NBA FA market, news stories and signings

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    PTFlea
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by PTFlea on Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:45 am

    Holy Dung, suspending season ticket sales = the hottest team in the league financially (or close surely).

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by PKC on Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:50 am

    SpezDispenser wrote:
    PKC wrote:
    It's gonna be a big waste of money, I promise.

    Maybe Bosh, but Wade and Lebron, you think it's a waste? I'm asking because I don't know that much about b-ball, just that Lebron is really awesome.

    It's gonna be a waste of money from the standpoint of not winning a championship. Sure they're going to sell more jerseys than the rest of the league combined, and their TV deal will be monumental, and ticket sales will be astronomical, but they won't win a championship, they don't have the right pieces in place.

    They have three phenomenal players, but they don't have the right pieces.

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by PTFlea on Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:59 am

    Yeah, fair enough, the pieces aren't there is support.
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by PKC on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:01 pm

    SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah, fair enough, the pieces aren't there is support.

    The three of them know what this is anyway: an exercise in maximizing personal branding.
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by Ev on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:05 pm

    Rumour has it they will make a serious pitch for Derek Fisher.

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by Devo on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:14 pm

    SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah, fair enough, the pieces aren't there is support.

    I'm not sure how you can say that. The Celtics were in the same situation until they suddently realized that a guy no one thought fit the puzzle actually did. Rondo turned out to be the cog that makes the whole thing work, and he was originally a guy they only had around as a bench guy.


    I will give you this. Depending on how much they make, they may not win. If the three of them combined take up more than 75% of the cap, then I believe you are right they just won't have the $$$ in place to sign the 3 other guys to make it work.

    Let's face it, none of them are great shooters, and while Wade can distribute the bal well, as can Lebron, and Bosh can add some valued minutes in the middle they have some major problems.

    1. None of them are perimeter shooters (at least they haven't shown themselves to be), which means they need at least one guy who can play defense, and shoot 3's in order to be a threat on the floor so you don't just concentrate on the "3" guys.

    2. Bosh while a big man, doesn't play like a big man. We all saw what happened in the finals this year when the Celtics lost Perkins. WIthout a guy who plays in the middle and makes life miserable for the oponents big guys, your team is doomed. Bosh just isn't that kind of player, he's more of a Dirk Nowitzki type player in that he can play offensivly but doesn't dominate the boards. Hell he only weights 230 pounds.

    3. Who are they going to get to play off the bench. No cap room will severly limit the ability to attain depth on the bench, and there is still the question of how long they will remain together.

    It's my opinion, but Lebrons failure in all this is that he's joining Wade and Bosh, and his quest to follow in M.J.'s footsteps will be lost. Kobe has atleast won a championship by being the guy on a team. The only guy, where Lebron, should they win, will be one of 3. If he wanted to make his mark, he should have convinced Boozer to come to Clevland. If he had done that, and won, M.J. would pale in comparison because Lebron would have done something Michael never did, nor could do. End Clevlands suffering.

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by Guest on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:21 pm

    PKC wrote:This is gonna be a disaster for the league for so many reasons. And it'll be funny to watch them not win a title.

    If I could describe the hockey equivalent of the Miami Heat, it would be like having Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin and Daniel Sedin up front with 6 Brendan Bells on the blueline and Martin Gerber in nets.

    That's the worst analogy I've seen. It's not comparable in the slightest. Hockey requires a helluva lot more pieces in place than basketball, where star players can play as much as 80% of the game all season long. It's not like Wade can't D up or Bosh can't rebound or LBJ can't block opponents. This will be a top-5 team in the league (provided 2 of the 3 are healthy for 3/4 of the season or more) for the next 6 years.
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by PKC on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:36 pm

    Gohan wrote:
    PKC wrote:This is gonna be a disaster for the league for so many reasons. And it'll be funny to watch them not win a title.

    If I could describe the hockey equivalent of the Miami Heat, it would be like having Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin and Daniel Sedin up front with 6 Brendan Bells on the blueline and Martin Gerber in nets.

    That's the worst analogy I've seen. It's not comparable in the slightest. Hockey requires a helluva lot more pieces in place than basketball, where star players can play as much as 80% of the game all season long. It's not like Wade can't D up or Bosh can't rebound or LBJ can't block opponents. This will be a top-5 team in the league (provided 2 of the 3 are healthy for 3/4 of the season or more) for the next 6 years.

    I don't think you have the faintest clue about basketball to be honest. Do you know why the big three in Boston were so successful and able to win a championship? Because when the time came for two teams to put all their chips down in a 7-game series, they had the best role players on the team. Not because they had the three best players, but because the guys who were supporting them were the best.

    Every year, everyone talks about the team with the most talent, the highest scoring ability, and yet, like clockwork, inevitably, the team that has the best role players and the best team defense is the one that wins the championship.

    Never mind the fact that the most glaring hole that the Miami Heat have is the lack of a dominant big man. That alone cements their likely inability to win a championship.

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by Guest on Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:56 pm

    PKC wrote:
    Big Ev wrote:Well they won't win next season, and I think the players realize that.

    It's not as extreme as that analogy, PKC....I'd play the Crosby line the enetire game haha.

    It is that extreme. With the salaries you're paying those three, how could they possibly sign anyone adequate to fill the other 9 spots. It's gonna be bargain bin shopping. They won't have a good bench. They won't have good team defense. They won't win. It's pretty simple.

    No team defense? Are these 3 really that inept defensively?

    Also, you might want to do a little research into the workings of the NBA cap before going on about how they're F'ed and all that .

    First of all, it's a soft cap with so many exceptions it would make an NHL GM's head spin. Second, they have this little thing called the Bird exception which will allow Miami to re-sign Wade and go over the cap in the process. Third, they have a mid-level exception that allows them to sign a player for the average NBA salary despite being over the cap or going over it, in the process. There's also a minimum salary exception that allows a team to sign as many players as they want to minimum salary contracts despite being over the cap.

    (btw the average NBA salary for next season is almost 6M, meaning that they can get a very solid 2nd tier player with their mid-level exception.)

    According to this site http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20 (#29) only the first year's salary matters in determining cap implications, so they can pay Bosh and LBJ 17M in the first year and escalate to say 19.5M by the final year to circumvent the cap further.

    It's all very complicated and I'm not sure I understand fully how it all works, but I guarantee the guys in charge know what they're doing and I'm pretty sure any team with those 3 players with be ultra competitive.
    In other words, the Heat will field an ultra competitive lineup, despite

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by Guest on Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:13 pm

    PKC wrote:
    Gohan wrote:
    PKC wrote:This is gonna be a disaster for the league for so many reasons. And it'll be funny to watch them not win a title.

    If I could describe the hockey equivalent of the Miami Heat, it would be like having Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin and Daniel Sedin up front with 6 Brendan Bells on the blueline and Martin Gerber in nets.

    That's the worst analogy I've seen. It's not comparable in the slightest. Hockey requires a helluva lot more pieces in place than basketball, where star players can play as much as 80% of the game all season long. It's not like Wade can't D up or Bosh can't rebound or LBJ can't block opponents. This will be a top-5 team in the league (provided 2 of the 3 are healthy for 3/4 of the season or more) for the next 6 years.

    I don't think you have the faintest clue about basketball to be honest. Do you know why the big three in Boston were so successful and able to win a championship? Because when the time came for two teams to put all their chips down in a 7-game series, they had the best role players on the team. Not because they had the three best players, but because the guys who were supporting them were the best.

    Every year, everyone talks about the team with the most talent, the highest scoring ability, and yet, like clockwork, inevitably, the team that has the best role players and the best team defense is the one that wins the championship.

    Never mind the fact that the most glaring hole that the Miami Heat have is the lack of a dominant big man. That alone cements their likely inability to win a championship.

    you get another minus for that...especially since you don't have the faintest clue about the implications of their salaries on the cap.

    ...Who the hell said that Pierce, Allen, and Garnett are the 3 best players? They are top-tier, but they aren't league MVP's... Miami retained one of the most exciting and most difficult to contain offensive forces in the league and added the most dominant SF in the league plus a rock-solid PF. Stopping those 3 is going to be so ridiculously hard that 25 teams simply won't have any chance at doing it.

    For you to proclaim so vigorously and with so much certainty and authority that they won't win a championship is as foolish as those who are ready to crown them today. Sometimes I forget why I skip over your posts...thanks for reminding me.

    This site is Dung. Most intelligent hockey discussion my Donkey. If it weren't for Rooney, N4L, and ASQ, I wouldn't ever bother coming here; and now Neely's gone... Cuss it: I'm out to.
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:13 pm

    LMAO! you're quitting because you have a disagreement on BASKETBALL on a hockey forum and then you want to say 'this site is Dung' because of that? You gotta be kidding me.

    I understand you're upset because someone said that 'you don't have the faintest clue' about some topic of discussion. You have every right to, and I don't condone it, but then again, that's what your buddy N4L did ALL THE TIME!

    if you ever read this, I hope you get my point. You can have your pacts with users and prefer one over the other, but to degrade the site is absolute lunacy, especially what you're getting mad at is EXACTLY what others get mad at with your buddies (minus ASQ).

    Nice Knowin' ya!
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by PKC on Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:23 pm

    Michallica wrote:LMAO! you're quitting because you have a disagreement on BASKETBALL on a hockey forum and then you want to say 'this site is Dung' because of that? You gotta be kidding me.

    I understand you're upset because someone said that 'you don't have the faintest clue' about some topic of discussion. You have every right to, and I don't condone it, but then again, that's what your buddy N4L did ALL THE TIME!

    if you ever read this, I hope you get my point. You can have your pacts with users and prefer one over the other, but to degrade the site is absolute lunacy, especially what you're getting mad at is EXACTLY what others get mad at with your buddies (minus ASQ).

    Nice Knowin' ya!

    I was going to reply, but what's the point now?
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by stempniaksen on Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:43 pm

    Are we gonna have a thread dedicated to Gohan's departure too?
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by PKC on Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:48 pm

    I figure I might as well explain the NBA salary cap to this guy anyway, and that way other people can get it too.

    I'm going to quote your piece about the NBA salary cap and explain to you each point.

    No team defense? Are these 3 really that inept defensively?

    Also,
    you might want to do a little research into the workings of the NBA cap
    before going on about how they're F'ed and all that .

    First of
    all, it's a soft cap with so many exceptions it would make an NHL GM's
    head spin.

    Yes, it is a soft cap. You're right. But it's also a tax-based soft cap. Once they reach the ~$70-million salary level, they'll have to pay $1 for every $1 they go over.


    Second, they have this little thing called the Bird exception
    which will allow Miami to re-sign Wade and go over the cap in the
    process.

    Yes, they have a Bird exception to sign Wade. But that just allows them to go over the cap. It doesn't mean that Wade's money doesn't count against their cap.

    Third, they have a mid-level exception that allows them to sign
    a player for the average NBA salary despite being over the cap or going
    over it, in the process.


    Unfortunately, they don't. This is a common misconception. Only teams that enter the off season already over the cap reserve the right to use the MLE (mid-level exception). You can't use all your cap space and then use the exception. And since they didn't sign all three guys until today, and as such only had Mario Chalmers' salary against the cap, they don't qualify for the exception.

    There's also a minimum salary exception that
    allows a team to sign as many players as they want to minimum salary
    contracts despite being over the cap.

    This is the only thing you were right about. Now go ahead and tell me what kind of team they are going to have where the other eight or nine guys are all signed to league minimum contracts?

    (btw the average NBA
    salary for next season is almost 6M, meaning that they can get a very
    solid 2nd tier player with their mid-level exception.)

    Uhh, no.

    According
    to this site http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20
    (#29) only the first year's salary matters in determining cap
    implications, so they can pay Bosh and LBJ 17M in the first year and
    escalate to say 19.5M by the final year to circumvent the cap further.

    It's all very complicated and I'm not sure I understand fully how
    it all works
    , but I guarantee the guys in charge know what they're doing
    and I'm pretty sure any team with those 3 players with be ultra
    competitive.
    In other words, the Heat will field an ultra competitive
    lineup, despite

    You were quite right about that.

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by cash on Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:10 pm

    Cash aka CCgotITcovered aka Gohan, back again... out of curiosity and to address a couple more things:

    a) I don't skip your posts if anything I stop to read them... I was being a dick because I was insulted (kind of sensitive this morning).

    b) Thanks for explaining that. I have never looked into the NBA cap because I care about 1000 times less about that sport/league than I do hockey. It's good to have an understanding now.

    c) If they can spend up to approx 70M, than doesn't that give them a good 17M to fill out their roster? And isn't it just the first year of the contract that matters to the cap, so they have more cap to spend?
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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by hemlock on Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:21 pm

    cash wrote: Cash aka CCgotITcovered aka Gohan, back again... out of curiosity and to address a couple more things:

    a) I don't skip your posts if anything I stop to read them... I was being a dick because I was insulted (kind of sensitive this morning).

    b) Thanks for explaining that. I have never looked into the NBA cap because I care about 1000 times less about that sport/league than I do hockey. It's good to have an understanding now.

    c) If they can spend up to approx 70M, than doesn't that give them a good 17M to fill out their roster? And isn't it just the first year of the contract that matters to the cap, so they have more cap to spend?

    That was quick. Welcome back.

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by cash on Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:31 pm

    ah-thank you

    ( <<< I should've had this thing as my intro to that post)

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    Re: NBA FA market, news stories and signings

    Post by cash on Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:33 pm

    oh, and I still maintain that the Heat will be top-5 in the league for the lifespan of their contracts...

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