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Souray waived!

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61Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:12 pm

Guest


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Dash wrote:So they can waive him again and again lol?

haha I think they got the answer they were looking for when no one claimed a legit 10 goal, 40 point D-man for free Souray waived! - Page 5 663118

62Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:25 pm

Ev


Franchise Player
Franchise Player
SpezDispenser wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
Well even if they assign him to their AHL affiliate- which is in Oklahoma City by the way- I don't think he would go. They will definately find a trade partner, it's only a matter of time.

If he doesn't go, then he's in breach on contract and the Oilers wouldn't have to pay him a red penny. Works out for them for sure - and if Souray knows there's someone who'll pay him 3.5 a year, he might opt out of Edmonton's contract by breaching it and then sign on with another team.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? I can't recall seeing a guy who might breach to get out of a contract and the team wanting him to do it.

PS I didn't realize it was Oklahoma City. What happened to Springfield?

I can't remember a waiver scenario like this one...maybe in other sports but not hockey (lately at least).

I'm not sure why they left Springfield Souray waived! - Page 5 105237 but I just know they moved to OKC.

63Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:38 pm

Riprock


All-Star
All-Star
Gohan wrote:
Dash wrote:So they can waive him again and again lol?

haha I think they got the answer they were looking for when no one claimed a legit 10 goal, 40 point D-man for free Souray waived! - Page 5 663118

I think that teams just didn't want to make that decision at this point, perhaps wanted to wait and see if they could sign a FA or until they re-signed their own players and knew what there team looked like.

64Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:26 am

rooneypoo

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Dash wrote:Sure, but I thought that when you waived a player, teams had a chance to claim them. If the player passes unclaimed, the team then either assigns them to the AHL, in which case they would have to go through re-entry waivers if recalled. But if they don't assign you I thought after so long has passed you were still part of the NHL team? Maybe Rooney can explain, he knows this stuff.

This waiver and re-entry waiver stuff causes people a lot of grief. Let me explain it as best I as I know how.

STEP 1: Put on waivers

Any team can put a player (without a NMC) on waivers. There are at least two types of waivers (of the non- re-entry variety) that I know of: regular waivers, and unconditional waivers. Unconditional waivers are the kind you put a guy on right before you buy him out. You don't see them in any other situation, I think, and to be honest I don't know much about them beyond that, so let's just focus on regular waivers, which is the kind of waivers you see most NHLers put on.

STEP 2: The waiver claim period

Once you've been put on waivers, the other 29 teams in the league get a chance to claim you. The order of priority is the NHL standings as of that date, in reverse order. The waiver period usually lasts 24 or 48 hours, depending on what day the player is put on waivers -- 24 hours for most weekdays, but 48 for the weekends, I believe. Anyway, the only issue is that the league wants to give each and every team ample time to be aware of the situation, and to make a decision.

a) If a team claims a player, it's done. The team takes the player and his contract, and it's all over. Nothing else to talk about.

b) If no team takes the player, then it's a whole new ball game. And this is the situation that we're interested in right now.

STEP 3: Unclaimed off of waivers

If no team claims the player, then the team has something like 30 days or 10 games (I can't remember the precise numbers, but they're in this neighbourhood) to decide what to do with the guy. In all circumstances, a player who has been waived but not claimed or re-assigned to the minors remains with the team and his salary on the cap books. The team saves zero dollars. Financially and roster-wise, it's as if nothing has happened. This is a point people always get wrong, hence the italics.

Anyway, a team has to decide what to do with the guy in this period. If it passes and they do nothing, the team loses the ability to demote him to the minors -- if they then wanted to do so, they'd have to put him on waivers again and he'd have to clear again. (So, yes, hypothetically, you could put a guy on waivers a number of times in one seasons.) But again, the other situation (they re-assign him to the minors) is what interests us here, so I'll stick to that.

STEP 4: Re-assignment to the minors and re-entry waivers

If a team has waived and player and no one claims him, and they decide they want him off the team and off the cap books, then they can re-assign him to the minor league affiliate. However, this can only be done during the NHL's regular season -- there has to be a minor league team playing hockey to make this work. This is why Souray can't be put on re-entry waivers right now, for instance. You'll remember we didn't put Ray Emery on re-entry waivers either, and that's because we couldn't assign him to the minors give the time of year (in fact, we put him on unconditional waivers).

If the team assigns the unclaimed player to the minor league affiliate during the regular season, then that player (notionally or in actual fact) joins the minor league team. At this point, the only way the player can play in the NHL again is if he is put on re-entry waivers. Remembering all the conditions for re-entry waivers is key: it takes some work and time to get a guy on re-entry -- you don't just snap your fingers and make it happen, as people too often assume. Anyway, when a guy's on re-entry waivers, again every team has a chance to claim him -- the order is again the NHL standings at the moment, in reverse -- with the claiming team getting the player and 1/2 the contact, and the original team getting the other 1/2 of the salary (cap hit and real money). Sean Avery is an example every one will remember -- Dallas is on the hook for half his salary, for each and every year of that contract.

And that's a crash course in waivers. Smile

65Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:45 am

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
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So, then, he remains in limbo (and on their books) until a deal is made or he can be assigned.

66Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:48 am

Riprock

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Thanks Souray waived! - Page 5 457303

67Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:46 am

Cap'n Clutch

Cap'n Clutch
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
rooneypoo wrote:
Dash wrote:Sure, but I thought that when you waived a player, teams had a chance to claim them. If the player passes unclaimed, the team then either assigns them to the AHL, in which case they would have to go through re-entry waivers if recalled. But if they don't assign you I thought after so long has passed you were still part of the NHL team? Maybe Rooney can explain, he knows this stuff.

This waiver and re-entry waiver stuff causes people a lot of grief. Let me explain it as best I as I know how.

STEP 1: Put on waivers

Any team can put a player (without a NMC) on waivers. There are at least two types of waivers (of the non- re-entry variety) that I know of: regular waivers, and unconditional waivers. Unconditional waivers are the kind you put a guy on right before you buy him out. You don't see them in any other situation, I think, and to be honest I don't know much about them beyond that, so let's just focus on regular waivers, which is the kind of waivers you see most NHLers put on.

STEP 2: The waiver claim period

Once you've been put on waivers, the other 29 teams in the league get a chance to claim you. The order of priority is the NHL standings as of that date, in reverse order. The waiver period usually lasts 24 or 48 hours, depending on what day the player is put on waivers -- 24 hours for most weekdays, but 48 for the weekends, I believe. Anyway, the only issue is that the league wants to give each and every team ample time to be aware of the situation, and to make a decision.

a) If a team claims a player, it's done. The team takes the player and his contract, and it's all over. Nothing else to talk about.

b) If no team takes the player, then it's a whole new ball game. And this is the situation that we're interested in right now.

STEP 3: Unclaimed off of waivers

If no team claims the player, then the team has something like 30 days or 10 games (I can't remember the precise numbers, but they're in this neighbourhood) to decide what to do with the guy. In all circumstances, a player who has been waived but not claimed or re-assigned to the minors remains with the team and his salary on the cap books. The team saves zero dollars. Financially and roster-wise, it's as if nothing has happened. This is a point people always get wrong, hence the italics.

Anyway, a team has to decide what to do with the guy in this period. If it passes and they do nothing, the team loses the ability to demote him to the minors -- if they then wanted to do so, they'd have to put him on waivers again and he'd have to clear again. (So, yes, hypothetically, you could put a guy on waivers a number of times in one seasons.) But again, the other situation (they re-assign him to the minors) is what interests us here, so I'll stick to that.

STEP 4: Re-assignment to the minors and re-entry waivers

If a team has waived and player and no one claims him, and they decide they want him off the team and off the cap books, then they can re-assign him to the minor league affiliate. However, this can only be done during the NHL's regular season -- there has to be a minor league team playing hockey to make this work. This is why Souray can't be put on re-entry waivers right now, for instance. You'll remember we didn't put Ray Emery on re-entry waivers either, and that's because we couldn't assign him to the minors give the time of year (in fact, we put him on unconditional waivers).

If the team assigns the unclaimed player to the minor league affiliate during the regular season, then that player (notionally or in actual fact) joins the minor league team. At this point, the only way the player can play in the NHL again is if he is put on re-entry waivers. Remembering all the conditions for re-entry waivers is key: it takes some work and time to get a guy on re-entry -- you don't just snap your fingers and make it happen, as people too often assume. Anyway, when a guy's on re-entry waivers, again every team has a chance to claim him -- the order is again the NHL standings at the moment, in reverse -- with the claiming team getting the player and 1/2 the contact, and the original team getting the other 1/2 of the salary (cap hit and real money). Sean Avery is an example every one will remember -- Dallas is on the hook for half his salary, for each and every year of that contract.

And that's a crash course in waivers. Smile

Is there not a part in there about having already made claims on players as well

For example if Ottawa put in a claim and got Souray (Not saying they should so relax everyone) then if another player is waived their last in line of the 29 teams? Is that just an urban legend?


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68Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:53 am

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
No, not an urban legend. If a team takes a player they go to the back of the waiver order line.

In the off-season, does the order depend on the standings at the end of the previous season or is it the same as the entry draft selection order (i.e. post-season success and lottery taken into account)?

Now that Souray has cleared waivers and there is no minor league team to send him to, he's pretty much back where he started. Was this an exercise in futility or was there some purpose to this? All it's done is drop his value, IMO, and that's bad for both him *and* the Oilers. He *really* should have kept his mouth shut.


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69Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:11 am

rooneypoo

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All-Star
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wprager wrote:No, not an urban legend. If a team takes a player they go to the back of the waiver order line.

In the off-season, does the order depend on the standings at the end of the previous season or is it the same as the entry draft selection order (i.e. post-season success and lottery taken into account)?

Now that Souray has cleared waivers and there is no minor league team to send him to, he's pretty much back where he started. Was this an exercise in futility or was there some purpose to this? All it's done is drop his value, IMO, and that's bad for both him *and* the Oilers. He *really* should have kept his mouth shut.

I would guess the NHL standings on the last day of the regular season, in reverse, but I'm not sure. The info on waiver order / priority must be really buried in the CBA because I've never been able to find it.

70Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:47 am

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
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Someone explain to me why Souray didn't get picked up. This isn't 'some dude', this is a very powerful D-man, particularly offensively. When Kuba goes for 3.8 or whatever, surely Souray would get picked up for 5.4 (4.5 in real money for the internal cap teams).

This is a weird one for me. On re-entry, I doubt teams could resist taking one of the hardest shots/best PP D-men for 2.7 million dollars, or is his attitude *that* bad?

71Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:49 am

Guest


Guest
Teams probably want to give unwanted players back, rather than just solving Edmonton's problem by taking on an injury-prone risk.

72Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:54 am

PTFlea

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I can see the injury prone argument, but when healthy, this is a prime time PP QB. And he's free to take, like Kubina was, like Corvo will be when he's signed. A little more expensive (on the cap, not in real dollars), but great value.

I think the last season in Edmonton is deceiving, he was hurt, he tried to rush back, he got hurt again. Whatever the Columbus Blue Jackets are doing with their team - it's wrong, they need a guy like this.

73Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:11 am

SeawaySensFan

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Souray?!??!!! WAIVED??!!!??!!! Souray waived! - Page 5 235689 Souray waived! - Page 5 805406

74Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:19 am

Guest


Guest
Gohan wrote:Teams probably want to give unwanted players back, rather than just solving Edmonton's problem by taking on an injury-prone risk.

Exactly. No team is going to take on 5.5 mil for what? 2, 3 more years without giving back the same kind. of money and term.

Souray is a nice player, great on the PP, but I wouldnt be willing to give him that kind of commitment knowing he has publicly asked for a trade. Edmonton might be stuck with him.

75Souray waived! - Page 5 Empty Re: Souray waived! on Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:28 am

Hoags

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All-Star
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Almost no teams have cap room to just take on such a player (injury and character concerns aside).

And Edmonton has been shopping him for a while now, if someone was interested I'd imagine it'd be a done deal by now.

Re-entry might be an option but supposedly they don't want to do that.

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