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Bettman: "Salary Cap will NOT go down next year"; and GMHockey investigates NHL attendance

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asq2


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Silly guy doesn't know soccer is played with your feet.

wprager


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Do these numbers look right?

Tuesday night’s meeting between the Senators and the Toronto Maple Leafs — usually a slam dunk sellout — drew an announced crowd of 17,406 to Scotiabank Place, which has an official capacity of 19,153 but can hold up to 20,500.

I thought 18,500 or 18,200 was a sellout. My memory is fuzzy but I was pretty sure it was not over 19,000. And 20,500 has to be including standing room. Both inside and out.

Some more, interesting figures for the "sky is falling crowd":

According to attendance figures published in the Senators’ game notes, through 12 homes games this season, the Senators have attracted 217,808 fans for an average of 18,151 fans a game.

The Senators averaged 19,081 for the entire season last year meaning the Senators are down an average of 930 fans a game. It’s believed the NHL’s average ticket price is in the ballpark of $56 US, and it’s probably reasonable to assume the Senators’ is slightly more than that.

That would mean the dip is costing the Senators close to $56,000 a game. Projected over an entire season, that comes out to a loss in ticket revenue of $2.3 million US. The hit to the bottom line, of course, is much more than that since having almost 1,000 fans fewer at the rink means fewer cars parked, hot dogs eaten and beers consumed.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Ottawa/2009/11/18/11800831-sun.html

davetherave


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Uncle Eugene reacts to Prager's post:

Bettman: "Salary Cap will NOT go down next year"; and GMHockey investigates NHL attendance - Page 9 19136410

shabbs

shabbs
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wprager wrote:Do these numbers look right?

Tuesday night’s meeting between the Senators and the Toronto Maple Leafs — usually a slam dunk sellout — drew an announced crowd of 17,406 to Scotiabank Place, which has an official capacity of 19,153 but can hold up to 20,500.

I thought 18,500 or 18,200 was a sellout. My memory is fuzzy but I was pretty sure it was not over 19,000. And 20,500 has to be including standing room. Both inside and out.

Some more, interesting figures for the "sky is falling crowd":

According to attendance figures published in the Senators’ game notes, through 12 homes games this season, the Senators have attracted 217,808 fans for an average of 18,151 fans a game.

The Senators averaged 19,081 for the entire season last year meaning the Senators are down an average of 930 fans a game. It’s believed the NHL’s average ticket price is in the ballpark of $56 US, and it’s probably reasonable to assume the Senators’ is slightly more than that.

That would mean the dip is costing the Senators close to $56,000 a game. Projected over an entire season, that comes out to a loss in ticket revenue of $2.3 million US. The hit to the bottom line, of course, is much more than that since having almost 1,000 fans fewer at the rink means fewer cars parked, hot dogs eaten and beers consumed.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Ottawa/2009/11/18/11800831-sun.html
Well, Wiki has the capacities as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotiabank_Place

Capacity:
- Hockey: 19,153 (20,500 with standing room)
- Basketball: 20,500 (without standing room)

They cite the following:

http://www2.scotiabankplace.com/eng/building/history.cfm

"Through a City of Ottawa review of by-laws in December 2004, the Corel Centre is allowed to increase its seating capacity to 19,153 and total attendance to 20,500."

Did they actually do that though?

I used to think it was 18,500 but it seems the new number is indeed 19,153.

Cap'n Clutch

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shabbs wrote:
wprager wrote:Do these numbers look right?

Tuesday night’s meeting between the Senators and the Toronto Maple Leafs — usually a slam dunk sellout — drew an announced crowd of 17,406 to Scotiabank Place, which has an official capacity of 19,153 but can hold up to 20,500.

I thought 18,500 or 18,200 was a sellout. My memory is fuzzy but I was pretty sure it was not over 19,000. And 20,500 has to be including standing room. Both inside and out.

Some more, interesting figures for the "sky is falling crowd":

According to attendance figures published in the Senators’ game notes, through 12 homes games this season, the Senators have attracted 217,808 fans for an average of 18,151 fans a game.

The Senators averaged 19,081 for the entire season last year meaning the Senators are down an average of 930 fans a game. It’s believed the NHL’s average ticket price is in the ballpark of $56 US, and it’s probably reasonable to assume the Senators’ is slightly more than that.

That would mean the dip is costing the Senators close to $56,000 a game. Projected over an entire season, that comes out to a loss in ticket revenue of $2.3 million US. The hit to the bottom line, of course, is much more than that since having almost 1,000 fans fewer at the rink means fewer cars parked, hot dogs eaten and beers consumed.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Ottawa/2009/11/18/11800831-sun.html
Well, Wiki has the capacities as follows:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotiabank_Place

Capacity:
- Hockey: 19,153 (20,500 with standing room)
- Basketball: 20,500 (without standing room)

They cite the following:

http://www2.scotiabankplace.com/eng/building/history.cfm

"Through a City of Ottawa review of by-laws in December 2004, the Corel Centre is allowed to increase its seating capacity to 19,153 and total attendance to 20,500."

Did they actually do that though?

I used to think it was 18,500 but it seems the new number is indeed 19,153.

I believe they simply added capacity to all of the suites in order to get to the 19,153 number. I'm pretty sure they built the stadium with the intention of increasing capacity if they could obtain approval.


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shabbs

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Well, then ESPN's capacity stats are wrong as they are basing all their percentages on 18,500.

Cap'n Clutch

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shabbs wrote:Well, then ESPN's capacity stats are wrong as they are basing all their percentages on 18,500.

Does that surprise you? Laughing3


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"A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world."

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shabbs

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Cap'n Clutch wrote:
shabbs wrote:Well, then ESPN's capacity stats are wrong as they are basing all their percentages on 18,500.

Does that surprise you? Laughing3
It actually does.

What other places list/track NHL attendance stats?

Prager - where are you getting your data from?

wprager

wprager
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From here:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2010

And there goes my perfect record of not posting from work. Sad I've got an excuse, though, just waiting for the bus.


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
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wprager

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This week the average attendance dipped by just 8. We may have bottomed out, but are we in for a bounce? Time will tell.


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

davetherave

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The Citizen reports the Sens are hurting at the box office:

Sens falling behind in attendance game
Scott Nowoselski, The Ottawa Citizen; November 27, 2009

While Ottawa Senators players have been showing up for games more consistently this season, the same cannot be said for their fans.

Although the team temporarily claimed the Northeast Division lead with a 4-3 win over Washington Monday, there were only 16,210 fans on hand to witness the victory at Scotiabank Place. The draw was the lowest attendance figure at a Senators home game since before the lockout -- and that was with Alex Ovechkin on the ice.

Thursday night's announced attendance for the game against Columbus was 19,244.

While Senators attendance has been swooning all season, the front office isn't showing signs of worry -- yet.

Jeff Kyle, Senators vice-president of marketing, said that while the club will re-evaluate its ticket sales programs later next month, the team isn't doing anything out of the ordinary to boost sales in the short term.

Kyle attributed much of the team's early season ticket troubles to a decrease in season-ticket sales due to the economy and a front-loaded home schedule in which 16 of the club's first 23 games are at home.

Overall, the Senators' average season attendance had sunk to 17,886 before Thursday's game against the Columbus Blue Jackets, a decrease of 1,195 fans a game from a year ago.

The Senators haven't seen an attendance figure that low since the 2003-04 season, when the team averaged 17,759 fans per game at the then Corel Centre.

More here:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/hockey/ottawa-senators/Sens+falling+behind+attendance+game/2274322/story.html

---

Not good news for Mr. Melnyk, who lost money on the club last year.

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Well having 16 homes games in less then two months, people actually have to budget. Not selling out The Leafs, Pens, and Caps games are a direct results of that. That and ticket prices in the crappier seats being way over priced.

Who ever markets The Sens is a moron anyways because it's god awful going to a game sometimes and hearing, listening, and expierncing a live game.

I love watching the actual game so I dont personally care what they put up on the big screen or w/e, what the slogan is and so on, but the casual fan does and it;s embarassing. From that dumb spartan to the red alert, it's awful and Ottawa needs to figure that out more then anything.

wprager

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wprager wrote:This week the average attendance dipped by just 8. We may have bottomed out, but are we in for a bounce? Time will tell.

Uh-oh. False bottom. We dropped again this week (sorry for the late update -- was out of town and all).

Bettman: "Salary Cap will NOT go down next year"; and GMHockey investigates NHL attendance - Page 9 2010%20attendance


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

wprager

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And another drop this week. I'm not going to repost the chart image since I'm just updating the same location -- the chart in the post above is showing the latest anyway.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

wprager

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http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Banner+year+eludes+Senators+team+sales+cool/2360532/story.html

The 22.8-per-cent drop is third-highest in the league, behind only the Phoenix Coyotes and the Tampa Bay Lightning. In the 30-team league, the Senators have fallen from seventh place in paid attendance to 19th.

The Senators’ reported attendance has not fallen as far — only about seven per cent — because the number of free tickets issued by the team has increased dramatically.


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

Riprock

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Here's what I think the problem is. The people that will go to the games usually will buy the lowest priced tickets, which as Neely said and I agree with, are still pretty pricey. When I go to a game and buy tickets, it has always been in the 300s. IF I have ever seen a game from closer, and I can't recall, would have been if I won them or they were from my dad's work giving them away. I can't really afford to pay $30-50 per seat to see a game, at least not very often. The most games I saw in a season was when I was a student and took advantage of the $17 seats.

A lot of the games I have gone to, I notice a lot of empty seats in the 100s and 200s. Seems like a clear message that fans will go to games, but not at the price you want for those seats. You lower those prices, a lot of people in the 300s will move down, and those seats will get sold to more people who cannot afford the 100-200 levels.

Food and Bev. is marked-up way too much, so I avoid that. I also rarely park in the lots. Normally will walk from KRC or SensPlex. Besides being free, you normally get to your car in the same amount of time it would have taken you to get out of the lot.

wprager

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Lots of restaurants around Kanata have a shuttle that will take you to/from SBP. That $12 or $13 you save on parking will pay for one of your entrees, and the shuttle gets you there/back quicker.

Some people in the comment section of the quoted article are complaining about SBP being "out of town"? And if they put it where the War Museum is (forget for a moment that the City would not allow that), do they *really* think that the 2-lane, 50 km/hr Riverside Parkway would move 18K+ people any faster?

There is no disputing that the parking lots are a mess, but there are lots of ways around that. Stick around for the 3 star selection; walk around the SBP; stop for a quick drink; take a shuttle; take the bus (park at the Park and Ride). Fewer cars at the SBP will help everyone.


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

Riprock

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I honestly don't mind the walk, I think it is fun. The shuttle service still costs you the price of a meal, so not really an option for most people, but I have done that and it works.

The other thing that is a piss off is when you think you're getting tickets for $14.00 and they end up costing you $25 when it is all said and done. Capital Tickets is just a way for the Sens to get more money (not that I agree with what TicketMaster does either).

I think that Kanata was the best place for the arena - no problems there. But I do think now having lived in the GTA that Ottawa's traffic system is poorly designed.

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