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August Question 4: The Most OVERrated Players

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Riprock


All-Star
All-Star
Oh no you didn't just mention Rick Nash Dammit! I'm probably one of the last people you'd want to say that too lol

Size, skill, speed... not sure what else you want in a guy that is a total package. Easily a 40 goal scorer, PPG player, and hasn't really had some of the talent around him that a lot of others have.

Ev


Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Yeah I know you are a big fan, but like you said, the guy is billed as this perennial 40-goal scorer and PPG player, yet he has scored 40 goals only once and isn't anywhere close to having a PPG in his career. He is also incredibly inconsistent. He's a great player but the expectations for him are too high, IMO.

The Silfer Server


Veteran
Veteran
asq2 wrote:
Bass Destruction wrote:The problem with saying that Crosby is this generation's Gretzky is that there are other players that produce at the same rate that he does, while Gretzky was a cut above the rest.

And I did concede that Crosby produces more than Toews in the regular season. But many would argue the playoffs are the only thing that counts, although i don't ( August Question 4: The Most OVERrated Players - Page 3 159628 ). I also think that next year Toews is going to explode offensively in the regular season, based on his dominance in the playoffs. But regardless, I think Toews capabilities on defence are vastly underrated, far outweigh Crosby's, and should not be overlooked.

I also don't think saying Guerin is awful, but then say that Toews plays with solid linemates like Byfuglien and Versteeg is all that fair. Byfuglien's career high is fewer points than Guerin has put up in over a decade. Two seasons ago, Guerin still managed 36 pts in 61 games prior to the trade playing for the Islanders.

And they have tried Crosby with several gifted linemates in Pittsburgh, including Malkin, Guerin, Hossa, Sykora, Leclair, Palffy, even Armstrong (whose career high is also higher than Byfuglien's).

For the record, I'm not saying that their offensive talents are on par, because they are not, Crosby is the clear winner in that department; but that Toews' numbers have yet to be fully show his capabilities. Crosby will probably still outscore him by 20-30 points next year, but I, personally, believe that Toews overall play makes up for that.

PS: I highly respect everything you say. I hope nothing I said comes out as offensive, my intention was only to disagree, not be condescending or anything.

What? You don't come off as condescending at all. August Question 4: The Most OVERrated Players - Page 3 574714 I hope I'm not either.

Yeah, I'll concede that Guerin is not considerably worse than Versteeg or Byfuglien, although I've talked to a number of Pens fans who are not, erm, a huge fan of his. The main piece here is Kane, who is IMO a quickly emerging superstar and who should end up as a perennial top-5 scorer. Crosby has Malkin, who is better, but they don't really play on the same line all that often. I guess Malone also played with Crosby, didn't he? It's still IMO a pretty pathetic collection of linemates, though. He had Hossa for a considerably shorter period of time than did Toews, and never had Havlat either.

Toews is a better defensive player, but this is another area where Crosby is improving quickly. Anyway, my point via the Crosby/Gretzky Toews/Yzerkic comparison (and admittedly not a valid one) is that Crosby's offensive dominance outweighs other areas where he is perhaps relatively lacking. Maybe - though I'll probably regret opening this can of worms - it'd be like comparing Spezza and Fisher, ignoring contracts.

Even looking at the playoffs, Toews has 42 points in 39 games, and Crosby has 82 points in 62 games. In 45 fewer games (granted, all post-lock-out), Sid's only 6 points off matching Alfie's career playoff output, and he's only just turned 23, which was IIRC Alfie's age when he entered the NHL. They both have a Cup, they both have a gold medal, and Toews admittedly has a Conn Smythe in his favour, but then Crosby has a Hart Trophy, Art Ross, Rocket Richard, Lester B. Pearson and even a Mark Messier leadership award. We as Sens fans should know better than anyone that when it comes to the playoffs, it's not just a bunch of numbers with Sid. He destroyed us.

Again, Toews is a wonderful player and I'd take him in an instant to build a team around, but I think the hockey community has a short memory, and likes to put players on a pedestal by focussing only on recent events. Remember how Zetterberg was supposed to be the "real" best player in the NHL? Or Lecavalier? Or Iginla?

Toews IMHO needs to have at least another great season (and/or increase his offensive numbers) to get into the discussion about being in the super-elite category. Crosby's had five (or at worst four) incredible years.

I will agree with much that is written, and am glad that I'm not coming off as a prick. Would like to say I'm still a huge Zetterberg supporter though, think he is another vastly underrated player, not in terms of salary, but in terms of league recognition.

And I did not comment on your Toews comparison to Sakic/Yzerman, although I found it appropriate and fair, and is where I think Toews will max out, in the just above a point per game area. Toews won't ever be the offensive dynamo Crosby is, and it is possible that Crosby can become as solid as Toews is defensively, although I do not see it happening. I may be relying too heavily on Toews potential, which I am adamant he will reach, but nonetheless, has not yet.

But Crosby isn't as far ahead as Gretzky was in terms of other talent in the league. By this I mean in the height of Gretzky's career, he would be some 60 pts ahead of the next leading scorer in the league. In the one year Crosby did lead the league he was ahead by just 6 pts. But then again, we are comparing Crosby to Toews, and he does outscore Toews by 30-40 pts per year. But in your not so much comparison, but maybe allusion (can't think of the right word) I do see it, and do agree with it, in terms of the later years (late 90's.

Agree, people tend to only focus on recent events, however, Toews has only broken out in the last two years, and has been around for just 3.

And I really don't put much credence in the Messier Leadership award. I believe in leadership obviously, but when things are not quantifiable, it starts becoming a bit of a popularity award.

In conclusion, Toews rules, Crosby drools!

Riprock

Riprock
All-Star
All-Star
He scored 41 in his sophomore season, tied with Iginla and Kovalchuk for the Rocket Richard.

And he just came off of another 40 goal season in 08-09.

In his career, he has averaged 32 goals, and ~60 pts, at about a 0.82 PPG rate.

I don't think he is overrated, but he certainly has a lot of pressure and expectation on him, and as a captain, it is expected. He's also been Canada's best players at International competition.

I think what he's been able to do given the situation he's been in, has been impressive. It would be something to see him be able to play with a Thornton, Spezza, Getzlaf, Toews, Crosby, Staal on a regular basis. What has he had in Columbus? A past his prime Fedorov, Umberger, Vermette and Brassard?

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
A 1st overall pick should be able to produce no matter who his linemates are. Ovechkin played with nobody before Backstrom came along (obviously he is better than Nash, just an example).

Like I said, he's a great player, but I think if people expect 50 goals and 100+ points from him (you didn't say that, I mean others I've heard and seen when talking about Nash) they will be disappointed.

M_Christopher

M_Christopher
Sophomore
Sophomore
Any player in a Leafs jersey certainly counts as an over-rated player.

But if I had to pick one...

Bobby Lou...

By far...no clutch skills and full on crumbles under pressure.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?blogger_id=121

Riprock

Riprock
All-Star
All-Star
^ Hey, looks like I am not alone in my opinion. TwoThumbsUp!

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