POLL: Would you trade for Parise?

Dash wrote:

NEELY wrote:Karlsson for Parise? In a second.

NEELY wrote:Parise is a legit franchise player and probably has 10 plus years in him. Karlsson as of yet is not.

Michallica wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:Karlsson for Parise? In a second.

Sorry SD, I agree with Neely. We've got Rundblad

Rundblad's done nothing yet. How can ppl say 'oh we got enough depth so we can trade karlsson' and then make the same argument that karlsson hasn't proven anything so its okay to trade him? IMO you trade the others before you trade a key roster player

stempniaksen wrote:For everyone saying they would trade Karlsson because we have Rundblad in the system need to give their head a bit of a shake, imo. This guy has yet to play a professional game in North America so we have no way of knowing what we really have on our hands until we see that. We have quite possibly the best offensive defenceman in the entire NHL (in 2 years) and people are willing to throw him into a deal for a winger (the least important position in the hierarchy).

As talented as Parise is I can barely get on board with straight up (and obviously NJ would never do that) so adding something significant on our end would be an awful decision imo.

Woooooh! I was on da mark with my analysis too

You should never trade a player based on a prospect you have so good call.

This needs a bump. My god ppl.....

Riprock wrote:

Dash wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:For everyone saying they would trade Karlsson because we have Rundblad in the system need to give their head a bit of a shake, imo. This guy has yet to play a professional game in North America so we have no way of knowing what we really have on our hands until we see that. We have quite possibly the best offensive defenceman in the entire NHL (in 2 years) and people are willing to throw him into a deal for a winger (the least important position in the hierarchy).

As talented as Parise is I can barely get on board with straight up (and obviously NJ would never do that) so adding something significant on our end would be an awful decision imo.

spader wrote:

stempniaksen wrote:And I come out looking like a genius...doesn't happen very often, so I'll let this one soak in, haha.

I don't get it.

Nice, stemp.

Michallica wrote:

Dash wrote:

NEELY wrote:Karlsson for Parise? In a second.

NEELY wrote:Parise is a legit franchise player and probably has 10 plus years in him. Karlsson as of yet is not.

Michallica wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:Karlsson for Parise? In a second.

Sorry SD, I agree with Neely. We've got Rundblad

Rundblad's done nothing yet. How can ppl say 'oh we got enough depth so we can trade karlsson' and then make the same argument that karlsson hasn't proven anything so its okay to trade him? IMO you trade the others before you trade a key roster player

stempniaksen wrote:For everyone saying they would trade Karlsson because we have Rundblad in the system need to give their head a bit of a shake, imo. This guy has yet to play a professional game in North America so we have no way of knowing what we really have on our hands until we see that. We have quite possibly the best offensive defenceman in the entire NHL (in 2 years) and people are willing to throw him into a deal for a winger (the least important position in the hierarchy).

As talented as Parise is I can barely get on board with straight up (and obviously NJ would never do that) so adding something significant on our end would be an awful decision imo.

Woooooh! I was on da mark with my analysis too

Nice, Mich.

Michallica wrote:This needs a bump. My god ppl.....

That was fun to go through.

To everyone who wanted to deal him, in fairness, I guess none of them thought he'd EVER be mentioned in the same sentence as norris trophy

Michallica wrote:To everyone who wanted to deal him, in fairness, I guess none of them thought he'd EVER be mentioned in the same sentence as norris trophy

The announcers kept comparing him to Coffey. At one point, one of them explained that Paul Coffey used to put up Karlsson numbers. The fact that he said the names in that order is telling.

What EK is doing this year is pretty Cussing special. Diddle the Norris, if he keeps up, does he get Hart consideration?

EDIT: I just realized that he's tied for the lead in goals scored among defencemen, too. The majority of his goal production has come in the last, what, 20 games? If he stays hot, there's no telling what he'll do with the rest of the season.

Michallica wrote:To everyone who wanted to deal him, in fairness, I guess none of them thought he'd EVER be mentioned in the same sentence as norris trophy

I was trying to get brownie points by agreeing with NEELY. That said, how long ago was that? Was it when he was -bazillion?

Yeah, EK's having an unreal year. That pass he made last night off the boards to setup Michalek was absurd.

There's no reason to think he can't keep this up going into next year either... I don't think he's the kind of guy that'll ease up once he lands his big contract. He seems to play hard just because he loves it.

tim1_2 wrote:Yeah, EK's having an unreal year. That pass he made last night off the boards to setup Michalek was absurd.

There's no reason to think he can't keep this up going into next year either... I don't think he's the kind of guy that'll ease up once he lands his big contract. He seems to play hard just because he loves it.

And it's not like he has no goals to try to achieve:

Most Points, One Season
139-Bobby Orr, 1970-71
138-Paul Coffey, 1985-86
135-Bobby Orr, 1974-75
126-Paul Coffey, 1983-84
122-Bobby Orr, 1973-74

Most Goals, One Season
48-Paul Coffey, 1985-86
46-Bobby Orr, 1974-75
40-Paul Coffey, 1983-84
39-Doug Wilson, 1981-82
37-Bobby Orr, 1970-71
37-Bobby Orr, 1971-72
37-Paul Coffey, 1984-85

OK, maybe these will never be matched without significant changes to the game. But single game records?

Most Goals, One Game
5-Ian Turnbull, Feb 2, 1977
4-4 goals have been scored in one game by a defenseman 8 times. The first to do it was Harry Cameron on
Dec 26, 1917, and the last to do it was Paul Coffey on Oct 26, 1984.

Most Assists, One Game
6-Babe Pratt, Jan 8, 1944
6-6 assists in one game have been recorded 5 other times, with the last by Gary Suter on Apr 4, 1986

OK, before everyone starts shouting me down, maybe we should look just at the records since the lockout:

Points: Lidstrom 80 in 2005-06: certainly within his sights this season.
Assists: Lidstrom 64 in 2005-06: he's on pace for 63 now, could be close.
Goals: Green 31 in 2008-09: I'm not going to say it's not achievable, but this one is tough.

Not to overstate the obvious or anything, but EK is basically a young, fast Lidstrom.

tim1_2 wrote:Not to overstate the obvious or anything, but EK is basically a young, fast Lidstrom.

Perhaps we're getting ahead of ourselves now...

SpezDispenser wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Not to overstate the obvious or anything, but EK is basically a young, fast Lidstrom.

Perhaps we're getting ahead of ourselves now...

Well, of course, but who else would you compare him to? His offensive output is mind-boggling. Obviously he will need to continue to produce for years to be truly comparable to Lidstrom, but at this point, his offensive numbers are eclipsing what Lidstrom did at the same age.

tim1_2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Not to overstate the obvious or anything, but EK is basically a young, fast Lidstrom.

Perhaps we're getting ahead of ourselves now...

Well, of course, but who else would you compare him to? His offensive output is mind-boggling. Obviously he will need to continue to produce for years to be truly comparable to Lidstrom, but at this point, his offensive numbers are eclipsing what Lidstrom did at the same age.

I don't know...Dan Boyle in his prime? Paul Coffey is probably the best comparison. Obviously he'll never get to 138 points and 48 goals, those are the 'live' puck eras with limited goaltending, but Karlsson's speed and his potential to put up 85 points in this NHL and his vision and his explosiveness...more Coffey than Leech, but a real nice player, holy Dung.

Lidstrom has the calm and cool factor in his own end where he eludes forecheckers and makes the most smart play every time, making him a great defensive defenseman and a great offensive D-man, if Karlsson can get to that level - and I wouldn't expect that for another 5+ years, then perhaps he'll be in there with Lidstrom.

That's all my opinion though obviously.

He plays more like Scott Niedermayer more than anyone else, I'd say.

rooneypoo wrote:He plays more like Scott Niedermayer more than anyone else, I'd say.

That's the name that was escaping me.

That's the comparison that was mentioned recently by some of the media panel guys.

Riprock wrote:That's the comparison that was mentioned recently by some of the media panel guys.

Sounds pretty fair actually. Although Karlsson has speed on Neidermayer.

Mostly the comparison was hockey IQ. Seeing the ice the way he does and playing a smart game. And the skill - Neidermayer wasn't a bad player.

Riprock wrote:Mostly the comparison was hockey IQ. Seeing the ice the way he does and playing a smart game. And the skill - Neidermayer wasn't a bad player.

Neidermayer was sickly skilled.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Riprock wrote:That's the comparison that was mentioned recently by some of the media panel guys.

Sounds pretty fair actually. Although Karlsson has speed on Neidermayer.

Huh? Scott Niedermayer was one of the greatest skating defencemen in the history of the game. Karlsson is a great skater, but I certainly wouldn't say he's got a leg up on Niedermayer in that regard.

Riprock wrote:Mostly the comparison was hockey IQ. Seeing the ice the way he does and playing a smart game. And the skill - Neidermayer wasn't a bad player.

Hockey IQ, skill, speed -- and more generally, just the way that he's all over the ice ala 'the rover'.

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Riprock wrote:That's the comparison that was mentioned recently by some of the media panel guys.

Sounds pretty fair actually. Although Karlsson has speed on Neidermayer.

Huh? Scott Niedermayer was one of the greatest skating defencemen in the history of the game. Karlsson is a great skater, but I certainly wouldn't say he's got a leg up on Niedermayer in that regard.

I must be remembering his game incorrectly.

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Riprock wrote:That's the comparison that was mentioned recently by some of the media panel guys.

Sounds pretty fair actually. Although Karlsson has speed on Neidermayer.

Huh? Scott Niedermayer was one of the greatest skating defencemen in the history of the game. Karlsson is a great skater, but I certainly wouldn't say he's got a leg up on Niedermayer in that regard.

Karlsson is a better skater than Niedermayer for sure... I've never seen anyone skate the way Karlsson does aside from maybe Paul Coffey.

I think people in Ottawa and around the league are seeing the next great defenseman in the making. The kid is smarter and faster than everyone on the ice 99% of the time. Wait until he actually hits his stride.

Hoags wrote:hfboards trying to knock Karlsson in any possible way is hilarious.

First it was plus/minus now that they can't use that, it's PK time.

I doubt he'll win the Norris but I'm sure he'll get nominated. He BETTER be nominated.

Usually with these awards you have to have been nominated at least once before until you finally win. Usually. Then if you're up against an incumbent who's nominated again you have to be about 3 times a good to get the award.

Hoags wrote:hfboards trying to knock Karlsson in any possible way is hilarious.

First it was plus/minus now that they can't use that, it's PK time.

I doubt he'll win the Norris but I'm sure he'll get nominated. He BETTER be nominated.

Part of the problem is that just what the Norris is awarded for is rather unclear: best overall defenseman, most productive defenseman, etc., etc. Really, what's needed are more categories for Dmen, like for forwards -- i.e., most productive, best overall, best defensive, etc.

People haggle over this one so much because the award itself is ambiguous in terms of what its recognizing.

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Riprock wrote:That's the comparison that was mentioned recently by some of the media panel guys.

Sounds pretty fair actually. Although Karlsson has speed on Neidermayer.

Huh? Scott Niedermayer was one of the greatest skating defencemen in the history of the game. Karlsson is a great skater, but I certainly wouldn't say he's got a leg up on Niedermayer in that regard.

He's talking specifically speed. Niedermayer certainly was no slouch, and perhaps I don't remember him in his prime, but I never *thought* speed was one of his biggest weapons, where with Karlsson is is very evident.

wprager wrote:

hemlock wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Riprock wrote:That's the comparison that was mentioned recently by some of the media panel guys.

Sounds pretty fair actually. Although Karlsson has speed on Neidermayer.

Huh? Scott Niedermayer was one of the greatest skating defencemen in the history of the game. Karlsson is a great skater, but I certainly wouldn't say he's got a leg up on Niedermayer in that regard.

He's talking specifically speed. Niedermayer certainly was no slouch, and perhaps I don't remember him in his prime, but I never *thought* speed was one of his biggest weapons, where with Karlsson is is very evident.

Niedermeyer was like a slight upgrade on Wade Redden when Redden was at his best. Nothing more.

Hoags wrote:hfboards trying to knock Karlsson in any possible way is hilarious.

First it was plus/minus now that they can't use that, it's PK time.

I doubt he'll win the Norris but I'm sure he'll get nominated. He BETTER be nominated.

Yeah, he will be. Doubt he wins though.

Hoags wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
Yeah, he will be. Doubt he wins though.

But if he gets nominated that opens the door to a victory down the road. Seems you need to be nominated at least once before you can win it.

That's what I said about 20 posts ago.

Oddly enough, I'd say Karlsson is better suited for the Hart than for the Norris.

tim1_2 wrote:Oddly enough, I'd say Karlsson is better suited for the Hart than for the Norris.

Makes sense.

Isn't a nomination a vote?

Big Ev wrote:People don't get nominated for these awards. They vote, there's a Top 3, then they announce the winner.

I think they mean "finalist" as in making the top 3 you mention.

shabbs wrote:

Big Ev wrote:People don't get nominated for these awards. They vote, there's a Top 3, then they announce the winner.

I think they mean "finalist" as in making the top 3 you mention.

Seriously, who gives a Diddle. Isn't this thread about trading away half the team and all our picks for the next decade for Zach "God of Hockey" Parise?

Yeah, which doesn't even make sense to begin with, considering we're just going to sign him as an UFA.

tim1_2 wrote:Yeah, which doesn't even make sense to begin with, considering we're just going to sign him as an UFA.

...and the "asking price" is an all-world dman.