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General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

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LeCaptain


All-Star
All-Star
Meh, he is losing fans' appreciation by the day by doing this, regardless of who's right or wrong. Big picture with everything considered, all this fuss for 200,000 per year ? Not worth it.

EDIT: I hope he's in better shape than last september.

wprager


Administrator
Administrator
Who is losing fans' appreciation? Doughty or Lombardi?

$6.8M is a heck of a deal for a guy coming off his ELC. Chara had 7 years (plus the lockout year) under his, umm, suspenders before he got $7M. This kid wants that much now after 3? And he didn't exactly light it up in his contract year. If he was being honest with himself he would realize that he has *earned* a 2 year deal at around $3.5M to prove that last year was the anomaly, not the one before, and that he is a 60-point defenseman and not a 40 point one. Karlsson had better numbers on a horrible team, earning $1.2M with bonuses piled on top. How does Doughty think he deserves to be paid the same as the best defenseman in the league?

Now, the other side of this is perhaps Lombardi is reluctant to give Doughty a contract with a higher cap hit than Kopitar. If that's the case, then he's a bit narrow in his thinking. You should never give a promise (written or otherwise) to a player saying he'll be the highest paid on the team. With the cap growing it's just not possible to guarantee that. Second, it simply should not be done because things change.

Bottom line, for me, at least, both sides have screwed this up very badly.

LeCaptain


All-Star
All-Star
Doughty of course, don't think anyone cares about Lombardi's shape in September Laugh1

NEELY


Mod
Mod
If Doughty ever wanted a trade I hope Murray would throw everything he could for him. Rundblad + a 1st + Michalek.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
La Femme wrote:Meh, he is losing fans' appreciation by the day by doing this, regardless of who's right or wrong. Big picture with everything considered, all this fuss for 200,000 per year ? Not worth it.

EDIT: I hope he's in better shape than last september.

It can't be over 200K, there's more to it.

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Damn HFBoards is one tough cookie. I keep making accounts from different IP addresses, but they catch me every time!

spader

spader
All-Star
All-Star
Big Ev wrote:Damn HFBoards is one tough cookie. I keep making accounts from different IP addresses, but they catch me every time!

How? Do you keep referring to "facts"? Sarcasm

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran
wprager wrote:Who is losing fans' appreciation? Doughty or Lombardi?

$6.8M is a heck of a deal for a guy coming off his ELC. Chara had 7 years (plus the lockout year) under his, umm, suspenders before he got $7M. This kid wants that much now after 3? And he didn't exactly light it up in his contract year. If he was being honest with himself he would realize that he has *earned* a 2 year deal at around $3.5M to prove that last year was the anomaly, not the one before, and that he is a 60-point defenseman and not a 40 point one. Karlsson had better numbers on a horrible team, earning $1.2M with bonuses piled on top. How does Doughty think he deserves to be paid the same as the best defenseman in the league?

Now, the other side of this is perhaps Lombardi is reluctant to give Doughty a contract with a higher cap hit than Kopitar. If that's the case, then he's a bit narrow in his thinking. You should never give a promise (written or otherwise) to a player saying he'll be the highest paid on the team. With the cap growing it's just not possible to guarantee that. Second, it simply should not be done because things change.

Bottom line, for me, at least, both sides have screwed this up very badly.

I really believe the owners will try to get this changed in the next CBA... limiting the percentage increase these young players get coming out of the ELC. He turned down 6.8M -- that's just greedy...

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
La Femme wrote:Doughty of course, don't think anyone cares about Lombardi's shape in September Laugh1

Didn't see the "Edit" in time.

Mrs. Lombardi might care, though.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
NEELY wrote:If Doughty ever wanted a trade I hope Murray would throw everything he could for him. Rundblad + a 1st + Michalek.

A 40-point D-man with a $7M cap-hit for Rundblad + Michalek + 1st? You sure? He's got three years under his belt, two of them not spectacular.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

Riprock

Riprock
All-Star
All-Star
Am I the only one that believes in working with what we got? Rundblad could be as good or better than Doughty, so we make that trade? And trading a 1st round pick when your team should be a bottom 10 team is silly.

NEELY


Mod
Mod
Dash wrote:Am I the only one that believes in working with what we got? Rundblad could be as good or better than Doughty, so we make that trade? And trading a 1st round pick when your team should be a bottom 10 team is silly.


That's exactly what people should be doing but that being said, Doughty may very well be the franchise player that a team needs to be a contender for over a decade.

What I said is probably too much but that's probably what it would take to get him... he would also be going East if he was traded.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
Dash wrote:Am I the only one that believes in working with what we got? Rundblad could be as good or better than Doughty, so we make that trade? And trading a 1st round pick when your team should be a bottom 10 team is silly.


The road we're on literally couldn't be brighter - unless Drew Doughty's on the team lol. That's just one of the handful of guys that if he comes available and you have a shot, you go for it IMO. Norris nominee at such a young age, can play both ends of the rink...I wouldn't be thrilled to give up 3 big pieces, but having him on the team in future would be quite interesting to see.

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
SpezDispenser wrote:
Dash wrote:Am I the only one that believes in working with what we got? Rundblad could be as good or better than Doughty, so we make that trade? And trading a 1st round pick when your team should be a bottom 10 team is silly.


The road we're on literally couldn't be brighter - unless Drew Doughty's on the team lol. That's just one of the handful of guys that if he comes available and you have a shot, you go for it IMO. Norris nominee at such a young age, can play both ends of the rink...I wouldn't be thrilled to give up 3 big pieces, but having him on the team in future would be quite interesting to see.

Let's all calm down. Two years ago, the Sens could have dealt Rundblad and their 1st and Michalek (maybe not) for someone like Doughty because at that point Rundblad was just a top-10 pick of another GM who had not made any waves, and we wouldn't think our 1st would be a possible lottery pick. Things have changed. Rundblad has achieved very impressive things in the SEL -- it's not the NHL, we all know that, however the levels he reached have far surpassed those of Doughty. Third in the league in scoring, for crying out loud. Norris nominee? Hell, Rundblad *won* the SEL's equivalent of the Norris. NEELY, you're very fond of saying that in the SEL you play against men. It's not as high a calibre as the NHL, for sure, but I'd wager it's better than the KHL and certainly better than the AHL.

Anyhow, all that to say that that would be way too much to give up for an as-yet unproven player. He's got three years and, like I said before, two of them were nothing to write home about, at least not if your salary was at Chara's level.

And, frankly, I'm a little concerned about his character because of this. Well, maybe not his character, but certainly his motivation. It's not a big red flag, but it's still a red flag.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
1.The SEL's Norris and the NHL's Norris mean two completely different things. Rundblad has potential, but Doughty's got potential to go with actually doing it in the NHL

2.Everyone else around Doughty is getting paid, including Tavares who hasn't even approached the feats that Doughty has. He got 5.5 X 6, why wouldn't Doughty be worth more? And why wouldn't he hold out to get it?

LA's always been frugal and now look at the situation they're in. They have zero choice but to head back to the table and hammer it out. As I said before, if he comes back with a 7 million X 10 years, the Kings should thank their lucky stars and sign him immediately.

Hoags

Hoags
All-Star
All-Star
I'm not sure if Doughty's issue is with the amount or the term.

He doesn't want to give up UFA years, LA wants to lock him up long term on a cap hit which won't be much in a few years time. $6.8M AAV cap hit will be (relative) peanuts in a few years' time the way things are going.

If they settle it will be on a short term contract as I'm sure DD could get a lot more if he wins the Norris in the next few years (which is certainly possible if not likely the way he is going).

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Yeah a 40-point d-man. That's aaaaaallll he is. Not the best young d-man in the world who can pot 60+ points while playing great hockey in his own zone and leading the team both on and off the ice. Franchise d-man. Could be a generational type d-man.

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. If you are merely looking at his stats to judge him, then you're not judging him correctly and you've never seen him play. I'd probably trade KARLSSON + 1st + Michalek to get him. He's that much of a beast.

To say "oh he's only had 1 good year" is foolish. He's 21 years old.

If you honestly think Rundblad has achieved more than Doughty then I think you really need to wake up and smell the coffee. SEL is not the NHL, please. Doughty already has World Junior gold, OLYMPIC gold, Norris nominee, drafted 2nd overall and played right away. The Franchise.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
Hoags wrote:I'm not sure if Doughty's issue is with the amount or the term.

He doesn't want to give up UFA years, LA wants to lock him up long term on a cap hit which won't be much in a few years time. $6.8M AAV cap hit will be (relative) peanuts in a few years' time the way things are going.

If they settle it will be on a short term contract as I'm sure DD could get a lot more if he wins the Norris in the next few years (which is certainly possible if not likely the way he is going).

I think that's what it is. Sounds like Lombardi doesn't want to do a similar contract to Stamkos - and I agree, in 5 years it becomes an absolute free for all and your position is weakened considerably by 29 other teams waving 7.5+ on a long term deal.

If Doughty is taking a hard line at 5 years, 7 per year, then it's not worth it to LA to sign it right now - but how the hell can they avoid it. This is some of the issue with the 2nd contract for anyone, but when it comes to the best of the best, it gets even harder.

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