2012 NHL Draft

    Share

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by NEELY on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:25 pm

    Riprock wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    Riprock wrote:
    Fact is, they will get those players eventually. Edmonton is slowly becoming a place for FA's to play - lots of $$$ and young stars.

    What are you basing this on? The fact that they are no more competitive than they were three years ago? What FAs have they landed that make you think they are "becoming a place for FAs to play"?????

    Big Ev wrote:
    No they won't. Edmonton is a Dung of a city. No free agent will go there just because they have some flashy kids.

    @mirtle Tambellini said Oilers getting more interest from free agents now they have stars like Hall and Eberle.

    Sarcasm

    Is he selling swamp land too?

    Until they actually land a big name I'm going with the assumption they need to build something from within.

    Riprock
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11867
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:33 pm

    Evan, who said "big names"?

    And, this is something he just said - post-Smyth and Belanger. And actually, those are character signings. And Smyth wasn't a FA signing. Nice try though.

    Hey NEELY, they are building from within - it's called drafting - but when they do that, you guys still Dung on them.

    They've been trying to add big names from FA, remember Vanek? That didn't work out (probably best for them). They tried to get Heatley (probably best for us).

    They've had bad PR from douchebag Pronger.

    Riprock
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11867
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:37 pm

    And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

    You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

    If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

    Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

    SeawaySensFan
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 24039
    Age : 44
    Location : Cornwall, ON
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-02

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:39 pm

    Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

    You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

    If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

    Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

    Surely you're not comparing Yakupov to Crosby?

    Riprock
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11867
    Age : 32
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:43 pm

    It's the same concept - trading the #1 pick for the best player available instead of taking hm and worrying about other needs later some other way.

    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 20303
    Age : 25
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Ev on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:47 pm

    Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

    You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

    If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

    Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

    I said the Oilers should draft Yakupov. But this draft is pretty weak.

    SeawaySensFan
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 24039
    Age : 44
    Location : Cornwall, ON
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-02

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:47 pm

    Riprock wrote:It's the same concept - trading the #1 pick for the best player available instead of taking hm and worrying about other needs later some other way.

    What if your scouts don't consider the consensus #1 to be the best player available?

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 33
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by NEELY on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:49 pm

    Riprock wrote:Evan, who said "big names"?

    And, this is something he just said - post-Smyth and Belanger. And actually, those are character signings. And Smyth wasn't a FA signing. Nice try though.

    Hey NEELY, they are building from within - it's called drafting - but when they do that, you guys still Dung on them.

    They've been trying to add big names from FA, remember Vanek? That didn't work out (probably best for them). They tried to get Heatley (probably best for us).

    They've had bad PR from douchebag Pronger.

    They're drafting? It's pretty easy to draft 1st overall each year. If they trade this 1st round pick and get some real help (present and future) on the backend or in goal then I will buy what they are selling. As of right now they are just putting together a ton of talent that has no chance in hell of winning.

    Edmonton isn't close (as of right now) from getting over the giant hump that's the worst team in the NHL. They need more then just talented forwards who can put up some numbers. They need to trade that 1st round pick to either Montreal or NYI.

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 33
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by NEELY on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:51 pm

    Riprock wrote:It's the same concept - trading the #1 pick for the best player available instead of taking hm and worrying about other needs later some other way.

    It is to a point. At some point in time you build a team, no just throw Dung against a wall and hope it sticks.

    Eberle (legit NHL star in the making), RNH (same), and Hall are 3 guy you can build an entire offense around. They need help getting the puck from point A to point B and that starts with a save and then moves on to getting the puck up ice from your D. Yakapov isn't going to help with any of that. He might not even be as good as either of those 3, ever.

    rooneypoo
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 7411
    Age : 37
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-11

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by rooneypoo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:40 pm

    Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

    You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

    If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

    Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

    The only answer that everyone has for you is, "drafting high isn't the only thing that goes into building a winner." It's one, equally important component in a much larger, much more complicated, much more varieted strategy. No one, positively no one, is saying that building from within or drafting isn't important; rather, they're objecting to the idea that drafting high is the one and only way to build a winner and/or the KEY to building a winner.

    But I guess it's easier to set yourself up against a strawman argument, right?

    Flo The Action
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11066
    Age : 40
    Location : montreal
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-18

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 pm

    yeah I agree. It's great if Edmonton has amazing forwards but it ain't gonna fill the gaps on the back end. they might be able to work a few trades. I could see them trying to land Bernier from LA or even wait and see what happens with Luongo/schneider in the playoffs. if Vancouver falls early during the playoffs Luongo might become available for a price less then you'd think due to the length of his contract.

    as for their top pick well I totally agree that MTL sounds the perfect trade partner. they'd get whatever they think will be the best D-man available and probably land Nathan Beaulieu also in that deal(no way they deal PK, sorry Neely). Montreal gets the thing they need to get over their terrible season a future star. something they haven't had since... Roy or Damphouse?

    Flo The Action
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11066
    Age : 40
    Location : montreal
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-18

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:44 pm

    Amnesia021 wrote:not sure if you've seen this yet, but pretty funny... ultimate disappointment Smile

    I love how you can hear the girl say "Fail for Nail" just before they reveal the Oilers won. totally jinxed it.

    just goes to show you can't fail and expect to win the best pick.

    Riprock
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11867
    Age : 32
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:31 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

    You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

    If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

    Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

    The only answer that everyone has for you is, "drafting high isn't the only thing that goes into building a winner." It's one, equally important component in a much larger, much more complicated, much more varieted strategy. No one, positively no one, is saying that building from within or drafting isn't important; rather, they're objecting to the idea that drafting high is the one and only way to build a winner and/or the KEY to building a winner.

    But I guess it's easier to set yourself up against a strawman argument, right?

    Why did you even come here and reply to me? And why would you respond to one thing I said and reply out of context to it?

    Where's this so called straw man fallacy?

    Again you seem to always come back to everything I say with "high draft picks aren't the solution" lol. I have to laugh at this point because no matter what I saw, that is your answer.

    Someone says Edmonton needs to build from within. What does that actually entail if not drafting?

    Someone says they need to address defence and goaltending - how do you do that if a) you can't sign a FA, b) you don't want to trade one valuable piece at one position for another?

    As I said, everyone seems to have the answer - the solution to Edmonton's problem, but they are't in charge. Speculate all you want, but you and I are no different. You honestly think anyone is going to trade 2 5th overall picks for a 1st?

    Do you really think Edmonton is not going to draft the #1 overall player? Of course they will, if they keep the pick.

    shabbs
    Hall of Famer
    Hall of Famer

    Number of posts : 31416
    Location : I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-12

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by shabbs on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:32 pm

    Here we go...

    Riprock
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11867
    Age : 32
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:32 pm

    Seriously Rooney, I have no idea why you keep bringing up drafting high. Edmonton has the #1 Cussing pick dude. What the Diddle do you want them to do? Regardless, what you WANT them to do is your opinion and they will do whatever the Diddle they want.

    Riprock
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11867
    Age : 32
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:33 pm

    shabbs wrote:Here we go...

    Well dude, what do you want me to do? We are here talking about what Edmonton should do and it turns into another Rooney Dung show about how high drafting isn't the only answer. What the Diddle does that have to do with the fact Edmonton has and had the #1 pick for the past 3 seasons?

    Rooney just comes in out of nowhere and takes my comments out of context and then turns it into the same attack, every time.



    Riprock
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 11867
    Age : 32
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Riprock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:39 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    Riprock wrote:Evan, who said "big names"?

    And, this is something he just said - post-Smyth and Belanger. And actually, those are character signings. And Smyth wasn't a FA signing. Nice try though.

    Hey NEELY, they are building from within - it's called drafting - but when they do that, you guys still Dung on them.

    They've been trying to add big names from FA, remember Vanek? That didn't work out (probably best for them). They tried to get Heatley (probably best for us).

    They've had bad PR from douchebag Pronger.

    They're drafting? It's pretty easy to draft 1st overall each year. If they trade this 1st round pick and get some real help (present and future) on the backend or in goal then I will buy what they are selling. As of right now they are just putting together a ton of talent that has no chance in hell of winning.

    Edmonton isn't close (as of right now) from getting over the giant hump that's the worst team in the NHL. They need more then just talented forwards who can put up some numbers. They need to trade that 1st round pick to either Montreal or NYI.

    It's not that easy to draft #1 - case in point your exact criticism of their team. For the past 3 years they have been handed the best player in the draft that happens to be a forward. They would be dumb not to take them. They could trade one of them, but you just end up adding to one area and subtracting from another. They'd be much better adding without subtracting. They will look at their other picks for those needs, as well as the free agency market.

    Not to mention the backlash trading the #1 pick would have. Edmonton fans are pretty passionate and I can imagine how even the Sens fans would react to the Sens trading the #1 pick, even the #5 pick.

    I honestly can't see any team being dumb enough to pay what Edmonton would want in exchange for the pick, and considering even yourself says the draft is a crap shoot because you never know how the player will turn out, why would they gamble that?


    rooneypoo
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 7411
    Age : 37
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-11

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by rooneypoo on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:55 pm

    Riprock wrote:
    rooneypoo wrote:
    Riprock wrote:And back to drafting - they have the #1 pick and the #1 ranked guy isn't a defenceman or a goalie, so what do you expect them to do?

    You guys seem to have all the answers, but if it was Ottawa, would you seriously say the same thing?

    If Ottawa had the #1 pick and didn't take Yakupov this year, would you be upset? If they traded the pick to move down, would you be mad? Do you really expect a team to give up a young top 4 defenceman + top 10 pick for the #1 overall?

    Imagine a team stacked at C getting the lotto pick in 2005 and not taking Crosby because it didn't solve a positional need lol.

    The only answer that everyone has for you is, "drafting high isn't the only thing that goes into building a winner." It's one, equally important component in a much larger, much more complicated, much more variated strategy. No one, positively no one, is saying that building from within or drafting isn't important; rather, they're objecting to the idea that drafting high is the one and only way to build a winner and/or the KEY to building a winner.

    But I guess it's easier to set yourself up against a strawman argument, right?

    Why did you even come here and reply to me? And why would you respond to one thing I said and reply out of context to it?

    Where's this so called straw man fallacy?

    Again you seem to always come back to everything I say with "high draft picks aren't the solution" lol. I have to laugh at this point because no matter what I saw, that is your answer.

    Someone says Edmonton needs to build from within. What does that actually entail if not drafting?

    Someone says they need to address defence and goaltending - how do you do that if a) you can't sign a FA, b) you don't want to trade one valuable piece at one position for another?

    As I said, everyone seems to have the answer - the solution to Edmonton's problem, but they are't in charge. Speculate all you want, but you and I are no different. You honestly think anyone is going to trade 2 5th overall picks for a 1st?

    Do you really think Edmonton is not going to draft the #1 overall player? Of course they will, if they keep the pick.

    You've got this big boner for the top end of the draft, so much so that it's getting in your line of sight and blinding you to just about everything else -- that's my point. EDM doesn't need a Yakupov, now or down the line. They need help every where other than up front.

    If EDM has a plan in place to help build a WINNER, and not just amass #1 picks regardless of need or roster spots or current holdings, then they will either be looking 1) to move down a few spots at the draft, or 2) to move some of that front end talent for help on the back end. EDM needs a plan to build a winner -- just scooping up the #1 picks isn't cutting it.

    You've been a big proponent of losing to secure the high end of the draft, and that winners like PIT are make at the draft table, for not just WEEKS but YEARS, and I'm just so sick of hearing that oversimplified argument, as if repeating it over and over again in difference forms some how makes it true. EDM is going to go no where if they have 6 #1 picks who are forwards and no D or goaltending. They need a plan, a strategy for winning, because finishing in the bottom of the league is NOT one -- it's the absence of a plan, and selling the *hope* of improvement without taking concrete steps to bring it about.

    Sponsored content

    Re: 2012 NHL Draft

    Post by Sponsored content Today at 10:12 am


      Current date/time is Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:12 am