The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

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    NEELY
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:53 pm

    I just don't understand how someone can be such a loser...


    Last edited by NEELY on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Number Twenty Nine
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by Number Twenty Nine on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:59 pm

    Wouldn't many users posting from one wireless hot spot have the same IP address? ie. Starbucks, McD's a Mall etc.....

    Seems to me the correct course of action would be to err on the side of caution. It doesn't bother me if he had a million accounts. Each violation needs to be considered one by one and dealt with one by one.

    What I mean here is: if the one user is being offensive and needs to be banned, then so be it. But I wouldn't ban a nick on speculation. Especially if that nick didn't offend. That's not the correct thing to do.

    You guys have every right to do with your site as you will, but I have to put my hand up to say that this witch hunt doesn't sit well with me. I'm not big on drama.




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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by Number Twenty Nine on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:01 pm

    NEELY wrote:I just don't understand how someone can be such a loser... I mean, how has he not killed himself yet?


    see, this to me is offensive and in poor taste....

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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:09 pm

    Number Twenty Nine wrote:
    NEELY wrote:I just don't understand how someone can be such a loser...


    see, this to me is offensive and in poor taste....

    Edited.
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    Riprock
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by Riprock on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:09 pm

    Exactly 29... that's my major objection, that members here went out of their way to attack CR on numerous occasions about this whole thing and yet he didn't retaliate at all and contributed in a positive way in the site. I never got a PM from him asking me to take sides, and that is surprising because he and I aw eye to eye on a lot of things and we conversed via PM about the videos I shot of Lehner and the interview and all that. So based on postings on the site alone, CockRoche was civil and a positive contributing member to the site, which is more than can be said about some members.

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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:13 pm

    Dash wrote:Exactly 29... that's my major objection, that members here went out of their way to attack CR on numerous occasions about this whole thing and yet he didn't retaliate at all and contributed in a positive way in the site. I never got a PM from him asking me to take sides, and that is surprising because he and I aw eye to eye on a lot of things and we conversed via PM about the videos I shot of Lehner and the interview and all that. So based on postings on the site alone, CockRoche was civil and a positive contributing member to the site, which is more than can be said about some members.

    One, his name is Notch. CR is basically an alter ego created by him where he lied to everyone. Anyways, seems like you really truly want to believe it's not the same person. OJ didn't do it either, eh?
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by Riprock on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:18 pm

    I guess I am one to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. One, I had no issue with the member known as CockRoche. Second, the only problem I can see was not how this member behaved, but how other members went out of their way to have him banned.

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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:22 pm

    Dash wrote:I guess I am one to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. One, I had no issue with the member known as CockRoche. Second, the only problem I can see was not how this member behaved, but how other members went out of their way to have him banned.

    You realize giving him the benefit of the doubt is just ignoring all the evidence, right? Like Rooney said, the odds are that of the chance of winning the lotto. The guy played a lot of you for fools and you are still buying it. He literally lied about being someone (who again, was an instructor on ice when I was a kid, in Lindsey, ON and knew it was BS from the very begining) just so he could earn an instant rep that was all BS.
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    rooneypoo
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by rooneypoo on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:54 pm

    Dash wrote:I guess I am one to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. One, I had no issue with the member known as CockRoche. Second, the only problem I can see was not how this member behaved, but how other members went out of their way to have him banned.

    Uh, as a guy who faced a torrent of abuse from CR over the last 6 months or so... I'd say, yeah, there was a problem with his behaviour. Go check out those old exchanges with new eyes. Saying Diddle you politely is still saying Diddle you all the same.

    I can't believe people can know they were being manipulated but still want more because they enjoyed it at the time. Whaaa?
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by rooneypoo on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:55 pm

    Dash wrote:Exactly 29... that's my major objection, that members here went out of their way to attack CR on numerous occasions about this whole thing and yet he didn't retaliate at all and contributed in a positive way in the site. I never got a PM from him asking me to take sides, and that is surprising because he and I aw eye to eye on a lot of things and we conversed via PM about the videos I shot of Lehner and the interview and all that. So based on postings on the site alone, CockRoche was civil and a positive contributing member to the site, which is more than can be said about some members.

    OMFG, I can't believe I'm reading this Dung. Get a clue, seriously.
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    asq2
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by asq2 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:17 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Dash wrote:I guess I am one to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. One, I had no issue with the member known as CockRoche. Second, the only problem I can see was not how this member behaved, but how other members went out of their way to have him banned.

    Uh, as a guy who faced a torrent of abuse from CR over the last 6 months or so... I'd say, yeah, there was a problem with his behaviour. Go check out those old exchanges with new eyes. Saying Diddle you politely is still saying Diddle you all the same.

    I can't believe people can know they were being manipulated but still want more because they enjoyed it at the time. Whaaa?

    Just FYI, I tried doing this by reading over your old posts but it won't let you go back far enough.

    EDIT: OK, I just read through the last 257 posts CR made on the site and I didn't see anything vituperative - with the possible exception of his reaction immediately after the Kelly trade, but that didn't seem to be because of anything personal but just a fan's reaction. And he apologized for it.

    Now maybe the attacking posts were deleted or occurred prior to the posts I read or maybe I'm so used to having ignore all the bickering that goes on here, but I don't see that he did anything wrong --- as Roche. Obviously FireOnIce and Notch were antagonistic but I don't know anything about the whole IP thing so I'll stay out of that.

    Now, I don't intend to dispute the GM admins or other members here but if Roche was well-behaved -- and maybe he wasn't, but he appeared so to me -- then I'm not sure about the timing of this ban; either he'd continue to make good posts and there'd be no reason to remove him from the site, or he'd start really going after you and then it'd be easy to ban him. And if he was seriously trolling/attacking, instead of the minor/not-so-minor bickering that a lot of us do, then he should have been banned for that and this IP thing needn't have come up.

    As far as him "stating his opinion as gospel/fact" or whatever the other criticism was, we all do that, so that's a non-issue.

    Anyway, I think we're all a little wound up because of the way this season has gone. Again, this isn't intended as a serious criticism of the site or its members but I didn't feel like withholding my thoughts any longer.

    Cheers.

    Cheers


    Last edited by asq2 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by rooneypoo on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:36 pm

    Here's a true & accurate history of the awful 'witch hunt' against CR:

    1) CR arrives on the scene. Everything in his name tag (location, etc.) accords with the real Roche. His "identity" comes out on the board. N4L, who knew the real Roche, says "Dung, you're Notch." CR defends himself. N4L asks a simple question the real Roche should have been able to answer, but doesn't.

    2) N4L, suspicious because of the above, tracks CR on the member locator. CR keeps showing up in Newmarket, home of Notch, aka Steve Johnson. SS shows up from there, too; N4L tells me he suspects both are the same guy, and that both guys are Notch. We try to make the mods aware of this, but the case is dismissed. N4L leaves is disgust, bewildered that people would want to be lied to about this. This is 6 months ago or so.

    3) Months pass. The poison that is Notch spreads over this site -- just like we said it would. I take a lot of heat because I think CR is full of it. I routinely get beat up on the boards for saying anything about CR, while CR takes shots at me all day long.

    4) As a result of this ritualistic thrashing in the threads, Hemlock starts to talk to me via PM, ironically because of the way one of the other mods is treating me. Shortly after, Hemlock receives a few greasy, oily, flattering 'I like you, you like me, Poo is awful' PMs from CR. Hemlock expresses to me his dislike of CR to me, partly because of these emails, partly for other reasons; I concur, alluding, in one passing sentence, to the suspicion that CR is Notch. Hemlock, without my instigation, with mod powers, runs a few searches, which ends up connecting all the Notch accounts, CR, and SS together. He sends me this info, and brings it to the rest of the mods. And the real kicker: I hadn't even mentioned to Hemlock that I thought CR and SS were the same person; the evidence itself showed that that was the case.

    The real irony of the thing is that Notch was his own undoing. Notch / CR tried to recruit a mod into his following who happened to be on friendly terms with me, and who independently connected the dots together, bringing together a picture I long suspected, but couldn't prove. And the leadership on this site, which had long thought I was wearing a Tin Foil Hat and who routinely let CR and his cronies beat me up on the boards, ultimately made their decision without any new input from me. Everything I knew, I said, with N4L, some 6 months ago.

    So, yeah, the 'witch hunt' on CR amounts to Hemlock running 10 minutes worth of IP checks on CR's posts, which turned up connecting that account to 5 other Notch accounts as well as SS's. And that's the story as far I as know it anyway.

    Again, if you want to be lied to, go watch Fox News or something.

    EDIT: although I should say that the Cap'n & Wprager have both insisted repeatedly that the IP info wasn't the only thing they were looking at when they banned CR. All I can do is piece together what happened from where I was sitting.


    Last edited by rooneypoo on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by rooneypoo on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:37 pm

    asq2 wrote:
    rooneypoo wrote:
    Dash wrote:I guess I am one to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. One, I had no issue with the member known as CockRoche. Second, the only problem I can see was not how this member behaved, but how other members went out of their way to have him banned.

    Uh, as a guy who faced a torrent of abuse from CR over the last 6 months or so... I'd say, yeah, there was a problem with his behaviour. Go check out those old exchanges with new eyes. Saying Diddle you politely is still saying Diddle you all the same.

    I can't believe people can know they were being manipulated but still want more because they enjoyed it at the time. Whaaa?

    Just FYI, I tried doing this but it won't let you go back far enough.

    Yeah, you unfortunately have to go to the threads themselves. It takes some digging. Look for threads that are locked first. Laugh1

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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:39 pm

    I don't even know what to say to Dash anymore, he just seems he doesn't want to admit he was taken for a fool by a guy who is still actually lying to him.

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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:42 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Dash wrote:Exactly 29... that's my major objection, that members here went out of their way to attack CR on numerous occasions about this whole thing and yet he didn't retaliate at all and contributed in a positive way in the site. I never got a PM from him asking me to take sides, and that is surprising because he and I aw eye to eye on a lot of things and we conversed via PM about the videos I shot of Lehner and the interview and all that. So based on postings on the site alone, CockRoche was civil and a positive contributing member to the site, which is more than can be said about some members.

    OMFG, I can't believe I'm reading this Dung. Get a clue, seriously.

    Basically this.
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by asq2 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:49 pm

    I updated my above post. I guess I don't know anything about the PMs, though.

    You have to admit that the majority of the posts he made -- or at least all the ones I saw -- were good hockey talk. Sometimes we get angry at each-other because we hold different opinions but that's a completely different issue and it happens with pretty much all of us.

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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:50 pm

    asq2 wrote:I updated my above post. I guess I don't know anything about the PMs, though.

    You have to admit that the majority of the posts he made -- or at least all the ones I saw -- were good hockey talk. Sometimes we get angry at each-other because we hold different opinions but that's a completely different issue and it happens with pretty much all of us.

    Who? Notch, Cloverleaf, FireOnIce, SS, or Cocke Roche?
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    Re: The long investigation that led to the new sponsorship rules

    Post by asq2 on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:57 pm

    CockRoche.

    Now you might disagree with his posts, sure. But what I saw was hockey-related and IMO a welcome contribution.

    I guess I'm just not entirely convinced of the legitimacy of evaluating CockRoche through the Notch lens rather than looking at that account as its own entity. Part of me thinks he should have been banned for what he did on that account, not what he did as FireOnIce. What was the risk of letting him stay, so long as he was making good posts? Was he going to turn us against you guys, have us kick you and Rooney off the site, and rule over us in his various accounts as the ideological hegemony? Or was he just going to attack you? In which case we'd cross the bridge when we arrive at it and ban him then.

    Now, this is my opinion without having seen PMs or any of the attacking posts that you say happened prior to the ones I can see. And in the case of the latter, if they were ban-worthy he should have been banned then, for those. Not because of this IP thing.

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