that stirs them.

That's all I meant anyway. I'm curious how Clouston is gonna shake this all out.

36 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:49 am

rooneypoo

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cas wrote:

My friend Rooney: so idealistic

How often has the organization done what should be done? I think most of us posted realistic versions of the potential lineup. Would I prefer to keep FFS together? Yeah I would. But something tells me that when Murray calls line 1 "Spezza's line" and line 2 "Fisher's line" that the FFS line will be no more. I don't see how it can remain intact with 4 legitimate top-6 forwards and 3 borderline/emergent top-6 forwards

I personally didn't post what I thought they should do - I've done that in other threads. Instead I posted what I expected them to be. Does Heatley deserve top line minutes after all this bs? Probably not... Will he get top line minutes. Probably...

Also there seems to be a disconnect between your idea here and your theory about not booing him. If the logic behind the latter is to help (or not hinder) his trade value, wouldn't the same logic apply to putting him in the most favourable situations. Assuming he merits such treatment based on his on-ice play, I don't see how you can let this off-ice turmoil interfere.

No, I don't think so. He's still going to end up playing with one of Alfie, Spezza, or Kovalev. And guys like Fisher and Foligno will probably fill out that top six. This idea isn't about punishing or rewarding Heatley, it's about doing what's best for the team. Creating two formidable lines and making other teams choose which to send out their top D pair against is the scenario you want. They'd be creating space for and complementing each other -- 1A and 1B.

Put it this way: I wouldn't even consider for a second loading up one line with three of those big four. No way. Been there, done that, bought the souvenirs. Teams just send out a responsible centre and their top D pairing against you all night long. It hasn't worked for us for almost 2 years now. Even under Clouston, the 'CASH' line wasn't particularly effective. Time for change. The addition of Kovalev makes that a viable option now.

37 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:46 am

Jordo

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rooneypoo wrote:
No, I don't think so. He's still going to end up playing with one of Alfie, Spezza, or Kovalev. And guys like Fisher and Foligno will probably fill out that top six. This idea isn't about punishing or rewarding Heatley, it's about doing what's best for the team. Creating two formidable lines and making other teams choose which to send out their top D pair against is the scenario you want. They'd be creating space for and complementing each other -- 1A and 1B.

Put it this way: I wouldn't even consider for a second loading up one line with three of those big four. No way. Been there, done that, bought the souvenirs. Teams just send out a responsible centre and their top D pairing against you all night long. It hasn't worked for us for almost 2 years now. Even under Clouston, the 'CASH' line wasn't particularly effective. Time for change. The addition of Kovalev makes that a viable option now.

I totally agree with your sentiments Rooney.That was the thought I put in when I developed my lines-

Foligno-Spezza-Kovalev

I think Foligno is just going to fly around the ice and bury ridiculous passes from Spez and Kov. Not to mention the damage that those two could do on their own....

Heatley-Fisher-Alfredsson
You've got everything here- a sniper, a grinder, and a playmaker. Fisher makes space, Heatley and Alf do the majority of the work- Fish crashes the net.

Dono-Kelly-Shannon
A bit of a departure from the FFS line- but all of the components are still there, with perhaps a little less firepower. Definitely a good and solid energy line with Winchester being an interchangeable piece here.

Ruutu-Bass-Neil
Wow. That's scary.

38 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:58 am

spader

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I LOVE Ruutu/Bass/Neil as a third line. They'll inflict some unbelievable damage and may even pot a few with the opposing team scared to hold onto the puck. That line will cause a lot of turnovers.

Also, I love that pretty much everyone is putting 2 of the top 4 on each of the first 2 lines. Makes so much more sense. It will spread the scoring out, make the Sens much harder to check against and creates a much deeper, more exciting team to watch.

39 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:25 am

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spader wrote:I LOVE Ruutu/Bass/Neil as a third line. They'll inflict some unbelievable damage and may even pot a few with the opposing team scared to hold onto the puck. That line will cause a lot of turnovers.

Also, I love that pretty much everyone is putting 2 of the top 4 on each of the first 2 lines. Makes so much more sense. It will spread the scoring out, make the Sens much harder to check against and creates a much deeper, more exciting team to watch.

I think Smith has taken Bass' job to be honest. Fair or not, that's what it will come down to and Smith is just a better player. I love Bass but he got the short end of it here.

40 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:35 am

SeawaySensFan

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Bass is out. Neil re-upping would have been enough, Smith's impressive development only seals the deal.

Frolov-Spezza-Kovalev
Foligno-Fisher-Alfredsson
Kelly-Stoll-Shannon
Ruutu-Winchester-Neil
Donovan

Kuba-Karlsson
Phillips-Volchenkov
Picard-Campoli
Lee



Last edited by SeawaySensFan on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:50 am; edited 2 times in total

41 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:37 am

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Yup, Smith is just as gritty as bass as well with a lot more offensive potential. That 3rd line has the ability to pot 30-40 goals and make life hell for the other team.

42 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:32 am

Cap'n Clutch

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One thing's for sure. I can be optimistic for at least a couple months. By then we'll know which way this team is heading. I'm excited to get to my first game next week! I know it's only pre-season but it's Hockey, it's the Sens and hopefully I get a good long look at some of our rookies that are potentially on the big club come October.


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43 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:35 am

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rooneypoo wrote:
cas wrote:

My friend Rooney: so idealistic

How often has the organization done what should be done? I think most of us posted realistic versions of the potential lineup. Would I prefer to keep FFS together? Yeah I would. But something tells me that when Murray calls line 1 "Spezza's line" and line 2 "Fisher's line" that the FFS line will be no more. I don't see how it can remain intact with 4 legitimate top-6 forwards and 3 borderline/emergent top-6 forwards

I personally didn't post what I thought they should do - I've done that in other threads. Instead I posted what I expected them to be. Does Heatley deserve top line minutes after all this bs? Probably not... Will he get top line minutes. Probably...

Also there seems to be a disconnect between your idea here and your theory about not booing him. If the logic behind the latter is to help (or not hinder) his trade value, wouldn't the same logic apply to putting him in the most favourable situations. Assuming he merits such treatment based on his on-ice play, I don't see how you can let this off-ice turmoil interfere.

No, I don't think so. He's still going to end up playing with one of Alfie, Spezza, or Kovalev. And guys like Fisher and Foligno will probably fill out that top six. This idea isn't about punishing or rewarding Heatley, it's about doing what's best for the team. Creating two formidable lines and making other teams choose which to send out their top D pair against is the scenario you want. They'd be creating space for and complementing each other -- 1A and 1B.

Put it this way: I wouldn't even consider for a second loading up one line with three of those big four. No way. Been there, done that, bought the souvenirs. Teams just send out a responsible centre and their top D pairing against you all night long. It hasn't worked for us for almost 2 years now. Even under Clouston, the 'CASH' line wasn't particularly effective. Time for change. The addition of Kovalev makes that a viable option now.

Yeah I don't disagree. I'm just not used to the Sens putting out logical line combinations... There are far fewer weak spots on the team going into this season and the players that have come in and solidified spots (Winchester, Ruutu, Foligno, Shannon, Kovalev) are far more versatile than those they replaced.

Personally, I would like to see some experimentation done to see if we could keep the FFS line together. If not, Jordo's lines look great - with the notable exception that Winchester will be on this team and there isn't a single doubt about that. Believing otherwise is faulty.... If it comes to Smith, Winchester, and Bass for that 12th spot, Winchester gets it. Not a question, here.

As for lines with FFS together, it would require two of Kelly, Winchester, Ruutu, Neil, Smith, Bass, and Donovan to fill out the top two lines - the most likely being Kelly and Winchester. Put Heatley and Spezza on different lines (which is a must if you want to split the 4 into duos) and Kovalev and Alfie on the right wing on either of the first two lines; two possibilities look like this:

Winchester-Spezza-Alfie/Kovie
Heatley-Kelly-Alfie/Kovie

or

Kelly-Spezza-Alfie/Kovie
Heatley-Winchester-Alfie/Kovie

I would be inclined to go with option 1 given the success the trio (with Alfie) had during Spezza, Fisher, and Vermette's injuries 2 years ago.

It also gets Donovan out of the top-12 and gives one of Bass or Smith the opportunity to fill the 4th line centre role. I agree Smith has the edge.

44 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:40 am

Cap'n Clutch

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Chemistry plays a big part in this and if pulling Alfie off of the line with Spezza and Heatley has the usual predictable results then it won't be long before they're re-united.

I also think that a Foligno, Fisher, Kovalev line is a very legitimate scoring threat as was the FFS line before it. Switching up Kovalev for Shannon, in theory, should only make it better.

Regardless it'll be interesting to see what happens and how the lines are put together once the regular season starts.


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45 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:44 am

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Heatley and Spezza are USELESS as a duo without Alfie. Should the team decide to go with a 50/50 split, Heatley and Spezza should never be one of those duos... They are the easiest combo to check in the entire NHL. No thanks.

46 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:53 am

SeawaySensFan

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Cap'n Clutch wrote:Chemistry plays a big part in this and if pulling Alfie off of the line with Spezza and Heatley has the usual predictable results then it won't be long before they're re-united.

I also think that a Foligno, Fisher, Kovalev line is a very legitimate scoring threat as was the FFS line before it. Switching up Kovalev for Shannon, in theory, should only make it better.

Regardless it'll be interesting to see what happens and how the lines are put together once the regular season starts.

Playing with Fisher will only make Kovalev seem "enigmatic". He'll be back to hanging on to the puck too long because Fisher doesn't have the hockey sense to get himself in scoring position. That was the problem in Montreal with the crap linemates he had there.

At least Alfie can adjust.

47 Re: Line Predictions: on Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:02 pm

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Thats a really good point SSF

48 Re: Line Predictions: on Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:36 am

Jordo

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Cheechoo-Spezza-Kovalev
Michalek-Fisher-Alfredsson
Foligno-Kelly-Shannon
Ruutu-Winchester-Bass
Donovan

Kuba-Karlsson
Phil-Volch
Campoli-Lee/Picard
Lee-Picard

I put Cheechoo on that top line because he needs someone to feed him the puck. I think that Spezz/Kovy together will give him a ton of opportunities to bury it.
The 2nd line is going to be insane to watch with Fisher/Michalek playing together and Alfie rounding them out. It's a highly effective energy line with a stockpile of talent as well. Although BM said Michalek will be top line, I think Cheechoo is a better fit up there- at least to start out.
Kelly replaces Fisher on the FFS line, and will be called upon to produce. Although Kelly is smaller, he plays a similar game and I think he can step into this role quite nicely.

That 4th line is just going to be nasty to play against. Whether you put Bass or Winchester on that line- it's going to be tough...

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