You Call 'em

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    spader
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by spader on Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:51 pm

    Chirp calls for a 12 goal, 42 point outing from Gonchar this season: http://t.co/l06ceAn

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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by wprager on Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:00 pm

    spader wrote:Chirp calls for a 12 goal, 42 point outing from Gonchar this season: http://t.co/l06ceAn

    Funny. A friend, earlier today, was asking what I thought of Gonchar this season (for a hockey pool) and I said, despite all the potential issues the Sens will have scoring, I still expect him to get 40-45 points.

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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:03 pm

    spader wrote:Chirp calls for a 12 goal, 42 point outing from Gonchar this season: http://t.co/l06ceAn

    While an improvement, it's still much lower than I thought he'd be getting with us.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by spader on Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:12 pm

    SpezDispenser wrote:
    spader wrote:Chirp calls for a 12 goal, 42 point outing from Gonchar this season: http://t.co/l06ceAn

    While an improvement, it's still much lower than I thought he'd be getting with us.

    Much lower? What did you project?
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:15 pm

    spader wrote:
    SpezDispenser wrote:
    spader wrote:Chirp calls for a 12 goal, 42 point outing from Gonchar this season: http://t.co/l06ceAn

    While an improvement, it's still much lower than I thought he'd be getting with us.

    Much lower? What did you project?

    Bare minimum of 60 (even if it's extrapolated over 82 games). And really, why shouldn't I have?

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1957

    Yes, we don't have Crosby or Malkin, but Gonchar used to be able to create a ton of offense on his own, plus Spezza and Alfredsson were no slouches when we signed Gonchar.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by rooneypoo on Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:29 pm

    SpezDispenser wrote:
    spader wrote:
    SpezDispenser wrote:
    spader wrote:Chirp calls for a 12 goal, 42 point outing from Gonchar this season: http://t.co/l06ceAn

    While an improvement, it's still much lower than I thought he'd be getting with us.

    Much lower? What did you project?

    Bare minimum of 60 (even if it's extrapolated over 82 games). And really, why shouldn't I have?

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1957

    Yes, we don't have Crosby or Malkin, but Gonchar used to be able to create a ton of offense on his own, plus Spezza and Alfredsson were no slouches when we signed Gonchar.

    Laugh1

    Uh, don't you think PIT would have signed him to the same contract if they thought they could have got anything like 60 points out of him? C'mon dude.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:50 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Laugh1

    Uh, don't you think PIT would have signed him to the same contract if they thought they could have got anything like 60 points out of him? C'mon dude.

    Obviously not...because they didn't. I don't know how to argue that, the year he signed with us he put up 50 points in 62 games. I never was an A student in math but....um....

    The year before that 19 points in 26 games.

    The year before that 65.

    The year before that 60.

    At least I didn't provide a link so you could see why I thought that. Oh wait....
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by dennycrane on Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:00 pm

    3 BOLD Predictions:

    1. Tampa misses the playoffs
    2. Chicago wins the cup
    3. Crosby doesn't play more than 20 games
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:03 pm

    dennycrane wrote:3 BOLD Predictions:

    1. Tampa misses the playoffs
    2. Chicago wins the cup
    3. Crosby doesn't play more than 20 games

    2nd part of that is: if TB misses, who gets in, Montreal?
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by dennycrane on Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:24 pm

    Montreal, NJ, Carolina, Winnipeg will all have a look. I think the only 3 teams that seem sure to miss are NYI, Florida, and Ottawa.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:34 pm

    dennycrane wrote:Montreal, NJ, Carolina, Winnipeg will all have a look. I think the only 3 teams that seem sure to miss are NYI, Florida, and Ottawa.

    Your kind of covering your bases in a thread called You Call 'em. Sarcasm

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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:34 am

    SpezDispenser wrote:
    rooneypoo wrote:
    Laugh1

    Uh, don't you think PIT would have signed him to the same contract if they thought they could have got anything like 60 points out of him? C'mon dude.

    Obviously not...because they didn't. I don't know how to argue that, the year he signed with us he put up 50 points in 62 games. I never was an A student in math but....um....

    The year before that 19 points in 26 games.

    The year before that 65.

    The year before that 60.

    At least I didn't provide a link so you could see why I thought that. Oh wait....

    Dude, if you thought Gonchar was putting up 60+ points last year, you were out to lunch / the mayor of Homerville. With his age, he's pretty much guaranteed to miss 10+ games a season at this point. 45-50 points in 65-70 games would have been a very good season from him for us, and about the best we could have expected.

    And the point I was making was, if Gonchar was still Norris-calibre material, i.e., putting up 60+ points a year, why the hell wouldn't PIT -- who saw him play for them for 5 years -- want to bring that back, instead of giving that same money to Paul Martin? The fact that PIT, a recent Stanley Cup winner, walked away him told me everything I needed to know in terms of what to expect.

    We should be elated if Gonchar ever puts up 50 points again. I'm not sure I see him topping 40-45 again, really -- durability issues + no Crosby & Malkin on the Sens. But expecting 60+ points "as a bare minimum" is asinine.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:02 am

    rooneypoo wrote:
    SpezDispenser wrote:
    rooneypoo wrote:
    Laugh1

    Uh, don't you think PIT would have signed him to the same contract if they thought they could have got anything like 60 points out of him? C'mon dude.

    Obviously not...because they didn't. I don't know how to argue that, the year he signed with us he put up 50 points in 62 games. I never was an A student in math but....um....

    The year before that 19 points in 26 games.

    The year before that 65.

    The year before that 60.

    At least I didn't provide a link so you could see why I thought that. Oh wait....

    Dude, if you thought Gonchar was putting up 60+ points last year, you were out to lunch / the mayor of Homerville. With his age, he's pretty much guaranteed to miss 10+ games a season at this point. 45-50 points in 65-70 games would have been a very good season from him for us, and about the best we could have expected.

    And the point I was making was, if Gonchar was still Norris-calibre material, i.e., putting up 60+ points a year, why the hell wouldn't PIT -- who saw him play for them for 5 years -- want to bring that back, instead of giving that same money to Paul Martin? The fact that PIT, a recent Stanley Cup winner, walked away him told me everything I needed to know in terms of what to expect.

    We should be elated if Gonchar ever puts up 50 points again. I'm not sure I see him topping 40-45 again, really -- durability issues + no Crosby & Malkin on the Sens. But expecting 60+ points "as a bare minimum" is asinine.

    I agree with poo. The best I had hoped for out of the Gonch was 50 pts, but I think realisitc expectations peg him more around 35-40 pts IF he stays relatively healthy.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by Ev on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:20 am

    rooneypoo wrote:
    SpezDispenser wrote:
    rooneypoo wrote:
    Laugh1

    Uh, don't you think PIT would have signed him to the same contract if they thought they could have got anything like 60 points out of him? C'mon dude.

    Obviously not...because they didn't. I don't know how to argue that, the year he signed with us he put up 50 points in 62 games. I never was an A student in math but....um....

    The year before that 19 points in 26 games.

    The year before that 65.

    The year before that 60.

    At least I didn't provide a link so you could see why I thought that. Oh wait....

    Dude, if you thought Gonchar was putting up 60+ points last year, you were out to lunch / the mayor of Homerville. With his age, he's pretty much guaranteed to miss 10+ games a season at this point. 45-50 points in 65-70 games would have been a very good season from him for us, and about the best we could have expected.

    And the point I was making was, if Gonchar was still Norris-calibre material, i.e., putting up 60+ points a year, why the hell wouldn't PIT -- who saw him play for them for 5 years -- want to bring that back, instead of giving that same money to Paul Martin? The fact that PIT, a recent Stanley Cup winner, walked away him told me everything I needed to know in terms of what to expect.

    We should be elated if Gonchar ever puts up 50 points again. I'm not sure I see him topping 40-45 again, really -- durability issues + no Crosby & Malkin on the Sens. But expecting 60+ points "as a bare minimum" is asinine.

    Pittsburgh actually wanted to re-sign him and offered him the same amount of money. They just wanted to sign him for 2 years, not 3. That's why they walked away.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:32 am

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Dude, if you thought Gonchar was putting up 60+ points last year, you were out to lunch / the mayor of Homerville. With his age, he's pretty much guaranteed to miss 10+ games a season at this point. 45-50 points in 65-70 games would have been a very good season from him for us, and about the best we could have expected.

    And the point I was making was, if Gonchar was still Norris-calibre material, i.e., putting up 60+ points a year, why the hell wouldn't PIT -- who saw him play for them for 5 years -- want to bring that back, instead of giving that same money to Paul Martin? The fact that PIT, a recent Stanley Cup winner, walked away him told me everything I needed to know in terms of what to expect.

    We should be elated if Gonchar ever puts up 50 points again. I'm not sure I see him topping 40-45 again, really -- durability issues + no Crosby & Malkin on the Sens. But expecting 60+ points "as a bare minimum" is asinine.

    The stats don't lie, there was no reason to think he couldn't have matched what he did in Pittsburgh.

    His pace the year we signed him was ~65 points, same the year before, and the year before and the year before.

    I also said, and I quote, "even if it was extrapolated over 82 games". So even if he didn't hit the 60 plateau, I expected the numbers to be there if you extrapolated them.

    And don't be too quick in dismissing Pittsburgh's interest in Gonchar, they wanted him badly, but they couldn't/wouldn't commit to the 3rd year.

    Basically what I'm saying is: it's nothing more than your opinion that he wouldn't hit 60 points in Ottawa (discounting what we know now of course), the numbers were there to completely back up a 60 point (or the equivalent) season in Ottawa.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:45 am

    SpezDispenser wrote:
    rooneypoo wrote:
    Dude, if you thought Gonchar was putting up 60+ points last year, you were out to lunch / the mayor of Homerville. With his age, he's pretty much guaranteed to miss 10+ games a season at this point. 45-50 points in 65-70 games would have been a very good season from him for us, and about the best we could have expected.

    And the point I was making was, if Gonchar was still Norris-calibre material, i.e., putting up 60+ points a year, why the hell wouldn't PIT -- who saw him play for them for 5 years -- want to bring that back, instead of giving that same money to Paul Martin? The fact that PIT, a recent Stanley Cup winner, walked away him told me everything I needed to know in terms of what to expect.

    We should be elated if Gonchar ever puts up 50 points again. I'm not sure I see him topping 40-45 again, really -- durability issues + no Crosby & Malkin on the Sens. But expecting 60+ points "as a bare minimum" is asinine.

    The stats don't lie, there was no reason to think he couldn't have matched what he did in Pittsburgh.

    His pace the year we signed him was ~65 points, same the year before, and the year before and the year before.

    I also said, and I quote, "even if it was extrapolated over 82 games". So even if he didn't hit the 60 plateau, I expected the numbers to be there if you extrapolated them.

    And don't be too quick in dismissing Pittsburgh's interest in Gonchar, they wanted him badly, but they couldn't/wouldn't commit to the 3rd year.

    Basically what I'm saying is: it's nothing more than your opinion that he wouldn't hit 60 points in Ottawa (discounting what we know now of course), the numbers were there to completely back up a 60 point (or the equivalent) season in Ottawa.

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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:47 am

    Okay then, at least I took the time to explain to you why I felt he could hit 60 points, I guess you either don't care, or agree with me.
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    Re: You Call 'em

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:04 am

    SpezDispenser wrote:Okay then, at least I took the time to explain to you why I felt he could hit 60 points, I guess you either don't care, or agree with me.

    I happen to think that having Crosby and Malkin on the PP with you, for every shift, helps to pad your offensive stats.

    No one in their right mind should have expected Gonchar to score at the same pace for us, because we just don't have those big guns. At best, he can put up 45-50 points for us, which is nothing to sneeze at and something we desperately need. But 60+ point expectations needed to be laid aside at the moment of signing. Just like 70+ point expectations for Kovalev were totally unrealistic.

    This is why so many OTT fans are disappointed in their team and their players. They have super unrealistic expectations. Take Butler and Filatov, for instance. If each of those guys has a 15-20 goal / 40-50 point season this year, that should be viewed as a huge step forward. But, if we're lucky and something like that happens, will most people see it that way? I doubt it.


    Last edited by rooneypoo on Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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