I need a new TV, HELP!

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    Hoags
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by Hoags on Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:24 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Hoags wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:3D TVs tend to have fantastic regular picture quality.

    Why pay for 3D, when you can get a bigger 2D-only set for the same price ?

    Within a few years they'll probably have glasses-free 3D, but so far from what I am reading it's not taking off at all. It's just a ploy to drive up TV prices.

    Nothing to do with driving prices up; everything to do with driving sales. You buy a TV now and it's still chugging along 15 years later. That was with CRT. Newer stuff can last even longer (the LEDs use much less energy and heat up less, so last longer).

    True it's about driving sales which typically means trying to milk early adopters. Observe how now they're coming out with a universal standard for glasses (vs. manufacturer specific).

    By the way didn't mean to crap on your link to Dell's site, I actually found it helpful in seeing what's out there and at what price since I am TV shopping as well.

    3D TV is just a pet peeve of mine Dammit!

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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by Riprock on Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:31 pm

    In this case I don't think you're buying the TV for the 3D, but the 3D for the TV.

    If you can get a really good LED/LCD TV and it just so happens to be 3D ready, why not?

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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by Hoags on Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:39 pm

    Dash wrote:In this case I don't think you're buying the TV for the 3D, but the 3D for the TV.

    If you can get a really good LED/LCD TV and it just so happens to be 3D ready, why not?

    I have no problem doing that but 3D and LED cost extra. Edge-lit LEDs are the same or worse than normal LCD panels from what I hear, you need the good backlit LED TVs but those are $1000+. They market LED as better than LCD which isn't true and it's technically almost the same technology.

    The best advice I am seeing is get the biggest TV you can afford (and fit in the room of course, respecting viewing distance etc).

    You can get a 50" 1080p plasma for $745:

    http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/lg-electronics-lg-50-1080p-plasma-hdtv-50pv450-50pv450/10166925.aspx?path=2c7ae1052a5d9567aee87f4b74e232c5en02

    This will sounds weird but I have an older 32" LCD that's about 42" wide, if I get a 42" TV it won't seem like much of an upgrade. I've stood and stared at 42" TVs at Best Buy and I don't get that "big screen feeling"

    Now 50 inches and up ??? Now we're talking (with about 9 feet viewing distance).

    Of course I am shopping for a home theatre TV, if I was looking for a TV for the bedroom it'd be different.
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by shabbs on Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:52 pm

    Shabbs wants this: TC-P65VT30

    https://panasonic.ca/english/audiovideo/plasma/tcp55_65vt30.asp

    65" of PLASMA LOVE.

    Yes.
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by wprager on Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:16 pm

    Hoags wrote:
    Dash wrote:In this case I don't think you're buying the TV for the 3D, but the 3D for the TV.

    If you can get a really good LED/LCD TV and it just so happens to be 3D ready, why not?

    I have no problem doing that but 3D and LED cost extra. Edge-lit LEDs are the same or worse than normal LCD panels from what I hear, you need the good backlit LED TVs but those are $1000+. They market LED as better than LCD which isn't true and it's technically almost the same technology.

    The best advice I am seeing is get the biggest TV you can afford (and fit in the room of course, respecting viewing distance etc).

    You can get a 50" 1080p plasma for $745:

    http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/lg-electronics-lg-50-1080p-plasma-hdtv-50pv450-50pv450/10166925.aspx?path=2c7ae1052a5d9567aee87f4b74e232c5en02

    This will sounds weird but I have an older 32" LCD that's about 42" wide, if I get a 42" TV it won't seem like much of an upgrade. I've stood and stared at 42" TVs at Best Buy and I don't get that "big screen feeling"

    Now 50 inches and up ??? Now we're talking (with about 9 feet viewing distance).

    Of course I am shopping for a home theatre TV, if I was looking for a TV for the bedroom it'd be different.

    A 32" TV *cannot* be 42" wide, unless you are talking about side speakers. The "big feeling" will come from watching it at the correct angle (often, in a store, you don't get that). Also, a decent stereo setup will make your screen "feel" much bigger.

    That 50" plasma may not actually be 1080 native resolution.

    I sit about 7' away from my 57" screen; my kids sit closer. The old guidelines about viewing distance have gone out the window with HD because the pixel width is a lot smaller now. You don't want to sit close enough to be able to see the pixels -- that's why there are recommended viewing distances.

    LED vs. LCD: true, the picture may not be better (I read a while back that there are just a handful of manufacturers of LCD panels anyway -- both LCD and LED TVs use LCD panels). What you do get -- and this is not debatable -- is a much slimmer profile. If you want to hang it on a wall (not mounted with a swing out arm -- really hanging, like a picture) then you say "No" to plasma and LCD and aim for LED (or O-LED, if you have bagsfull of money).


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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by Hoags on Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:24 pm

    wprager wrote:
    A 32" TV *cannot* be 42" wide, unless you are talking about side speakers. The "big feeling" will come from watching it at the correct angle (often, in a store, you don't get that). Also, a decent stereo setup will make your screen "feel" much bigger.

    That 50" plasma may not actually be 1080 native resolution.

    I sit about 7' away from my 57" screen; my kids sit closer. The old guidelines about viewing distance have gone out the window with HD because the pixel width is a lot smaller now. You don't want to sit close enough to be able to see the pixels -- that's why there are recommended viewing distances.

    LED vs. LCD: true, the picture may not be better (I read a while back that there are just a handful of manufacturers of LCD panels anyway -- both LCD and LED TVs use LCD panels). What you do get -- and this is not debatable -- is a much slimmer profile. If you want to hang it on a wall (not mounted with a swing out arm -- really hanging, like a picture) then you say "No" to plasma and LCD and aim for LED (or O-LED, if you have bagsfull of money).

    Yes I am including the side speakers in my measurement. It's a silly way for me to visualize how a 42" TV would look in my basement.

    From the specs:
    Native Resolution: 1920 x 1080
    1080p Display Method: Native
    Moving Picture Resolution: 1080 Lines

    Even the moving picture resolution is 1080, some lower end plasmas lower the resolution during scenes of high movement. The only negative is most likely little to no glare protection. I haven't researched this model yet.

    I am following what I believe are current guidelines. If you sit too close, you see the pixels. This is worse for SD content and I'll probably not want too big a TV as most content is SD still.

    I don't really care about slimmer profile, typical LCD/Plasma TVs are flat enough for me, and it's certainly not worth the price premium for a LED TV.
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:31 pm

    After reading all this maybe you will realize that no one really ever needs a new TV.
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by Hoags on Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:33 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:After reading all this maybe you will realize that no one really ever needs a new TV.

    Need ? no

    Want ? yes

    Life is boring if you only buy what you need Smile
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by wprager on Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:02 pm

    Viewing distance calculator: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

    They measure "max" viewing distances based on different recommendations (THX, SMPTE and visual acuity). For THX and SMPTE (not sure what that is) they probably do mean max (or optimum), but for the visual acuity I bet they really mean *MIN* recommended distance, as in anything smaller than that and your eye *will* see the pixels.

    For a 50" set the recommended viewing distances are 5.6' for THX, 6.5' for visual acuity, and 6.8' for SMPTE.

    There are other calculators -- it's just the first link in the search results. The eye's acuity can be expressed (in degrees) for both horizontal and vertical acuity, so a better calculator should take both the vertical (1080) and horizontal (1024) resolutions, and then take the biggest min distance.

    In any case, 9 feet is too far.


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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:10 pm

    Hoags wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:After reading all this maybe you will realize that no one really ever needs a new TV.

    Need ? no

    Want ? yes

    Life is boring if you only buy what you need Smile
    hhuuummm I need a new TV. My Gf and I split and she kept the old one... whether i need a 50" is another matter. but yes I need a new TV.
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:25 am

    Get the biggest TV you can. No one ever complains about their TV being too big. The bigger the better...go small, and you'll regret it.
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by The Silfer Server on Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:14 am

    tim1_2 wrote:Get the biggest TV you can. No one ever complains about their TV being too big. The bigger the better...go small, and you'll regret it.

    I disagree. You can have too big a TV, both aesthetically, and if you are too close to a big TV, it'll reduce optimum quality. I have a 37 incher for my small apartment, and it's perfect, and beautiful.

    But a tip you (Flo) should consider is getting one with at least 2 HDMI ports. You'll want one for the cable box, and one for a Blu-Ray player possibly, so having a 3rd for something random (PS3/XBOX/HD Video Camera/etc) would be nice.
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by ddt on Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:41 am

    wprager wrote:Viewing distance calculator: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

    They measure "max" viewing distances based on different recommendations (THX, SMPTE and visual acuity). For THX and SMPTE (not sure what that is) they probably do mean max (or optimum), but for the visual acuity I bet they really mean *MIN* recommended distance, as in anything smaller than that and your eye *will* see the pixels.

    For a 50" set the recommended viewing distances are 5.6' for THX, 6.5' for visual acuity, and 6.8' for SMPTE.

    There are other calculators -- it's just the first link in the search results. The eye's acuity can be expressed (in degrees) for both horizontal and vertical acuity, so a better calculator should take both the vertical (1080) and horizontal (1024) resolutions, and then take the biggest min distance.

    In any case, 9 feet is too far.

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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by wprager on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:02 am

    The TV I just helped my parents get a couple of weeks ago is the deal of the day at Dell:
    http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Video_Conferencing/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A5223237

    LG 42PT350. It's a 42" plasma and not true 1080p (native resolution is 768). Since most if not all sports are broadcast at 720p, that won't be an issue. Price is about $100 less than my folks just paid -- $390, down from $600.


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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by wprager on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:05 am

    The Silfer Server wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Get the biggest TV you can. No one ever complains about their TV being too big. The bigger the better...go small, and you'll regret it.

    I disagree. You can have too big a TV, both aesthetically, and if you are too close to a big TV, it'll reduce optimum quality. I have a 37 incher for my small apartment, and it's perfect, and beautiful.

    But a tip you (Flo) should consider is getting one with at least 2 HDMI ports. You'll want one for the cable box, and one for a Blu-Ray player possibly, so having a 3rd for something random (PS3/XBOX/HD Video Camera/etc) would be nice.

    Absolutely on the HDMI (or any inputs, for that matter). My TV only has one HDMI port so the PS3 gets that. The PVR uses the components, which isn't bad, but that's an awful lot of cables (5, including the audio) and the audio is not digital.


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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:14 am

    wprager wrote:
    But a tip you (Flo) should consider is getting one with at least 2 HDMI ports. You'll want one for the cable box, and one for a Blu-Ray player possibly, so having a 3rd for something random (PS3/XBOX/HD Video Camera/etc) would be nice.

    Absolutely on the HDMI (or any inputs, for that matter). My TV only has one HDMI port so the PS3 gets that. The PVR uses the components, which isn't bad, but that's an awful lot of cables (5, including the audio) and the audio is not digital. [/quote]

    There are many ways around a lack of HDMI inputs.

    Most home theatres these days have a receiver at their core which will provide plenty of inputs. Or you can get one of these for $40: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=4.

    I have one of them. It gives you 4 HDMI inputs. Yes, it adds one more remote control to your stack, but if you're not using a Logitech Harmony remote control, you're a sucker anyways Smile. Seriously, get a Harmoy, it makes your TV/movie viewing a lot more seamlessmy wife loves the thing because it means she doesn't have to juggle 5+ remotes.
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by Hoags on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:25 am

    wprager wrote:
    LG 42PT350. It's a 42" plasma and not true 1080p (native resolution is 768). Since most if not all sports are broadcast at 720p, that won't be an issue. Price is about $100 less than my folks just paid -- $390, down from $600.


    edit: Damn that's a good price, even better if they have free shipping, gotta that environmental fee though Sad

    I am so tempted to save a few hundred and just get a 720p set but I got a blu-ray player. More importantly I can see the difference in store between a 1080p set and a 720p set. I'd have to try it at a better viewing distance though.

    I just figure it's 2011, might as well get a 1080p set.


    Last edited by Hoags on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: I need a new TV, HELP!

    Post by shabbs on Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:27 am

    Or you could get an HDMI switching receiver... my TV has one HDMI in as well but I have a host of HDMI devices (PVR, HD DVD, Blu-ray, PlayBook) via my receiver.

    But yeah, more HDMI in, the better. Most TVs these days will have three. My Panny Plasma has two on the back and one on the side.

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