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Who won the Kovalchuk trade?

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Who won the Kovalchuk trade?

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61Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:56 pm

SeawaySensFan


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Cap'n Clutch wrote:Murray was just a tire kicker though right?

Once you start naming players, you're no longer kicking tires. Of course, I have no idea if it ever came to that. But if it didn't, it should never have been reported at all.

62Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:59 pm

Hoags


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No way would Murray offer up A-train with us gunning for home-ice advantage in the playoffs.

63Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:00 pm

beedub


Veteran
Veteran
Cap'n Clutch wrote:
Devo wrote:
beedub wrote:
marakh wrote:Lou just said on NHL LIve that it was ATL that requested Cormier, and that the Devils organization didn't want him to be in the mix.

And why not. His agression streak aside, he's good enough skill wise to captain the WJC Canadian team, I'd want him too

You also thought that Toronto was a better team than Ottawa.....

And that Toronto would be in 8th or 9th by the end of the season.

Wow, get out the daggers, Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 62136 I said, hockey wise, Cormier is a great prospect. IF they can get his agression controlled. IF they can then he's gonna be like a Sean Avery with skill. Yes, please! Great player to have.

Toronto IS a better team than their record indicates, and don't be suprised to see them climb steadily in the next 20 games. Their defence corps is better than Ottawa's, even with Komisarek out (actually I think it improves with him out Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 270956 )

9th is not out of the question. Giguere is money, while Elliot is streaking (again). Let's talk again when he wakes up (again)

64Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:04 pm

Hoags

Hoags
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beedub wrote:
Toronto IS a better team than their record indicates, and don't be suprised to see them climb steadily in the next 20 games. Their defence corps is better than Ottawa's, even with Komisarek out (actually I think it improves with him out Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 270956 )

9th is not out of the question. Giguere is money, while Elliot is streaking (again). Let's talk again when he wakes up (again)

You mean the 30th in the NHL on penalty kill and GA/G defence ?

Toronto's defence is overhyped and overpaid.

65Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:04 pm

Cap'n Clutch

Cap'n Clutch
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beedub wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:
Devo wrote:
beedub wrote:
marakh wrote:Lou just said on NHL LIve that it was ATL that requested Cormier, and that the Devils organization didn't want him to be in the mix.

And why not. His agression streak aside, he's good enough skill wise to captain the WJC Canadian team, I'd want him too

You also thought that Toronto was a better team than Ottawa.....

And that Toronto would be in 8th or 9th by the end of the season.

Wow, get out the daggers, Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 62136 I said, hockey wise, Cormier is a great prospect. IF they can get his agression controlled. IF they can then he's gonna be like a Sean Avery with skill. Yes, please! Great player to have.

Toronto IS a better team than their record indicates, and don't be suprised to see them climb steadily in the next 20 games. Their defence corps is better than Ottawa's, even with Komisarek out (actually I think it improves with him out Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 270956 )

9th is not out of the question. Giguere is money, while Elliot is streaking (again). Let's talk again when he wakes up (again)

And I suppose Anaheim got rid of J.S "Money" Giguere because he's so great and can lead their team to the promise land and replaced him with Jason "Too much Money" Blake and Vesa "Can't stop the puck" Toskala with your thinking in mind?

Lets see if Giggy can wake up at all.


_________________
"A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world."

- Unknown Author

66Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:05 pm

LeCaptain

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SpezDispenser wrote:
Devo wrote:Ottawa sun is stating that Atlanta wouldn't bite on Cheechoo, and that Murray may have also dangled Lee...


Really if Waddel had been reading this board then he would realize that both players are anything but players Murray really wants in the organization.

BS. Murray dangled Wiercioch, Foligno, Cheechoo (dump), and one of Silfverberg or Petersson OR a 1st round pick. That's my official guess.

Doesn't work salary wise. I'm guessing Volchie, Cheechoo, Foligno and a 1st.

67Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:07 pm

SeawaySensFan

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Hoags wrote:No way would Murray offer up A-train with us gunning for home-ice advantage in the playoffs.

Our problem isn't defense or PKing, it's a PP that's currently dead last. Like it or not, you gotta give to get. Lou-cifer didn't get Kovalchuk for nothing.

68Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:20 pm

PKC

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SpezDispenser wrote:Very impressed with them getting Oduya and Bergfors. If I was a Thrashers fan I would have been really hoping for Tenenby, but Cormier isn't worthless. It's a tidy trade, I'm surprised at the reaction from people to be honest.

However....what Waddell does from here on in is important too. He needs to trade for some offence now - and I can imagine there are a few GMs that might be pissed that they lost this sweeps and drive the price up.

Because we're looking at a trade that happened just before that, where a supposedly declining asset, who's a cancer in his locker room according to many people was traded for a signed 30-goal scorer, a young top four defenseman with 40+ point potential, a 60-point second line center and a scrub.

Meanwhile, here you have Atlanta trading what many consider to be at minimum a top 10 talent in the league, if not top 5, and they get a 29-year-old defensive defenseman, a young roster player who's a minus on the best defensive team in the league, a prospect who's got a better reputation for trying to kill guys with cheap shots and a first round pick that's likely to yield not much in what many consider a serious dropdown in talent from the previous years' drafts.

Yes, Phaneuf is signed and Kovalchuk isn't. But it's hard to understand this trade in any sort of way. Atlanta screwed themselves. If you're an Atlanta fan, and you want to buy a jersey, who's name are you gonna get on the back? Ask yourself that question.

If you're thinking about going to a pro-sports game and you can choose between the Falcons, Braves, Hawks and Thrashers, who are you going to see? Are you gonna go see a team that doesn't have a marquee name on the roster?

This team just shot itself in the foot. They could have given Kovalchuk the big money that he wanted with the amount of young talent coming up the pipes to play for cheap.

This trade is the death of a franchise, I guarantee it.

69Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:32 pm

Hoags

Hoags
All-Star
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Kovalchuk got an offer that matched all his requirements and he still turned it down.

He does not want to play for Atlanta.

I think he will sign for a reasonable long-term contract with a real team, much like Gaborik signed with the Rags for less than the Wild offered him.

Atlanta should have seen this coming and traded him for more last season. Every team in the NHL knew Waddell's back was against the wall on this.

70Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:33 pm

Devo


Sophomore
Sophomore
SeawaySensFan wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:Murray was just a tire kicker though right?

Once you start naming players, you're no longer kicking tires. Of course, I have no idea if it ever came to that. But if it didn't, it should never have been reported at all.

We're assuming the fat bastard actually knows the details of what happened. Knowing how things in Ottawa have been run, and the fact that they almost never (and still no one has proved to me the Heatley to Edm trade player names were leaked from Ottawa) release names, then this either came from Atlanta, or someone in the NHL circle. In which case it's either heresy or it's a list of players that Atlanta threw out and looked for a reponse from Ottawa.

Either way, Murray was never more than kicking the tires. We do know that in order to get his 6.5 million salary to fit under the cap at least 2 roster players (and significant contracts) would have to have been moved. Cheechoo makes sense, but the other...who knows.

71Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:34 pm

beedub

beedub
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Cap'n Clutch wrote:
beedub wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:
Devo wrote:
beedub wrote:
marakh wrote:Lou just said on NHL LIve that it was ATL that requested Cormier, and that the Devils organization didn't want him to be in the mix.

And why not. His agression streak aside, he's good enough skill wise to captain the WJC Canadian team, I'd want him too

You also thought that Toronto was a better team than Ottawa.....

And that Toronto would be in 8th or 9th by the end of the season.

Wow, get out the daggers, Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 62136 I said, hockey wise, Cormier is a great prospect. IF they can get his agression controlled. IF they can then he's gonna be like a Sean Avery with skill. Yes, please! Great player to have.

Toronto IS a better team than their record indicates, and don't be suprised to see them climb steadily in the next 20 games. Their defence corps is better than Ottawa's, even with Komisarek out (actually I think it improves with him out Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 270956 )

9th is not out of the question. Giguere is money, while Elliot is streaking (again). Let's talk again when he wakes up (again)

And I suppose Anaheim got rid of J.S "Money" Giguere because he's so great and can lead their team to the promise land and replaced him with Jason "Too much Money" Blake and Vesa "Can't stop the puck" Toskala with your thinking in mind?

Lets see if Giggy can wake up at all.

If you think Toskala gets more that a couple of games in relief of Jonas Hiller, you're deluded. That was a salary dump. Hello.

Giguere didn't end up backing up Hiller because he sucked, he was backing up Hiller cause Hiller is that good. ergo the extension. Did Ana want to get stuck with paying their goalies over 11 mil?? Nope. They dumped salary, Toronto dumped salary and picked up.....oh yeah, a Stanley Cup winning goaltender. Tell me exactly how this doesn't work in Toronto's favour?

72Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:35 pm

LeCaptain

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Bergfors is a rookie, dude. He is a 0.5 PPG player on the 3rd line. Talking about his +/- suggest to me you haven't watched him play enough.
The 29 year old defenseman is pretty solid.
It's pretty easy to understand this trade for me.


This team just shot itself in the foot. They could have given Kovalchuk
the big money that he wanted with the amount of young talent coming up
the pipes to play for cheap.

Where have you been for the last 24 hours? He turned down 10Mx7, and 12 years / 100M. You really think he's worth more than Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby with 1 playoff goal in his resume?

Can you tell me the difference between Kovalchuk and Heatley apart from the fact the one was signed long term and everybody knew, 3 months before his trade that he wanted out?

73Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:36 pm

LeCaptain

LeCaptain
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Seriously, at this point, what's the difference between Heatley and Kovalchuk? BOth wanted out because they don't believe in the team in place.

74Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:46 pm

ddt

ddt
Rookie
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rooneypoo wrote:Again, you look at FLA and JBo, and that could have been ATL's fate, too. Bergfors, Oduya, Cormier, and an extra first rounder looks a hell of a lot sweeter than a 3rd and Leopold.

The main difference there though is that Calgary did not get JBo as a rental. The deal was only to get advance negotiating rights for him.

75Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:46 pm

Devo


Sophomore
Sophomore
beedub wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:
Devo wrote:
beedub wrote:
marakh wrote:Lou just said on NHL LIve that it was ATL that requested Cormier, and that the Devils organization didn't want him to be in the mix.

And why not. His agression streak aside, he's good enough skill wise to captain the WJC Canadian team, I'd want him too

You also thought that Toronto was a better team than Ottawa.....

And that Toronto would be in 8th or 9th by the end of the season.

Wow, get out the daggers, Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 62136 I said, hockey wise, Cormier is a great prospect. IF they can get his agression controlled. IF they can then he's gonna be like a Sean Avery with skill. Yes, please! Great player to have.

Toronto IS a better team than their record indicates, and don't be suprised to see them climb steadily in the next 20 games. Their defence corps is better than Ottawa's, even with Komisarek out (actually I think it improves with him out Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 270956 )

9th is not out of the question. Giguere is money, while Elliot is streaking (again). Let's talk again when he wakes up (again)


Laughing3

That's great...I needed that on a friday afternoon..
Laughing3

wait...you weren't kidding...

Have you not learned anything...

The post I referred to also had you quoted as saying that "The Monster" would single handedly lead them into the playoffs, and that Toskala would help, but that it wouldn't be required...

You traded your best defense man to get a problem child...

76Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:57 pm

rooneypoo

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All-Star
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ddt wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:Again, you look at FLA and JBo, and that could have been ATL's fate, too. Bergfors, Oduya, Cormier, and an extra first rounder looks a hell of a lot sweeter than a 3rd and Leopold.

The main difference there though is that Calgary did not get JBo as a rental. The deal was only to get advance negotiating rights for him.

Precisely. That's what happens why you gamble with the future of your franchise. If those key guys won't sign, you have to trade them before the deadline. Have to. Where would FLA be now if they had moved JBo before the deadline last year? With at least an additional 1st rounder, a high talent prospect, a decent young roster player -- and, if they really wanted him, a Leopold?

FLA gambled and lost, ATL gambled and lost less. It's a bad spot for these franchises no matter how you look at it, but you do what's best for the franchise. Better to do as ATL did than be left with no options and settle for junk like FLA.

77Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:39 pm

Cap'n Clutch

Cap'n Clutch
Co-Founder
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beedub wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:
beedub wrote:
Cap'n Clutch wrote:
Devo wrote:
beedub wrote:
marakh wrote:Lou just said on NHL LIve that it was ATL that requested Cormier, and that the Devils organization didn't want him to be in the mix.

And why not. His agression streak aside, he's good enough skill wise to captain the WJC Canadian team, I'd want him too

You also thought that Toronto was a better team than Ottawa.....

And that Toronto would be in 8th or 9th by the end of the season.

Wow, get out the daggers, Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 62136 I said, hockey wise, Cormier is a great prospect. IF they can get his agression controlled. IF they can then he's gonna be like a Sean Avery with skill. Yes, please! Great player to have.

Toronto IS a better team than their record indicates, and don't be suprised to see them climb steadily in the next 20 games. Their defence corps is better than Ottawa's, even with Komisarek out (actually I think it improves with him out Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 270956 )

9th is not out of the question. Giguere is money, while Elliot is streaking (again). Let's talk again when he wakes up (again)

And I suppose Anaheim got rid of J.S "Money" Giguere because he's so great and can lead their team to the promise land and replaced him with Jason "Too much Money" Blake and Vesa "Can't stop the puck" Toskala with your thinking in mind?

Lets see if Giggy can wake up at all.

If you think Toskala gets more that a couple of games in relief of Jonas Hiller, you're deluded. That was a salary dump. Hello.

Giguere didn't end up backing up Hiller because he sucked, he was backing up Hiller cause Hiller is that good. ergo the extension. Did Ana want to get stuck with paying their goalies over 11 mil?? Nope. They dumped salary, Toronto dumped salary and picked up.....oh yeah, a Stanley Cup winning goaltender. Tell me exactly how this doesn't work in Toronto's favour?

Giggy being a salary dump means he's not a saviour like you're making him out to be. If he was then Anaheim wouldn't have taken on the Anchor that TO sent them.


_________________
"A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world."

- Unknown Author

78Who won the Kovalchuk trade? - Page 5 Empty Re: Who won the Kovalchuk trade? on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:38 pm

beedub

beedub
Veteran
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I should have worded it better. Giguere was expendable and more expensive of the two. If Hiller is going to give you the 'tending you need, and is two million dollars cheaper than the other, it's not a head scratcher.

If Hiller's not as good as he is, Giguere is their number 1, no question. When you have two assets and only need one, move it out. Toskala's salary comes off at the end of the year, not sure why they took on Blake, that's why I would give Burke the edge on that one. Sure Giggy is expensive, but he'll give them dependable goaltending, something sorely lacking in TO.

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