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August Question: Best Defensive Prospect Pool #1

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August Question: Best Defensive Prospect Pool #1

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Total Votes : 7

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hemlock


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Big Ev wrote:Phoenix...plus they already have a great young D in Keith Yandle who is very underappreciated. Don't know much about their other D asided from OEL, Gormley, and Goncharov

Yandle is awesome. His progression as a player is mirrors Duncan Keith's rise. I don't think he'll get to that level, but he's still well on his way to being the clear cut #1 d-man in Phoenix. Very underrated, but now he's getting some notice after the breakout season he had last year.

hemlock


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wprager wrote:OK, let me retract what I said about the spelling of Blade Runner's name. I've seen it spelled (misspelled?) both ways but it looks like Rundblad is the most common.

It's Rundblad for sure.

wprager


Administrator
Administrator
I've searched (and found) both spellings used in online publications (I've ignored forum traffic, of course). Then I did a search in Swedish -- same results. A report from a St. Louis paper when the trade went down had it spelled Runblad in the title, and Rundblad in the text.

By the way, how come the Sens' website does not have him listed on their prospects page?

LeCaptain

LeCaptain
All-Star
All-Star
wprager wrote:Cowen was projected to got top-five if not top-three before his injury. He has now recovered. He lost a year but not his projection -- he's definitely #1 potential.

Karlsson flew under the radar, for sure, but I enjoyed seeing what he did last year. Definitely potential there to be a #1.

Wiercioch is an unknown quantity at this point. The NCAA is not the OHL/AHL and certainly not NHL. He's got great scoring touch but I'll reserve judgment until I see how he skates with another 20 lbs on his frame. Too early to tell.

Runblad (the spelling of his name is actually quite simple -- just think Blade Runner), according to many comments I'd read, mayb not have the offensive potential of Karlsson, but his size may allow him to be a better defenseman, overall.

To me, that's three potential #1s. And while you may say that OEL and Gormley are expected to be #1s, the reality is that they are both prospects with potential. No guarantees. Right now, Karlsson is the closest of all the others mentioned. He outscored Hedman on a team that struggled to score all year -- yes, it's too early to say that he will be better than Hedman, but it's also not too early to say that there's no guarantee that Hedman will be better than Karlsson. Remember when they were drafted -- it was a given that Hedman was above Karlsson in nearly every category. The consensus now is that he is taller.


- I don't expect Karlsson to be the best shutdown defenseman on his team. Of course he could be but he has to go into Niedermayer/Keith/Markov territory to do so (because he's not gonna beat forwards with toughness and reaching), which is gonna be quite hard.

- Wiercioch was the N1 defenseman on his team but is too thin now to be projected as such in the NHL

- Rundblad for me is more like a Brian Campbell potential.

- Cowen could be Chris Pronger or Braydon Coburn. All depends on the role he will be given and with all the PMDs we will have I don't think they're gonna let him play on the PP much... but he certainly can be a N1 defenseman if he is given time to develop offensively.

On the other hand you have:

- OEL, probably the best defense prospect in the world right now. Lidstrom territory in terms of potential and already looks like he can go there.

- Brandom Gormley, N1 defenseman on the best team in the Q. I could see a Markov type there.

- Maxim GOncharov who I've only seen one time so It's not like I know a lot, but I've read/heard some people say he was the best PHO prospect behind OEL. Has been playing with men for 2 years now, 2nd youngest player on his team.

So, IMO, in terms of developping the best players, I'll have to go with Phoenix.
BUT, I think Ottawa will have a more versatile/balanced defensive line up.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
Tuk Tuk wrote:
Only one or two of ours could really become legitimate #1 defensemen. OEL and Gormley are both expected to be #1s, and Goncharov has the potential.

I'd say Ottawa's Behind Florida, Anaheim, and maybe Nashville.

I don't think Gormley will ever be a number one, maybe a top pairing # 2 guy, but that's a tough call as well. His hockey IQ is amazing, but he lacks in areas that would prevent him from being a number one. Wiercioch comes to mind as a comparable, but I'm on the fence as to who I prefer.

LeCaptain

LeCaptain
All-Star
All-Star
SpezDispenser wrote:
Tuk Tuk wrote:
Only one or two of ours could really become legitimate #1 defensemen. OEL and Gormley are both expected to be #1s, and Goncharov has the potential.

I'd say Ottawa's Behind Florida, Anaheim, and maybe Nashville.

I don't think Gormley will ever be a number one, maybe a top pairing # 2 guy, but that's a tough call as well. His hockey IQ is amazing, but he lacks in areas that would prevent him from being a number one. Wiercioch comes to mind as a comparable, but I'm on the fence as to who I prefer.

Maybe we have to settle on the definition of a N1 defenseman, because in my books there are maybe 10 N1 defensemen in the league right now that we can say have the total package.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
marakh wrote:
Maybe we have to settle on the definition of a N1 defenseman, because in my books there are maybe 10 N1 defensemen in the league right now that we can say have the total package.

That's a really tough question. Interesting one too. I think most teams would have a number one, but I might be wrong.

Anaheim - no
Boston - Chara
Chicago - Keith (and possibly Seabrook)
Detroit - Lidstrom
Edmonton - no
Phoenix - Jovonovski (Yandle's coming)
Buffalo - Myers
Toronto - Phaneuf
Calgary - Bouwmeester (HIGHLY debatable)
Vancouver - a TON of top pairing guys and top 4, but I don't see a number one personally
Montreal - Markov
Ottawa - no
Washington - Green
Florida - no
Tampa Bay - no
Carolina - Pitkanen (debatable)
Atlanta - Bogosian (close)
NY Islanders - Streit (close/debatable)
NY Rangers - no
NJ Devils - no
Pittsburgh - Martin (debatable)
Philly - Pronger, Timonen
Columbus - no
Nashville - Suter, Weber
St.Louis - E.Johnson
LA - Doughty
Colorado - no
Minnesota - no
Dallas - no
San Jose - Boyle

By my count there's 20 number ones in the league, but a few of them are debatable.

The Silfer Server

The Silfer Server
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Veteran
I would also include Tomas Kaberle in that list.

The Silfer Server

The Silfer Server
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Veteran
marakh wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Tuk Tuk wrote:
Only one or two of ours could really become legitimate #1 defensemen. OEL and Gormley are both expected to be #1s, and Goncharov has the potential.

I'd say Ottawa's Behind Florida, Anaheim, and maybe Nashville.

I don't think Gormley will ever be a number one, maybe a top pairing # 2 guy, but that's a tough call as well. His hockey IQ is amazing, but he lacks in areas that would prevent him from being a number one. Wiercioch comes to mind as a comparable, but I'm on the fence as to who I prefer.

Maybe we have to settle on the definition of a N1 defenseman, because in my books there are maybe 10 N1 defensemen in the league right now that we can say have the total package.

That's a very good point. How does one define one. A defensively responsible high point getting guy. Does one have to be defensive at all? How about a solid puckmoving defensive defenseman who does not put up many points, does that count? I think the term needs to be defined before we can debate on who in the league is one.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
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Bass Destruction wrote:I would also include Tomas Kaberle in that list.

These D have to be stellar defensively as well. I don't think Kaberle is on this list at all personally. And if he is, then Gonchar DEFINITELY is. I think we're talking guys who can put up upwards of 40 points and defend with the big boys. I realize that Streit probably comes out in this equation, but that's the loose definition as I see it.

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
SpezDispenser wrote:
Bass Destruction wrote:I would also include Tomas Kaberle in that list.

These D have to be stellar defensively as well. I don't think Kaberle is on this list at all personally. And if he is, then Gonchar DEFINITELY is. I think we're talking guys who can put up upwards of 40 points and defend with the big boys. I realize that Streit probably comes out in this equation, but that's the loose definition as I see it.

So then Green comes out as well Sarcasm

Guest


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Bass Destruction wrote:
marakh wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Tuk Tuk wrote:
Only one or two of ours could really become legitimate #1 defensemen. OEL and Gormley are both expected to be #1s, and Goncharov has the potential.

I'd say Ottawa's Behind Florida, Anaheim, and maybe Nashville.

I don't think Gormley will ever be a number one, maybe a top pairing # 2 guy, but that's a tough call as well. His hockey IQ is amazing, but he lacks in areas that would prevent him from being a number one. Wiercioch comes to mind as a comparable, but I'm on the fence as to who I prefer.

Maybe we have to settle on the definition of a N1 defenseman, because in my books there are maybe 10 N1 defensemen in the league right now that we can say have the total package.

That's a very good point. How does one define one. A defensively responsible high point getting guy. Does one have to be defensive at all? How about a solid puckmoving defensive defenseman who does not put up many points, does that count? I think the term needs to be defined before we can debate on who in the league is one.

Agreed. To me, someone along the Chris Phillips calibre is not a #1 but he's a #1 on this team. I'd say #1s have to be legitimate offensive threats with an ability to shutdown other teams' top players. My list off the top of my head is: Chara, Keith, Lidstrom, Doughty, Markov, Weber, Pronger, Boyle, E. Johnson (arguably), and Phaneuf (arguably).

#2s would be guys who specialize in one or both of the categories and can hold their own on the otherside. For instance, they specialize in offensive situations but can't shutdown a top pairing. These would be guys like: Green, Rafalski, Phillips, Bieksa, Campbell, Seabrooke, etc.

It's a fine line but like you said, there are only a max of 10 defenceman that I would argue could change the outcome of a game single handedly. Even ten is pushing it...

Guest


Guest
I think Karlsson's ceiling given my standards is a #2. He'll never be a defensive force like a Pronger but he'll sure as hell light the lamp for years to come. His ceiling will be similar to a Gonchar or a Green.

I think Cowen will be the closest thing we have to a #1 out of our prospects. He needs to develop more of a mean streak, but given his size and his potential (if healthy) I think he'll be our best bet to be that guy.

Don't know enough about Rundblad, Gryba, and Wiercioch to really commeny but given the conversations on here, they're ceilings are probably 2-4s. Very reliable, consistent guys who flourish in their roles.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
Big Ev wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Bass Destruction wrote:I would also include Tomas Kaberle in that list.

These D have to be stellar defensively as well. I don't think Kaberle is on this list at all personally. And if he is, then Gonchar DEFINITELY is. I think we're talking guys who can put up upwards of 40 points and defend with the big boys. I realize that Streit probably comes out in this equation, but that's the loose definition as I see it.

So then Green comes out as well Sarcasm

Yeah, I wasn't sure if he should be in there, but he plays 20+ minutes, is a plus player (unreal) and puts up an ungodly number of points. I'd give him number one status on points alone, but I would totally admit that your number 2 D-man had better be amazing if you're putting Green as #1. Besides the lack of a number 2 center, I think this is the Caps Achilles heel going forward. Carlson can be that guy, but he's a righty as well and it will be a couple of years.

The Silfer Server

The Silfer Server
Veteran
Veteran
SpezDispenser wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
Bass Destruction wrote:I would also include Tomas Kaberle in that list.

These D have to be stellar defensively as well. I don't think Kaberle is on this list at all personally. And if he is, then Gonchar DEFINITELY is. I think we're talking guys who can put up upwards of 40 points and defend with the big boys. I realize that Streit probably comes out in this equation, but that's the loose definition as I see it.

So then Green comes out as well Sarcasm

Yeah, I wasn't sure if he should be in there, but he plays 20+ minutes, is a plus player (unreal) and puts up an ungodly number of points. I'd give him number one status on points alone, but I would totally admit that your number 2 D-man had better be amazing if you're putting Green as #1. Besides the lack of a number 2 center, I think this is the Caps Achilles heel going forward. Carlson can be that guy, but he's a righty as well and it will be a couple of years.

Streit may actually fit the bill then. He lead all dmen last year in Takeaways. He's not a hitter, but i think that should be ok, neither is Keith after all.

stempniaksen

stempniaksen
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Veteran
Anaheim - Lubomir Visnovsky (He still is, but not getting any younger)
Boston - Zdeno Chara
Montreal - Andrei Markov
Chicago - Duncan Keith + Brent Seabrook
Detroit - Niklas Lidstrom
Edmonton - Ryan Whitney (Not close)
Phoenix - Ed Jovanovski (To me he's more of a #2)
Buffalo - Tyler Myers
Toronto - Dion Phaneuf
Calgary - Bouwmeester (not that debatable, maybe another bad year though)
Vancouver - Christian Erhoff (Just a #2 at this point)
Ottawa - Sergei Gonchar (He still is, but could become a #2 very fast)
Washington - Mike Green
Florida - Bryan McCabe (Better than people think, but not hats good)
Tampa Bay - Victor Hedman (Definitely not there yet, but soon)
Carolina - Joni Pitkanen (Don't think he's there yet)
NY Islanders - Marc Streit (for sure)
NY Rangers - Marc Staal (probably a #2 at this point)
NJ Devils - Henrik Tallinder (maybe a #2 at best)
Pittsburgh - Paul Martin (not debatable)
Philadelphia - Chris Pronger + Kimmo Timonen
Columbus -
Nashville - Ryan Suter + Shea Weber
St.Louis - Eric Johnson
Los Angeles - Drew Doughty
Colorado - Kyle Quincey - With more consistency he'd be there
Minnesota - Brent Burns - Debatable, but I'm gonna say no
Dallas - Stephane Robidas
San Jose - Dan Boyle

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
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Good list Stemp. I purposely left out Hedman, Quincy. They'll have a chance to be one one day, but IMO they're not there yet.

I only disagree about:

Visnovsky - I love this guy, but he's way more in the mold of an offensive D-man. I've found his D lacking in the past, so to me he's not a #1, rather a great #2

Whitney - boy, I think this guy sucks big time. 2nd pairing guy at best.

Robidas - you know I love his game, but is he a number one D-man? Tough question, I think he's more efficient as a #2 or 2nd pairing w/PK and PP time.

stempniaksen

stempniaksen
Veteran
Veteran
I shoulda specified that only the bolded guys are guys I consider real #1's and that the other guys are players who are #1's on their team, but can't be considered real #1's.

Visnovsky is just like Gonchar so I would feel like a homer if I included one and not the other, plus he got a bad rap in Edmonton.

Whitney is a bum, but sadly the best that Edmonton can offer. He's definitely not a top pairing player though, haha.

Robidas is like Phillips with more offence and is one of Hockey Canada's favourite guys for a reason (He was the first replacement defenceman at the Olympics). I really do think this guy has it all and is a legit #1 guy.

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