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All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011

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886All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:21 pm

SensHulk


All-Star
All-Star
spader wrote:
Michallica wrote:
spader wrote:The riots are a national embarrassment. Cussing ridiculous.

It's a national embarrassment if you considered vancouver canada's team....for me they weren't. Vancouver just embarrassed themselves. The class of Edmonton, Ottawa, Calgary, and yes even Montreal fans shows vancouver is just a bad batch in an otherwise good crop.

From an outside perspective, the riots happened in Canada first and Vancouver second. The riots reflect on the entire nation.

good point. Pot shots are already being taken and its a damn shame...

887All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:41 pm

SensHulk


All-Star
All-Star
getting back to the game, great to see kelly lift the cup. It was an eerie feeling, even after all these years, to see chara lifting the cup. Hats off to him and chiarelli. although that kessell deal is what really made them cup winners.

also I think this is the first time a team from the now existing northeast division won the cup. A team from all other divisions had at least won the cup.

888All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:48 pm

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran
dennycrane wrote:With that cup presentation, all I can say is.....


^%$^ YOU, MUCKLER!!!

I agree...

Brydon should have been smart enough to move up old man Muckler (that is what he was) and put in Chiarelli. Still would have had Hossa & Chara. Yeah Sens were near the cap.. but there could have been others that could have been traded. One main problem is Brydon did not have the money. The team was leveraged to the hilt. Melnyk came in too late.

889All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:52 pm

SensHulk

SensHulk
All-Star
All-Star
sandysensfan wrote:
dennycrane wrote:With that cup presentation, all I can say is.....


^%$^ YOU, MUCKLER!!!

I agree...

Brydon should have been smart enough to move up old man Muckler (that is what he was) and put in Chiarelli. Still would have had Hossa & Chara. Yeah Sens were near the cap.. but there could have been others that could have been traded. One main problem is Brydon did not have the money. The team was leveraged to the hilt. Melnyk came in too late.

How so? Melnyk came in for the end of 2003 and start of 2003-2004 season. We still had chara and hossa and chiarelli. Muckler was just old-school and got rid of anyone who wanted any kind of a raise

890All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:57 pm

SeawaySensFan

SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Michallica wrote:
sandysensfan wrote:
dennycrane wrote:With that cup presentation, all I can say is.....


^%$^ YOU, MUCKLER!!!

I agree...

Brydon should have been smart enough to move up old man Muckler (that is what he was) and put in Chiarelli. Still would have had Hossa & Chara. Yeah Sens were near the cap.. but there could have been others that could have been traded. One main problem is Brydon did not have the money. The team was leveraged to the hilt. Melnyk came in too late.

How so? Melnyk came in for the end of 2003 and start of 2003-2004 season. We still had chara and hossa and chiarelli. Muckler was just old-school and got rid of anyone who wanted any kind of a raise

It's the fact that Mlakar hired his cronie, Mucks, that started the Diddle-ups.

A lot of the top scouting and front-office split when that was done. Some were loyal to Old Man Johnston and others just figured they were deserving to succeed Johnston.

891All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:00 pm

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran
SpezDispenser wrote:
sandysensfan wrote:
There are a lot of fans blaming Murray for ruining this team. But if you look at it -- the previous owner.. deciding to let Chiarelli go to Boston.... letting Muckler blind-side Hossa after he signed that contract. Yes they were near the cap.. but there could have been others to move. That blindsiding of Hossa... really upset Chara. I think that is part of the reason he left. Getting absolutely nothing for Havlat.
Havlat was gone to free agency -- but you would think Muckler could have gotten more than Hennessey, Barinka... and I can't even remember who else..
But losing Hossa & Chara really hurt the future of this team. Where would they be right now with both of these players? I curse Muckler every time I see both of these players.

If I was to take an unbiased view - which is really hard - I'd say:

1.Melnyk knew what was happening with Hossa/Heatley, so he needed to learn that you don't do that kind of thing.

2.They (Melnyk and Muckler) didn't think the cap would continue to rise from the 45 million it was to the 65 million it will be. That was something that I think a lot of GMs didn't realize and it cost us soooo badly we're still feeling it today. I'd have to look at the team at the moment we let Chara walk and try to see where we could have changed things, but Diddle...as if we lost Chara.

3.Havlat was as close to a Dany Heatley situation as can be - without being that situation. Havlat wanted 6 million per year, Ottawa couldn't do it, so they tried to trade him, but how many teams could take on a 6 million dollar player like Havlat + be willing to give up assets to do it. Barinka and Hennessy were terrible choices by a GM and scouting staff that is literally half as good as it is today. I wish to goodness we had a better staff in place to grab 2 blue chips. The other piece of that trade was a 2nd round pick which Murray used to grab Wiercioch - so that's a nice piece out of it, but clearly a bad deal in retrospect.


One correction I believe... Rod Brydon was the owner during the Hossa/Heatley trade. I don't think he had the cash to pay Hossa.
Havlat wanted to try free agency. I don't think he even discussed contract (I could be wrong on that though). That's his right.. I hold nothing against him. But at least get something better for a really good player.
Muckler made a lot of bad decisions with this team. Murray has as well.. let's not forget that. But he inherited a mess of a franchise -- even though they went to the Cup Final. No cap space. About 4 or 5 key players to sign within the first 2 yrs of his tenure.. No prospects to fill in for departing players. Bad decisions on free agent signings or trade -- Leclaire (although that helped get Lehner), Kovalev. Bad coaches.
But let's now hope the future is brighter. It's time to not dwell on the past and move forward with a young team.. and what appears to be a good coach. I'm excited for next season.

892All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:02 pm

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
sandysensfan wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
sandysensfan wrote:
There are a lot of fans blaming Murray for ruining this team. But if you look at it -- the previous owner.. deciding to let Chiarelli go to Boston.... letting Muckler blind-side Hossa after he signed that contract. Yes they were near the cap.. but there could have been others to move. That blindsiding of Hossa... really upset Chara. I think that is part of the reason he left. Getting absolutely nothing for Havlat.
Havlat was gone to free agency -- but you would think Muckler could have gotten more than Hennessey, Barinka... and I can't even remember who else..
But losing Hossa & Chara really hurt the future of this team. Where would they be right now with both of these players? I curse Muckler every time I see both of these players.

If I was to take an unbiased view - which is really hard - I'd say:

1.Melnyk knew what was happening with Hossa/Heatley, so he needed to learn that you don't do that kind of thing.

2.They (Melnyk and Muckler) didn't think the cap would continue to rise from the 45 million it was to the 65 million it will be. That was something that I think a lot of GMs didn't realize and it cost us soooo badly we're still feeling it today. I'd have to look at the team at the moment we let Chara walk and try to see where we could have changed things, but Diddle...as if we lost Chara.

3.Havlat was as close to a Dany Heatley situation as can be - without being that situation. Havlat wanted 6 million per year, Ottawa couldn't do it, so they tried to trade him, but how many teams could take on a 6 million dollar player like Havlat + be willing to give up assets to do it. Barinka and Hennessy were terrible choices by a GM and scouting staff that is literally half as good as it is today. I wish to goodness we had a better staff in place to grab 2 blue chips. The other piece of that trade was a 2nd round pick which Murray used to grab Wiercioch - so that's a nice piece out of it, but clearly a bad deal in retrospect.


One correction I believe... Rod Brydon was the owner during the Hossa/Heatley trade. I don't think he had the cash to pay Hossa.
Havlat wanted to try free agency. I don't think he even discussed contract (I could be wrong on that though). That's his right.. I hold nothing against him. But at least get something better for a really good player.
Muckler made a lot of bad decisions with this team. Murray has as well.. let's not forget that. But he inherited a mess of a franchise -- even though they went to the Cup Final. No cap space. About 4 or 5 key players to sign within the first 2 yrs of his tenure.. No prospects to fill in for departing players. Bad decisions on free agent signings or trade -- Leclaire (although that helped get Lehner), Kovalev. Bad coaches.
But let's now hope the future is brighter. It's time to not dwell on the past and move forward with a young team.. and what appears to be a good coach. I'm excited for next season.

Rod Brydon was long gone when the Hossa trade happened.

893All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:04 pm

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran
Michallica wrote:
sandysensfan wrote:
dennycrane wrote:With that cup presentation, all I can say is.....


^%$^ YOU, MUCKLER!!!

I agree...

Brydon should have been smart enough to move up old man Muckler (that is what he was) and put in Chiarelli. Still would have had Hossa & Chara. Yeah Sens were near the cap.. but there could have been others that could have been traded. One main problem is Brydon did not have the money. The team was leveraged to the hilt. Melnyk came in too late.

How so? Melnyk came in for the end of 2003 and start of 2003-2004 season. We still had chara and hossa and chiarelli. Muckler was just old-school and got rid of anyone who wanted any kind of a raise

My mistake... I thought for sure it was Brydon... still Muckler... I can't understand how Melnyk kept him...Could he not see Chiarelli was the better man?

894All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:05 pm

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran
Big Ev wrote:
sandysensfan wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
sandysensfan wrote:
There are a lot of fans blaming Murray for ruining this team. But if you look at it -- the previous owner.. deciding to let Chiarelli go to Boston.... letting Muckler blind-side Hossa after he signed that contract. Yes they were near the cap.. but there could have been others to move. That blindsiding of Hossa... really upset Chara. I think that is part of the reason he left. Getting absolutely nothing for Havlat.
Havlat was gone to free agency -- but you would think Muckler could have gotten more than Hennessey, Barinka... and I can't even remember who else..
But losing Hossa & Chara really hurt the future of this team. Where would they be right now with both of these players? I curse Muckler every time I see both of these players.

If I was to take an unbiased view - which is really hard - I'd say:

1.Melnyk knew what was happening with Hossa/Heatley, so he needed to learn that you don't do that kind of thing.

2.They (Melnyk and Muckler) didn't think the cap would continue to rise from the 45 million it was to the 65 million it will be. That was something that I think a lot of GMs didn't realize and it cost us soooo badly we're still feeling it today. I'd have to look at the team at the moment we let Chara walk and try to see where we could have changed things, but Diddle...as if we lost Chara.

3.Havlat was as close to a Dany Heatley situation as can be - without being that situation. Havlat wanted 6 million per year, Ottawa couldn't do it, so they tried to trade him, but how many teams could take on a 6 million dollar player like Havlat + be willing to give up assets to do it. Barinka and Hennessy were terrible choices by a GM and scouting staff that is literally half as good as it is today. I wish to goodness we had a better staff in place to grab 2 blue chips. The other piece of that trade was a 2nd round pick which Murray used to grab Wiercioch - so that's a nice piece out of it, but clearly a bad deal in retrospect.


One correction I believe... Rod Brydon was the owner during the Hossa/Heatley trade. I don't think he had the cash to pay Hossa.
Havlat wanted to try free agency. I don't think he even discussed contract (I could be wrong on that though). That's his right.. I hold nothing against him. But at least get something better for a really good player.
Muckler made a lot of bad decisions with this team. Murray has as well.. let's not forget that. But he inherited a mess of a franchise -- even though they went to the Cup Final. No cap space. About 4 or 5 key players to sign within the first 2 yrs of his tenure.. No prospects to fill in for departing players. Bad decisions on free agent signings or trade -- Leclaire (although that helped get Lehner), Kovalev. Bad coaches.
But let's now hope the future is brighter. It's time to not dwell on the past and move forward with a young team.. and what appears to be a good coach. I'm excited for next season.

Rod Brydon was long gone when the Hossa trade happened.

Just realized that.... really thought it was Brydon...

895All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:55 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
sandysensfan wrote:My mistake... I thought for sure it was Brydon... still Muckler... I can't understand how Melnyk kept him...Could he not see Chiarelli was the better man?

That's tricky...Chiarelli did a nice job getting Chara and then Kelly, Kaberle, Peverly etc., but it took a while for him to earn his GM stripes. I doubt that's what Melnyk wanted at that point. Unfortunately Muckler - even though he built the team that went to the Cup - didn't know what the term 'prospect' meant and had ZERO time for Binghamton. And that killed us as you said, when Murray took over there was nobody to come up through the ranks + every Tom, D_ick and Harry needed a new contract and substantial raise. That was bad luck with Spezza's deal (it would have been longer and lower today) and Heatley (same thing, longer and lower), Fisher etc. When things started to go south we had jack Dung to come up and push guys like Vermette and Kelly for their roles on the team - to not even mention the 2nd line - or lack thereof. Bad timing, let's hope everyone's learned from the mistakes so we can build a real winner this time.

896All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:02 pm

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
People... it's Rod Bryden. Let's trash him properly...

Wink

897All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:26 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Beat me to it, Shabbs. I actually worked for him once. My first job out of university was at a company called XIOS, which was part of his stable. Three months in a quarter of the company was laid off; less than a year after that, the rest of us. This guy was bankrupt, owed his creditors a ton of money, yet somehow, just 6 years later he is the owner of an NHL team. How's that possible?


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

898All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:09 pm

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
wprager wrote:Beat me to it, Shabbs. I actually worked for him once. My first job out of university was at a company called XIOS, which was part of his stable. Three months in a quarter of the company was laid off; less than a year after that, the rest of us. This guy was bankrupt, owed his creditors a ton of money, yet somehow, just 6 years later he is the owner of an NHL team. How's that possible?
Smoke and mirrors...

Boots Del Biaggio.

That is all.

899All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:04 pm

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
wprager wrote:Hmm,

http://twitpic.com/5c809d
This guy was apparently beating up on someone else and got knocked out himself... so, the picture alone looks bad... but there is context.

900All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:25 am

tim1_2

tim1_2
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Who doesn't like a good riot?

http://totallycoolpix.com/2011/06/vancouver-canucks-fans-riot/

901All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:42 am

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
tim1_2 wrote:Who doesn't like a good riot?

http://totallycoolpix.com/2011/06/vancouver-canucks-fans-riot/
I'm still amazed at what all happened... seems like a bad dream...

902All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:15 pm

tim1_2

tim1_2
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
It was more entertaining than the game itself.

Anyone else see the guy take the stun grenade in the nuts? Now THAT is good television.

903All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 - Page 60 Empty Re: All Playoff Talk, All the Time 2011 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:10 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
shabbs wrote:
wprager wrote:Hmm,

http://twitpic.com/5c809d
This guy was apparently beating up on someone else and got knocked out himself... so, the picture alone looks bad... but there is context.


I heard on the radio yesterday that there was one person in critical condition. Wonder if that was him.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

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