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Who will get the C in Ottawa?

38% 38% [ 6 ]
50% 50% [ 8 ]
6% 6% [ 1 ]
6% 6% [ 1 ]
0% 0% [ 0 ]

Total Votes : 16

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2012 NHL Draft

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by NEELY on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:25 pm

Riprock wrote:
tim1_2 wrote:
Riprock wrote:
Fact is, they will get those players eventually. Edmonton is slowly becoming a place for FA's to play - lots of $$$ and young stars.

What are you basing this on? The fact that they are no more competitive than they were three years ago? What FAs have they landed that make you think they are "becoming a place for FAs to play"?????

Big Ev wrote:
No they won't. Edmonton is a Dung of a city. No free agent will go there just because they have some flashy kids.

@mirtle Tambellini said Oilers getting more interest from free agents now they have stars like Hall and Eberle.

Sarcasm

Is he selling swamp land too?

Until they actually land a big name I'm going with the assumption they need to build something from within.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:33 pm

Evan, who said "big names"?

And, this is something he just said - post-Smyth and Belanger. And actually, those are character signings. And Smyth wasn't a FA signing. Nice try though.

Hey NEELY, they are building from within - it's called drafting - but when they do that, you guys still Dung on them.

They've been trying to add big names from FA, remember Vanek? That didn't work out (probably best for them). They tried to get Heatley (probably best for us).

They've had bad PR from douchebag Pronger.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:37 pm

And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:39 pm

Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

Surely you're not comparing Yakupov to Crosby?

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:43 pm

It's the same concept - trading the #1 pick for the best player available instead of taking hm and worrying about other needs later some other way.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Ev on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:47 pm

Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

I said the Oilers should draft Yakupov. But this draft is pretty weak.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:47 pm

Riprock wrote:It's the same concept - trading the #1 pick for the best player available instead of taking hm and worrying about other needs later some other way.

What if your scouts don't consider the consensus #1 to be the best player available?

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by NEELY on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:49 pm

Riprock wrote:Evan, who said "big names"?

And, this is something he just said - post-Smyth and Belanger. And actually, those are character signings. And Smyth wasn't a FA signing. Nice try though.

Hey NEELY, they are building from within - it's called drafting - but when they do that, you guys still Dung on them.

They've been trying to add big names from FA, remember Vanek? That didn't work out (probably best for them). They tried to get Heatley (probably best for us).

They've had bad PR from douchebag Pronger.

They're drafting? It's pretty easy to draft 1st overall each year. If they trade this 1st round pick and get some real help (present and future) on the backend or in goal then I will buy what they are selling. As of right now they are just putting together a ton of talent that has no chance in hell of winning.

Edmonton isn't close (as of right now) from getting over the giant hump that's the worst team in the NHL. They need more then just talented forwards who can put up some numbers. They need to trade that 1st round pick to either Montreal or NYI.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by NEELY on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:51 pm

Riprock wrote:It's the same concept - trading the #1 pick for the best player available instead of taking hm and worrying about other needs later some other way.

It is to a point. At some point in time you build a team, no just throw Dung against a wall and hope it sticks.

Eberle (legit NHL star in the making), RNH (same), and Hall are 3 guy you can build an entire offense around. They need help getting the puck from point A to point B and that starts with a save and then moves on to getting the puck up ice from your D. Yakapov isn't going to help with any of that. He might not even be as good as either of those 3, ever.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by rooneypoo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:40 pm

Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

The only answer that everyone has for you is, "drafting high isn't the only thing that goes into building a winner." It's one, equally important component in a much larger, much more complicated, much more varieted strategy. No one, positively no one, is saying that building from within or drafting isn't important; rather, they're objecting to the idea that drafting high is the one and only way to build a winner and/or the KEY to building a winner.

But I guess it's easier to set yourself up against a strawman argument, right?

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Flo The Action on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 pm

yeah I agree. It's great if Edmonton has amazing forwards but it ain't gonna fill the gaps on the back end. they might be able to work a few trades. I could see them trying to land Bernier from LA or even wait and see what happens with Luongo/schneider in the playoffs. if Vancouver falls early during the playoffs Luongo might become available for a price less then you'd think due to the length of his contract.

as for their top pick well I totally agree that MTL sounds the perfect trade partner. they'd get whatever they think will be the best D-man available and probably land Nathan Beaulieu also in that deal(no way they deal PK, sorry Neely). Montreal gets the thing they need to get over their terrible season a future star. something they haven't had since... Roy or Damphouse?

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Flo The Action on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:44 pm

Amnesia021 wrote:not sure if you've seen this yet, but pretty funny... ultimate disappointment Smile

I love how you can hear the girl say "Fail for Nail" just before they reveal the Oilers won. totally jinxed it.

just goes to show you can't fail and expect to win the best pick.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:31 pm

rooneypoo wrote:
Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

The only answer that everyone has for you is, "drafting high isn't the only thing that goes into building a winner." It's one, equally important component in a much larger, much more complicated, much more varieted strategy. No one, positively no one, is saying that building from within or drafting isn't important; rather, they're objecting to the idea that drafting high is the one and only way to build a winner and/or the KEY to building a winner.

But I guess it's easier to set yourself up against a strawman argument, right?

Why did you even come here and reply to me? And why would you respond to one thing I said and reply out of context to it?

Where's this so called straw man fallacy?

Again you seem to always come back to everything I say with "high draft picks aren't the solution" lol. I have to laugh at this point because no matter what I saw, that is your answer.

Someone says Edmonton needs to build from within. What does that actually entail if not drafting?

Someone says they need to address defence and goaltending - how do you do that if a) you can't sign a FA, b) you don't want to trade one valuable piece at one position for another?

As I said, everyone seems to have the answer - the solution to Edmonton's problem, but they are't in charge. Speculate all you want, but you and I are no different. You honestly think anyone is going to trade 2 5th overall picks for a 1st?

Do you really think Edmonton is not going to draft the #1 overall player? Of course they will, if they keep the pick.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by shabbs on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:32 pm

Here we go...

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:32 pm

Seriously Rooney, I have no idea why you keep bringing up drafting high. Edmonton has the #1 Cussing pick dude. What the Diddle do you want them to do? Regardless, what you WANT them to do is your opinion and they will do whatever the Diddle they want.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:33 pm

shabbs wrote:Here we go...

Well dude, what do you want me to do? We are here talking about what Edmonton should do and it turns into another Rooney Dung show about how high drafting isn't the only answer. What the Diddle does that have to do with the fact Edmonton has and had the #1 pick for the past 3 seasons?

Rooney just comes in out of nowhere and takes my comments out of context and then turns it into the same attack, every time.



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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:39 pm

NEELY wrote:
Riprock wrote:Evan, who said "big names"?

And, this is something he just said - post-Smyth and Belanger. And actually, those are character signings. And Smyth wasn't a FA signing. Nice try though.

Hey NEELY, they are building from within - it's called drafting - but when they do that, you guys still Dung on them.

They've been trying to add big names from FA, remember Vanek? That didn't work out (probably best for them). They tried to get Heatley (probably best for us).

They've had bad PR from douchebag Pronger.

They're drafting? It's pretty easy to draft 1st overall each year. If they trade this 1st round pick and get some real help (present and future) on the backend or in goal then I will buy what they are selling. As of right now they are just putting together a ton of talent that has no chance in hell of winning.

Edmonton isn't close (as of right now) from getting over the giant hump that's the worst team in the NHL. They need more then just talented forwards who can put up some numbers. They need to trade that 1st round pick to either Montreal or NYI.

It's not that easy to draft #1 - case in point your exact criticism of their team. For the past 3 years they have been handed the best player in the draft that happens to be a forward. They would be dumb not to take them. They could trade one of them, but you just end up adding to one area and subtracting from another. They'd be much better adding without subtracting. They will look at their other picks for those needs, as well as the free agency market.

Not to mention the backlash trading the #1 pick would have. Edmonton fans are pretty passionate and I can imagine how even the Sens fans would react to the Sens trading the #1 pick, even the #5 pick.

I honestly can't see any team being dumb enough to pay what Edmonton would want in exchange for the pick, and considering even yourself says the draft is a crap shoot because you never know how the player will turn out, why would they gamble that?


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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by rooneypoo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:55 pm

Riprock wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

The only answer that everyone has for you is, "drafting high isn't the only thing that goes into building a winner." It's one, equally important component in a much larger, much more complicated, much more variated strategy. No one, positively no one, is saying that building from within or drafting isn't important; rather, they're objecting to the idea that drafting high is the one and only way to build a winner and/or the KEY to building a winner.

But I guess it's easier to set yourself up against a strawman argument, right?

Why did you even come here and reply to me? And why would you respond to one thing I said and reply out of context to it?

Where's this so called straw man fallacy?

Again you seem to always come back to everything I say with "high draft picks aren't the solution" lol. I have to laugh at this point because no matter what I saw, that is your answer.

Someone says Edmonton needs to build from within. What does that actually entail if not drafting?

Someone says they need to address defence and goaltending - how do you do that if a) you can't sign a FA, b) you don't want to trade one valuable piece at one position for another?

As I said, everyone seems to have the answer - the solution to Edmonton's problem, but they are't in charge. Speculate all you want, but you and I are no different. You honestly think anyone is going to trade 2 5th overall picks for a 1st?

Do you really think Edmonton is not going to draft the #1 overall player? Of course they will, if they keep the pick.

You've got this big boner for the top end of the draft, so much so that it's getting in your line of sight and blinding you to just about everything else -- that's my point. EDM doesn't need a Yakupov, now or down the line. They need help every where other than up front.

If EDM has a plan in place to help build a WINNER, and not just amass #1 picks regardless of need or roster spots or current holdings, then they will either be looking 1) to move down a few spots at the draft, or 2) to move some of that front end talent for help on the back end. EDM needs a plan to build a winner -- just scooping up the #1 picks isn't cutting it.

You've been a big proponent of losing to secure the high end of the draft, and that winners like PIT are make at the draft table, for not just WEEKS but YEARS, and I'm just so sick of hearing that oversimplified argument, as if repeating it over and over again in difference forms some how makes it true. EDM is going to go no where if they have 6 #1 picks who are forwards and no D or goaltending. They need a plan, a strategy for winning, because finishing in the bottom of the league is NOT one -- it's the absence of a plan, and selling the *hope* of improvement without taking concrete steps to bring it about.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by rooneypoo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:59 pm

Riprock wrote:Seriously Rooney, I have no idea why you keep bringing up drafting high. Edmonton has the #1 Cussing pick dude. What the Diddle do you want them to do? Regardless, what you WANT them to do is your opinion and they will do whatever the Diddle they want.

It's not about what I want, it's about their management having a plan to improve that Dung show in EDM and making it into a potential winner. Drafting the #1 pick year after year and building a lineup of talented forwards with no D or goaltending isn't a plan, it's an accident and a lack of a plan and nothing else. It takes more, much more than that to build a winner.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:00 pm

Okay man, well you need to realize that there is a difference between the #1 overall ranked player and everyone there after. They are ranked #1 for a reason.

While a team might not NEED the best player available to them, they are dumb not to tae them.

Unless a a trade is offered to them that makes sense, they will take the best player regardless of position.

So why don't you stop turning this into an argument about something it isnt't. It's not about how obvious it is that the higher the draft pick the better. Sure, it means you sucked in order to get it, but you get a chance to get a player to make you better.

That's pretty Cussing obvious but yet you will somehow find a way to misinterpret the obvious and turn this around and say that "high drafting isn't the answer" lol.


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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Ev on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:02 pm

We don't even know who the Oilers have ranked #1.

In their eyes there may not be a big difference. It's all subjective.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:02 pm

Except you want them to trade away the #1 pick, or take a player that isn't the #1 ranked player. So which is it? lol



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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Ev on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:06 pm

Riprock wrote:Except you want them to trade away the #1 pick, or take a player that isn't the #1 ranked player. So which is it? lol



What are you talking about? I already responded to you before and said "I THINK THEY SHOULD TAKE YAKUPOV". My other point was that it's not guaranteed that Yakupov is the #1 player according to them. They should take THEIR #1 player, not the #1 ranked played.

I said take Yakupov, trade Hall.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by rooneypoo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:09 pm

Big Ev wrote:
Riprock wrote:Except you want them to trade away the #1 pick, or take a player that isn't the #1 ranked player. So which is it? lol



What are you talking about? I already responded to you before and said "I THINK THEY SHOULD TAKE YAKUPOV". My other point was that it's not guaranteed that Yakupov is the #1 player according to them. They should take THEIR #1 player, not the #1 ranked played.

I said take Yakupov, trade Hall.

I.e., HAVE A PLAN, instead of just amassing #1s and thinking "it will all workout somehow."

EDM doesn't need Yakupov -- the need help everywhere else. What they need to do is translate some of the forward-end talent (the Yakupov pick, some of their younger guns, whichever) into back-end talent.

That pick holds a LOT more value to some other teams, if you ask me, and EDM should capitalize on that to address some of their glaring needs.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by spader on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:13 pm

rooneypoo wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
Riprock wrote:Except you want them to trade away the #1 pick, or take a player that isn't the #1 ranked player. So which is it? lol



What are you talking about? I already responded to you before and said "I THINK THEY SHOULD TAKE YAKUPOV". My other point was that it's not guaranteed that Yakupov is the #1 player according to them. They should take THEIR #1 player, not the #1 ranked played.

I said take Yakupov, trade Hall.

I.e., HAVE A PLAN, instead of just amassing #1s and thinking "it will all workout somehow."

EDM doesn't need Yakupov -- the need help everywhere else. What they need to do is translate some of the forward-end talent (the Yakupov pick, some of their younger guns, whichever) into back-end talent.

That pick holds a LOT more value to some other teams, if you ask me, and EDM should capitalize on that to address some of their glaring needs.
That's what I think, too. Sure, Yakupov would be a good pickup for any team (from what I understand, I've never seen him play), but EDM needs D more than they need forwards. I'd be trying to make a big splashy trade if I was Tambo. Whether he should trade the pick, or trade someone like Hall depends on the market, IMO.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by rooneypoo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:23 pm

spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
Riprock wrote:Except you want them to trade away the #1 pick, or take a player that isn't the #1 ranked player. So which is it? lol



What are you talking about? I already responded to you before and said "I THINK THEY SHOULD TAKE YAKUPOV". My other point was that it's not guaranteed that Yakupov is the #1 player according to them. They should take THEIR #1 player, not the #1 ranked played.

I said take Yakupov, trade Hall.

I.e., HAVE A PLAN, instead of just amassing #1s and thinking "it will all workout somehow."

EDM doesn't need Yakupov -- the need help everywhere else. What they need to do is translate some of the forward-end talent (the Yakupov pick, some of their younger guns, whichever) into back-end talent.

That pick holds a LOT more value to some other teams, if you ask me, and EDM should capitalize on that to address some of their glaring needs.
That's what I think, too. Sure, Yakupov would be a good pickup for any team (from what I understand, I've never seen him play), but EDM needs D more than they need forwards. I'd be trying to make a big splashy trade if I was Tambo. Whether he should trade the pick, or trade someone like Hall depends on the market, IMO.

You can't see the RELATIVE value of picks / players if you think of their value in ABSOLUTIST terms. The thing to realize here is that all value is NEGOTIABLE. It's hard to see that, however, if you see no greater value in the hockey world than a #1 pick.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:46 pm

Big Ev wrote:
Riprock wrote:Except you want them to trade away the #1 pick, or take a player that isn't the #1 ranked player. So which is it? lol



What are you talking about? I already responded to you before and said "I THINK THEY SHOULD TAKE YAKUPOV". My other point was that it's not guaranteed that Yakupov is the #1 player according to them. They should take THEIR #1 player, not the #1 ranked played.

I said take Yakupov, trade Hall.

I wasn't talking to you.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Ev on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:50 pm

Riprock wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
Riprock wrote:Except you want them to trade away the #1 pick, or take a player that isn't the #1 ranked player. So which is it? lol



What are you talking about? I already responded to you before and said "I THINK THEY SHOULD TAKE YAKUPOV". My other point was that it's not guaranteed that Yakupov is the #1 player according to them. They should take THEIR #1 player, not the #1 ranked played.

I said take Yakupov, trade Hall.

I wasn't talking to you.

Oh. TipHat

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:44 pm

It's ok. I forgive you. This time. Dammit!

You aren't the first person we know to suggest trading Hall though.

Personally I'd rather they see what they can do July 1, then use at arde as a last resort. I wouldn't write Hall of this early in his career. If Michalek can bounce back after multiple knee surgeries, one that almost cost him his leg, then Hall and his shoulder's will be fine.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by spader on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:51 pm

Riprock wrote:It's ok. I forgive you. This time. Dammit!

You aren't the first person we know to suggest trading Hall though.

Personally I'd rather they see what they can do July 1, then use at arde as a last resort. I wouldn't write Hall of this early in his career. If Michalek can bounce back after multiple knee surgeries, one that almost cost him his leg, then Hall and his shoulder's will be fine.

Huh? scratch

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Ev on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:53 pm

Riprock wrote:It's ok. I forgive you. This time. Dammit!

You aren't the first person we know to suggest trading Hall though.

Personally I'd rather they see what they can do July 1, then use at arde as a last resort. I wouldn't write Hall of this early in his career. If Michalek can bounce back after multiple knee surgeries, one that almost cost him his leg, then Hall and his shoulder's will be fine.

yes but Hall has shoulder injuries and a leg injury. He also was concussed earlier in the year I believe. He will have to change his style of play most likely. He plays an intense power forward game, Michalek doesn't play the same way. He gets physical but not as intense, high-enery as Hall.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:54 pm

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=315225

"In fact, due to complications from one of those surgeries, Michalek had severe problems with an infection that led to a doctor in the Czech Republic suggesting amputation. Michalek, then a member of the San Jose Sharks, came back to North America and was able to save both his leg and his career."

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by spader on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:54 pm

Riprock wrote:http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=315225

"In fact, due to complications from one of those surgeries, Michalek had severe problems with an infection that led to a doctor in the Czech Republic suggesting amputation. Michalek, then a member of the San Jose Sharks, came back to North America and was able to save both his leg and his career."

Holy Dung! I didn't know that.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:55 pm

Big Ev wrote:
Riprock wrote:It's ok. I forgive you. This time. Dammit!

You aren't the first person we know to suggest trading Hall though.

Personally I'd rather they see what they can do July 1, then use at arde as a last resort. I wouldn't write Hall of this early in his career. If Michalek can bounce back after multiple knee surgeries, one that almost cost him his leg, then Hall and his shoulder's will be fine.

yes but Hall has shoulder injuries and a leg injury. He also was concussed earlier in the year I believe. He will have to change his style of play most likely. He plays an intense power forward game, Michalek doesn't play the same way. He gets physical but not as intense, high-enery as Hall.

Concussions suck, they don't heal. Broken bones heal. Tears and sprains not quite as much, and surgically repaired joints are usually never the same. But he's still too young. And if injuries are a concern to Edmonton, they will be to others, and his value will not be worth a trade.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by spader on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:58 pm

Riprock wrote:
Big Ev wrote:
Riprock wrote:It's ok. I forgive you. This time. Dammit!

You aren't the first person we know to suggest trading Hall though.

Personally I'd rather they see what they can do July 1, then use at arde as a last resort. I wouldn't write Hall of this early in his career. If Michalek can bounce back after multiple knee surgeries, one that almost cost him his leg, then Hall and his shoulder's will be fine.

yes but Hall has shoulder injuries and a leg injury. He also was concussed earlier in the year I believe. He will have to change his style of play most likely. He plays an intense power forward game, Michalek doesn't play the same way. He gets physical but not as intense, high-enery as Hall.

Concussions suck, they don't heal. Broken bones heal. Tears and sprains not quite as much, and surgically repaired joints are usually never the same. But he's still too young. And if injuries are a concern to Edmonton, they will be to others, and his value will not be worth a trade.

Also, shoulders are really tricky. It's such a complicated joint; when you screw up your shoulder, it isn't easy to get back to 100%. I have a really minor shoulder injury, but even with physio and medication, I've been sidelined from my normal workout routine since November. It's the most frustrating injury I've had.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Ev on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:58 pm

Also Hall's injury is the same as Lecavalier's a few years back, and he has never returned to top form.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:02 pm

Oh I know shoulder injuries quite well. I had dislocated my left shoulder probably 7 times, 3 times I had to have it set by doctors, the other times I figured it out myself. I had surgery in 2003, and while I am not a professional athlete, it's functional but my range of mobility is limited.

My right shoulder subluxated so it doesn't fully dislocate but if I throw a ball it will fatigue really quickly and also click out.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:03 pm

Big Ev wrote:Also Hall's injury is the same as Lecavalier's a few years back, and he has never returned to top form.

Age could be a factor too. We could just as well be talking about any player suffering an injury and questioning their future.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Ev on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:07 pm

Riprock wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Also Hall's injury is the same as Lecavalier's a few years back, and he has never returned to top form.

Age could be a factor too. We could just as well be talking about any player suffering an injury and questioning their future.

Which is why Yakupov should be a concern as well. He plays like Hall but is smaller. Already clocked big time this year and suffered a knee tear as well .

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Flo The Action on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:12 pm

Riprock wrote:It's ok. I forgive you. This time. Dammit!

You aren't the first person we know to suggest trading Hall though.

Personally I'd rather they see what they can do July 1, then use at arde as a last resort. I wouldn't write Hall of this early in his career. If Michalek can bounce back after multiple knee surgeries, one that almost cost him his leg, then Hall and his shoulder's will be fine.

yeah trading hall is a bit reactionary to this shoulder problem we've been hearing about. If I understood correctly the problem dates to his junior career and could have been dealt with earlier but they opted to wait. so it's not really recurring as much as having never been properly dealt with. anyway that's the way I understood it.


I'm not against them drafting yakupov but they have to do something about their back end. If they think Nail will be better then Hall then they can act accordingly. but I think this is an opportunity for them to aquire a great D-man prospect that will step into the league in a year or two(beaulieu didn't look out of place at all last pre-season in montreal, all he needs IMO is to bulk up) and move down a couple of spots to draft another one. isn't Dumba considered almost NHL ready?
great opportunity for the oilers to maximize with this pick.

IMO moving down is the best thing for the Immediate and for the future.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:41 pm

But nobody knows what the cost to a team to move up will be.

I think the speculation of Schenn + 5th is insane. That's two 5th overall picks.

I know that if you look at it like that, then you also have to consider the Sens got a 6th overall for a 3rd round pick, and a 3rd overall pick for a ~16th overall and a 2nd round pick.

But Luke Schenn isn't even a bad player. This is the same player Burke said he would not trade under any circumstance.

Like I said, if I am Edmonton I would wait and see who I can get for free (free as in without giving up anything in return).

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by SpezDispenser on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:02 pm

Yeah, some kind of a long range plan would probably be a pretty good idea in Edmonton. Or...not Tambellini in other words.

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Re: 2012 NHL Draft

Post by rooneypoo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:47 pm

SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah, some kind of a long range plan would probably be a pretty good idea in Edmonton. Or...not Tambellini in other words.

It's the same reason why it's a Dung show in TOR, too. No plan, no vision, no winning. You win all the trades you want and get all the #1 picks you want, but until things get fixed / addressed at that fundamental level, you're not likely to see much change.

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