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New rules for new members

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76New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:06 pm

rooneypoo


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wprager wrote:
marakh wrote:So you guys are telling me you didn't know CR was Notch?
Pretty sure N4L and Rooney were saying that for weeks and I didn't post it here but N4L gave me the proofs by PM and said they also gave it to you guys (the admins) but you didn't really look into the matter.

Anyways, about attracting new people, there's quite a few I like on HF, not sure if you guys who have an account there would be able to get htem here. On top of my head, Minister of Offense, Xspyrit, Billy MAdison (ok, this guy I suspect is N4L, too many similar arguments, sentence constructions etc minus the grammar mistakes)

Yes, and we all know what a top-notch forensic IP investigator Neely was, right?

Here's the thing. As mods we can see a few extra buttons next to people's posts. One of those is the IP button, which shows us information about the IP used to make the post. It shows the IP address (the numbers), you can click through to see the geographic location associated with that IP, then there is a list of all users who have posted using that IP (usually it is just one user) and, lastly, all the other IPs that this user has used in the past.

Few people have static IPs, but even the dynamic ones can be nearly static. Go ahead, turn off your Rogers modem, then back on, and you will most likely have the same IP address assigned to you (unless the HUB is out of IP addresses and more users are trying to get on). So because of this, it is *highly* unlikely that two users who are *not* in the same household (e.g. SpezD and SensGirl11) will ever post with the same IP address.

Highly unlikely is not the same as proof positive. For example, if you are posting at work then you are most likely sitting behind a NAT router (it performs Network Address Translation to route multiple packets destined to the same externally-visible IP address, to one of many internally-assigned ones). It works the same way with a wireless router at home. For example, SpezD and SG11 may have two laptops and a wireless router, sharing the same home connection. Within their home wireless network they will have two separate, locally administered IP addresses, but externally, the router will only have on IP address, so all of their posts will appear with the same IP address.

Is it possible that Notch and CR and SS were working at the same company? Very doubtful, because *the vast majority of the time* they posted from different IP addresses. And with the relentless way that Notch and his various incarnations repeatedly attempted to by-pass our "security measures" I would not put it past him to actually have set up two different access methods (e.g. having both Bell and Rogers -- after all if you have a landline with Bell you can probably still get a free dialup account); and the

Other possibilities exist, of course: airport terminals and other free public wifi hotspots, mobile devices within the same cell, public access terminals like you'd have at a university or public library.

Look I do not pretend to know everything (or even a lot) about IP, but I do work in the industry, I have friends and co-workers I can ask, and I will actually understand their answers; I know more than the average person, and from what I know, I have to admit that something odd was going on. If you check the IP address from most members' posts, they are the only one to have ever used that IP address. And this has been like that for years. So using the same IP address as has been used in the past by Notch is very, very suspicious, but not ironclad proof.

I would be very uncomfortable making a decision to ban someone (let alone two) based on the IP address evidence alone. Trust me when I say, there were other "things" that contributed to the decision making process.

And if Rooney understood the evidence like he thinks he does, he might not be doing his little Snoopy Happy Dance right now.


What's not to understand? All signs point to CR being the fraud that I have maintained him to be, for months. I don't claim to know anything about IPs; that stuff was for experts like you to judge on.

All I had was a body of evidence, circumstantial, but highly suspicious, compiled over quite some time: posting habits, mannerisms of writing, evasive answers, and so on. The IP stuff was the icing on the cake. Nobody listened to me and N4L eight months ago, and it wasn't me who finally did the IP stuff.

The real irony of all this is that CR brought this on himself. His attempts to proselytize others against me backfired big time when the raised the suspicions of another mod, which got him talking to me. And then that mod did the real work. It would appear that enough of you mods, with far greater knowledge of this stuff than me, got together and agreed that there was an extremely suspicious pattern in all this.

That's good enough for me.

77New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:09 pm

Guest


Guest
Did you analyze his penmanship?

78New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:09 pm

Hockeyhero22000


Veteran
Veteran
rooneypoo wrote:
wprager wrote:
marakh wrote:So you guys are telling me you didn't know CR was Notch?
Pretty sure N4L and Rooney were saying that for weeks and I didn't post it here but N4L gave me the proofs by PM and said they also gave it to you guys (the admins) but you didn't really look into the matter.

Anyways, about attracting new people, there's quite a few I like on HF, not sure if you guys who have an account there would be able to get htem here. On top of my head, Minister of Offense, Xspyrit, Billy MAdison (ok, this guy I suspect is N4L, too many similar arguments, sentence constructions etc minus the grammar mistakes)

Yes, and we all know what a top-notch forensic IP investigator Neely was, right?

Here's the thing. As mods we can see a few extra buttons next to people's posts. One of those is the IP button, which shows us information about the IP used to make the post. It shows the IP address (the numbers), you can click through to see the geographic location associated with that IP, then there is a list of all users who have posted using that IP (usually it is just one user) and, lastly, all the other IPs that this user has used in the past.

Few people have static IPs, but even the dynamic ones can be nearly static. Go ahead, turn off your Rogers modem, then back on, and you will most likely have the same IP address assigned to you (unless the HUB is out of IP addresses and more users are trying to get on). So because of this, it is *highly* unlikely that two users who are *not* in the same household (e.g. SpezD and SensGirl11) will ever post with the same IP address.

Highly unlikely is not the same as proof positive. For example, if you are posting at work then you are most likely sitting behind a NAT router (it performs Network Address Translation to route multiple packets destined to the same externally-visible IP address, to one of many internally-assigned ones). It works the same way with a wireless router at home. For example, SpezD and SG11 may have two laptops and a wireless router, sharing the same home connection. Within their home wireless network they will have two separate, locally administered IP addresses, but externally, the router will only have on IP address, so all of their posts will appear with the same IP address.

Is it possible that Notch and CR and SS were working at the same company? Very doubtful, because *the vast majority of the time* they posted from different IP addresses. And with the relentless way that Notch and his various incarnations repeatedly attempted to by-pass our "security measures" I would not put it past him to actually have set up two different access methods (e.g. having both Bell and Rogers -- after all if you have a landline with Bell you can probably still get a free dialup account); and the

Other possibilities exist, of course: airport terminals and other free public wifi hotspots, mobile devices within the same cell, public access terminals like you'd have at a university or public library.

Look I do not pretend to know everything (or even a lot) about IP, but I do work in the industry, I have friends and co-workers I can ask, and I will actually understand their answers; I know more than the average person, and from what I know, I have to admit that something odd was going on. If you check the IP address from most members' posts, they are the only one to have ever used that IP address. And this has been like that for years. So using the same IP address as has been used in the past by Notch is very, very suspicious, but not ironclad proof.

I would be very uncomfortable making a decision to ban someone (let alone two) based on the IP address evidence alone. Trust me when I say, there were other "things" that contributed to the decision making process.

And if Rooney understood the evidence like he thinks he does, he might not be doing his little Snoopy Happy Dance right now.


What's not to understand? All signs point to CR being the fraud that I have maintained him to be, for months. I don't claim to know anything about IPs; that stuff was for experts like you to judge on.

All I had was a body of evidence, circumstantial, but highly suspicious, compiled over quite some time: posting habits, mannerisms of writing, evasive answers, and so on. The IP stuff was the icing on the cake. Nobody listened to me and N4L eight months ago, and it wasn't me who finally did the IP stuff.

The real irony of all this is that CR brought this on himself. His attempts to proselytize others against me backfired big time when the raised the suspicions of another mod, which got him talking to me. And then that mod did the real work. It would appear that enough of you mods, with far greater knowledge of this stuff than me, got together and agreed that there was an extremely suspicious pattern in all this.

That's good enough for me.

huh? can you dumb that word down a bit

79New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:18 pm

Riprock

Riprock
All-Star
All-Star
Thanks, Google Laughing3
"pros·e·lyt·ize/ˈpräsələˌtīz/Verb
1. Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another: "the program had a tremendous effect, proselytizing many"; "proselytizing for converts".
2. Advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)."

Rooney, surely you know how paranoid you come across, don't you? And for you to believe that one person is capable of making a bunch of internet users on a message board have a different opinion of you based on what they say and tell us to do, is also very belittling of our intelligence? I am pretty sure we are capable of forming our own judgments and opinions.

80New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:32 pm

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
All-Star
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Dash wrote:Thanks, Google Laughing3
"pros·e·lyt·ize/ˈpräsələˌtīz/Verb
1. Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another: "the program had a tremendous effect, proselytizing many"; "proselytizing for converts".
2. Advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)."

Rooney, surely you know how paranoid you come across, don't you? And for you to believe that one person is capable of making a bunch of internet users on a message board have a different opinion of you based on what they say and tell us to do, is also very belittling of our intelligence? I am pretty sure we are capable of forming our own judgments and opinions.

What can I say, we wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation -- hell, this thread wouldn't be here at all -- if the evidence didn't speak for itself. And that evidence had nothing to do with me. I don't know Dung about IP addresses and never claimed to. Whatever decision made today was made, I assure you, without consulting my judgment; I've been accused of wearing a Tin Foil Hat for months.

On the smearing thing, all I can say is that he was almost certainly the one behind the systematic minusing of my account that happened back when we had a rep system (in retrospect, I don't see how there's any doubt about this now), and that I know for a fact that he was sending out PMs to people, telling them how awful I was & how he hoped they were his friend, because I have seen some of them. You do with that what you want.

81New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:37 pm

Guest


Guest
What did Roach say in his defense?

82New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:42 pm

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
What happened to PKC?

83New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:50 pm

The Silfer Server

The Silfer Server
Veteran
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rooneypoo wrote:
What can I say, we wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation -- hell, this thread wouldn't be here at all -- if the evidence didn't speak for itself. And that evidence had nothing to do with me. I don't know Dung about IP addresses and never claimed to. Whatever decision made today was made, I assure you, without consulting my judgment; I've been accused of wearing a Tin Foil Hat for months.

On the smearing thing, all I can say is that he was almost certainly the one behind the systematic minusing of my account that happened back when we had a rep system (in retrospect, I don't see how there's any doubt about this now), and that I know for a fact that he was sending out PMs to people, telling them how awful I was & how he hoped they were his friend, because I have seen some of them. You do with that what you want.

Hhahahah... that's actually really sad. It's funny, and sad at the same time. Weird how that works.

84New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:06 pm

strachattack

strachattack
Rookie
Rookie
rooneypoo wrote:
Dash wrote:Thanks, Google Laughing3
"pros·e·lyt·ize/ˈpräsələˌtīz/Verb
1. Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another: "the program had a tremendous effect, proselytizing many"; "proselytizing for converts".
2. Advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)."

Rooney, surely you know how paranoid you come across, don't you? And for you to believe that one person is capable of making a bunch of internet users on a message board have a different opinion of you based on what they say and tell us to do, is also very belittling of our intelligence? I am pretty sure we are capable of forming our own judgments and opinions.

What can I say, we wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation -- hell, this thread wouldn't be here at all -- if the evidence didn't speak for itself. And that evidence had nothing to do with me. I don't know Dung about IP addresses and never claimed to. Whatever decision made today was made, I assure you, without consulting my judgment; I've been accused of wearing a Tin Foil Hat for months.

On the smearing thing, all I can say is that he was almost certainly the one behind the systematic minusing of my account that happened back when we had a rep system (in retrospect, I don't see how there's any doubt about this now), and that I know for a fact that he was sending out PMs to people, telling them how awful I was & how he hoped they were his friend, because I have seen some of them. You do with that what you want.

Wow... so Notch was CockRoche and Straight Shooter (not to mention other monikers that failed) and on top of that sent PM's to people dissing you? That dude must be insane. Why would he do that? Loony

85New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:18 pm

Guest


Guest
Big Ev wrote:Who uses 2 different accounts at the same time? LOL

I know, right?

86New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:19 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
asq3 wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Who uses 2 different accounts at the same time? LOL

I know, right?

Hey, I thought they told you to get rid of it! Sarcasm


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87New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:22 pm

hemlock

hemlock
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All-Star
Big Ev wrote:What happened to PKC?

He hasn't been around in awhile sadly.

IIRC, his last post was a huge post on the sad state of affairs with regards to the Sens.

88New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:24 pm

Hockeyhero22000

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Veteran
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hemlock wrote:
Big Ev wrote:What happened to PKC?

He hasn't been around in awhile sadly.

IIRC, his last post was a huge post on the sad state of affairs with regards to the Sens.
if you go to members on the top you can see he just hasnt been here since nov 26

89New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:27 pm

hemlock

hemlock
All-Star
All-Star
Dash wrote:Nothing CockRoche posted on the board is worthy of a ban; and his posts were of value. If this is all because of the past and based on what appears to be a vindictive plot against him, that is very sad.

It only appears that way because you don't have the whole story.

90New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:29 pm

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
hemlock wrote:
Big Ev wrote:What happened to PKC?

He hasn't been around in awhile sadly.

IIRC, his last post was a huge post on the sad state of affairs with regards to the Sens.

I know he still posts at HFBoards though.

91New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:39 pm

hemlock

hemlock
All-Star
All-Star
Big Ev wrote:
hemlock wrote:
Big Ev wrote:What happened to PKC?

He hasn't been around in awhile sadly.

IIRC, his last post was a huge post on the sad state of affairs with regards to the Sens.

I know he still posts at HFBoards though.

I've never been to HFBoards. How is it?

92New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:50 pm

asq2

asq2
All-Star
All-Star
hemlock wrote:I've never been to HFBoards. How is it?

Way better than HB/TSN comments/Senschirp comments, though that in itself doesn't say much.

Over-all, there are a lot of excellent posters and there's a tonne of knowledge about prospects. And a lot of over-rating prospects.

As far as the Sens board, there's a group that constantly harps on Murray, which gets aggravating even if there's a ring of truth to what they say, then there's a group that still argues Spezza is like a top-3 centre, then there's the group that over-rates all our prospects, then there's the group whose only focus is the scouting and acquisition of big players, then there are just straight-up trolls, etc. But it's such a huge poster-base that it's to be expected and there are a number of knowledgeable/great posters mixed in.

EDIT: Also there's a Bruins fan (I think) with over something like 70,000 posts and a Flyers fan at around that number IIRC.

93New rules for new members - Page 6 Empty Re: New rules for new members on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:53 pm

strachattack

strachattack
Rookie
Rookie
asq2 wrote:
hemlock wrote:I've never been to HFBoards. How is it?

Way better than HB/TSN comments/Senschirp comments, though that in itself doesn't say much.

Over-all, there are a lot of excellent posters and there's a tonne of knowledge about prospects. And a lot of over-rating prospects.

As far as the Sens board, there's a group that constantly harps on Murray, which gets aggravating even if there's a ring of truth to what they say, then there's a group that still argues Spezza is like a top-3 centre, then there's the group that over-rates all our prospects, then there's the group whose only focus is the scouting and acquisition of big players, then there are just straight-up trolls, etc. But it's such a huge poster-base that it's to be expected and there are a number of knowledgeable/great posters mixed in.

EDIT: Also there's a Bruins fan (I think) with over something like 70,000 posts and a Flyers fan at around that number IIRC.

Has anyone ever frequented or checked out Sensnation or Sensnetwork?

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