Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

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    Number Twenty Nine
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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by Number Twenty Nine on Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:34 pm

    shabbs wrote:
    Number Twenty Nine wrote:most cameras these days will have a noise filter setting of some sort. (off, low, high). The NR you are talking about is dark frame subtraction for when you use long exposures - typically more than 2 minutes.

    a small sensor camera like the Panny will have hardware noise filter that you can't turn off plus a user selectable value. The user selectable value is for high iso jpgs.

    my T2i has both settings in the C settings menu.
    Ah, cool. Yeah, I've never done any super long exposures so was not too familiar with that setting. As for noise, I've been very impressed with my 30D's handling of noise even at ISO 1600. I've tried shooting at 3200 in low light just for fun but the results were not that great.

    here's a long exposure I took this morning with the T2i and a ND1000 filter - 50 seconds


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:45 pm

    Nice, how did you get the water to look smooth with 50 seconds of flow?

    That reminds me, I better start looking for a tripod -- is 57" enough or should I go for something bigger? Amazon has a 72" for $17 (down from $50):
    http://www.amazon.com/Carrying-Panasonic-DMC-TS2-DMC-ZS7-Protectors/dp/B004HMJQEI/ref=sr_1_152?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1294086858&sr=1-152

    And should I also get a monopod (for a bit more flexibility)?

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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by shabbs on Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:23 pm

    You'll want to make sure your tripod is solid and sturdy and I'd recommend a quick release head. That's a crazy low price... didn't see any reviews there for it though so hard to tell. Monopod's are great for when you're mobile and moving around. I use a monopod with my camcorder all the time. Saves your arms from strain and helps get a smoother picture.

    What I use: Manfrotto 676B Digi Monopod; Manfrotto 728B Digi Tripod; Manfrotto 234RC Quick Release Head.
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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:23 pm

    That Manfrotto 728B is $160 (lowest price found by shopbot.ca). I believe that's out of my range Smile



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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by shabbs on Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:30 pm

    wprager wrote:That Manfrotto 728B is $160 (lowest price found by shopbot.ca). I believe that's out of my range Smile
    I don't recall paying that much when I got it, years ago. I don't think they even make it anymore. Does that one include a swivel head etc...?
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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:26 am

    It's the same model number you have, so it should have the same swivel head (or is that an add-on part?) I also checked the price on Amazon.com and it was pretty much the same, except that they also have the "list" price, which is about $100 higher. I've been noticing a lot of inflated list prices on Amazon.com, lately.

    By the way, that 72" tripod I mentioned has a shipping weight of 1 lb. That can't be right -- if it is, it's made out of cardboard. And, in any case, the seller won't ship to Canada anyway.

    Checked three other tripods and they all say the same thing -- cannot ship to my home address. I'll check if my sister is planning a trip up -- could have it shipped to her in that case.


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by shabbs on Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:50 am

    The swivel head is part of the tripod. I see the 7301YB has replaced the 728B:

    http://www.henrys.ca/9951-MANFROTTO-M-Y-7301YB-TRIPOD-W-3WAY-HEAD-QR.aspx
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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:43 pm

    OK, Shabbs and Number Twenty Nine (or anyone else who wants to jump in), please explain to me how ISO numbers work in digital photography. With film it's straightforward -- it's physically a different stock, higher ISO film is more photo-sensitive. But with digital, you've got the *same* sensor. Is it simply that the camera firmware adjusts the formula to calculate exposure/aperture differently -- i.e. use a higher setting for exposure than you normally would, to overexpose the shot, as if it was using a higher ISO film? I don't think that's it, so what is it?


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:38 am

    Some good tutorials here: http://www.geofflawrence.com/photography_tutorials.htm

    I'd like to lean more about using an external flash:

    Without any doubt, the worst, most horrible, ugliest way to light any subject is with the little flashgun that now comes built into every camera.

    I'm so glad that the hotshoe was on my must-have list. Now that I have it, though, what next? My camera will shoot in burst-mode of 2, 5 or 11 fps at full-resolution. Will an external flash be able to keep up or does burst mode imply no flash (as it does with the built-in)?


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by Number Twenty Nine on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:04 am

    the flash is limited by it's recycle time.....
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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:48 am

    Number Twenty Nine wrote:the flash is limited by it's recycle time.....

    But what about a strobe flash? Also, I read somewhere that the FZ100 has a "5 mode flash strobe":

    http://www.topdigitalcameras.com/digital-cameras/panasonic-lumix-dmc-fz100/529-reviews.html

    Mind you, the picture shown at the top is an FX100, so who knows. I'll have to dig into the Advanced Features Guide to learn more, I guess.


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by shabbs on Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:38 am

    ISO in digital refers to the sensitivity of the sensor. See here for some good info:

    http://www.digital-photography-school.com/iso-settings

    http://www.digital-photography-school.com/how-to-choose-the-right-iso-for-your-digital-photography

    Cranking the ISO lets you capture images in lower light, and will allow you to "stop" fast action without blurring etc... but there are side effects such as grain/noise etc... it's all about understanding what setting to use in each situation. Best place to start is by taking a series of photos at different ISO levels and comparing them to see how the pics come out to give you an idea of how your camera responds and when noise starts to become a serious issue.


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:29 am

    With film you are actually changing the stock. With digital, it's the same sensor sitting there. As far as I know you cannot change the sensitivity of the sensor -- it's a solid state device with no moving parts or changeable characteristics. Isn't it?


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by shabbs on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:13 pm

    wprager wrote:With film you are actually changing the stock. With digital, it's the same sensor sitting there. As far as I know you cannot change the sensitivity of the sensor -- it's a solid state device with no moving parts or changeable characteristics. Isn't it?
    Clearly it is not.
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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by Number Twenty Nine on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:15 pm

    a digital camera has a native ISO rating - usually 100 or 200. higher iso's are achieved by boosting the gain in the electric circuit and then cleaning up the capture with the onboard image processor
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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by shabbs on Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:15 pm

    Number Twenty Nine wrote:the flash is limited by it's recycle time.....
    Yeah... and if you want one that can do a fast recycle... get ready to shell out.

    I use a Canon Speedlite 430EX which is great for regular shooting modes but does not handle burst that well beyond the 5th or 6th burst. I think the 580EX is more suited for burst mode... but is $600.

    Prager - welcome to the money pit.


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:50 pm

    shabbs wrote:
    Number Twenty Nine wrote:the flash is limited by it's recycle time.....
    Yeah... and if you want one that can do a fast recycle... get ready to shell out.

    I use a Canon Speedlite 430EX which is great for regular shooting modes but does not handle burst that well beyond the 5th or 6th burst. I think the 580EX is more suited for burst mode... but is $600.

    Prager - welcome to the money pit.



    I just need it to handle a burst of three for the bracket mode.


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    Re: Looking for a good, yet inexpensive digital camera

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:51 pm

    Number Twenty Nine wrote:a digital camera has a native ISO rating - usually 100 or 200. higher iso's are achieved by boosting the gain in the electric circuit and then cleaning up the capture with the onboard image processor

    *That's* the explanation I needed. Thanks!


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