Refereeing and what can be done

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    tim1_2
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    Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by tim1_2 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:32 am

    Refereeing is probably the single biggest frustration that sports fans have. We've definitely been the victim of a couple horrible calls lately. Let's not forget that we benefitted from questionable officiating versus the Leafs. I know SSF's theory that most refs grew up as Leafs or Habs fans and now have the Sens as their team's rival…. I would assume that the Leafs fans would have it out more for the Sens…moving on.

    Let's test that theory. The referee that ejected Foligno a few games back, called that mind-boggling penalty shot the other night, and then waved off the goal last night was Tim Peel. So I looked up Tim Peel. Birthplace? Toronto, ON. Ha.

    http://www.nhlofficials.com/previous_fo.asp?member_id=2071

    So, birthplace aside, it is entirely reasonable to assume that most of these refs were Leafs/Habs fans growing up. These guys are obviously passionate hockey people, having spent their lives playing and now officiating. Obviously, they all had their favourite teams growing up, and those feelings don't go away just because you start working in the business.

    So, yes, I buy in to SSF's theory.


    Perhaps the larger problem is the lack of accountability on behalf of the officials. You never hear squat about questionable calls from the league after the fact. Not that anything would change, but it would be great if more explanation was offered, or "bad" calls were at least acknowledged. I get that the refs wouldn't like public statements admitting poor work, but given the total absence of ANY sort of communication, anything would be better than the nothing we currently get. I'm held accountable at my job for my performance - it would be nice to see the referees held accountable, and mistakes acknowledged.

    The NFL had a show on the NFL Network (not 100% sure it still exits). It ran for a half hour once a week and was hosted by the head referee. He went through the video from controversial calls and would explain the decision made and whether or not it was the right one (the NFL has the benefit now of video review for MANY infractions). This would be AWESOME for hockey fans (and probably players too), although, of course, the referees wouldn't be thrilled.

    What else can be done to improve refereeing? Well, I'd like to see video-review expanded. Using the Phillips-covered-the-puck-in-the-crease example, why is that NOT a reviewable play? Spotting if a player actually puts their hand over the puck in the crease for a split-second is HARD in real-time. Why not add this to the list of video-reviewable plays? It's not like it's something that is happening every game, so slowing down the pace of the game shouldn't be a concern. And when the potential consequence of error in making this call results in a goal…well, it's a no-brainer to me.

    I think the two referee system is a good idea that improved officiating…anyone else have more ideas for improvement?

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by PTFlea on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:35 am

    tim1_2 wrote:
    Perhaps the larger problem is the lack of accountability on behalf of the officials. You never hear squat about questionable calls from the league after the fact. Not that anything would change, but it would be great if more explanation was offered, or "bad" calls were at least acknowledged. I get that the refs wouldn't like public statements admitting poor work, but given the total absence of ANY sort of communication, anything would be better than the nothing we currently get. I'm held accountable at my job for my performance - it would be nice to see the referees held accountable, and mistakes acknowledged.

    The NFL had a show on the NFL Network (not 100% sure it still exits). It ran for a half hour once a week and was hosted by the head referee. He went through the video from controversial calls and would explain the decision made and whether or not it was the right one (the NFL has the benefit now of video review for MANY infractions). This would be AWESOME for hockey fans (and probably players too), although, of course, the referees wouldn't be thrilled.

    We're in the dark ages, this should have been done a long, long time ago. All we all want is fair reffing - something that I felt lacked in the last week from O'Dork and Peel, so if there was a show where all their calls were analysed by the head of officiating, that would appease fans and highlight what these refs need to work on (like getting glasses).


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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:38 am

    I think the reffing is what it is and you really can't do anything to improve it. I just think that it's ridiculous to blame Clouston for the clear and long-standing bias of officials.

    Looking back on the early schedule and the seemingly "easy" second half I'd say that was a nice attempt by the schedule maker to derail the Senators season too.

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by tim1_2 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:44 am

    Another thing I don't get is why Peel was reffing so many Ottawa games in a short period of time. Mixing it up should be a priority by the NHL to ensure "relationships" of the positive or negative nature don't develop.

    For those who didn't see it, Yost had a decent bit about the officiating (and other stuff):

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Travis-Yost/More-of-the-Same-in-Phoenix-Coyotes-Beat-Senators-3-2/134/41610

    Edit: The NFL show reviewing questionable calls is called "Official Review".

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by Number Twenty Nine on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:53 am

    The refs are the only participants in the NHL that are NOT held accountable for their actions. Every one else is.

    Video challenging is long over due in the NHL. It would equalize things PDQ.

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by PTFlea on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:54 am

    I don't understand for the life of me why O'Dork and Peel did back to back games. Sure, 19 times out of 20 there are little to no issues with refs, but what if there are? Shouldn't these guys be rotated around?


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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by LeCaptain on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:57 am

    1 Challenge per team per game.

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by tim1_2 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:02 am

    LeKid wrote:1 Challenge per team per game.

    You would need to define what IS challengeable and what isn't.

    Goalie interference currently is not a reviewable play, but I think it should be if the result was a goal.

    I would like to see challenges instituted as well...it would also add some drama.

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:05 am

    tim1_2 wrote:
    LeKid wrote:1 Challenge per team per game.

    You would need to define what IS challengeable and what isn't.

    Goalie interference currently is not a reviewable play, but I think it should be if the result was a goal.

    I would like to see challenges instituted as well...it would also add some drama.

    And more revenue. This challenge is brought to you by...

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by tim1_2 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:16 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    And more revenue. This challenge is brought to you by...

    "QUAKER OATS!! Eat your damn oatmeal and you, too, can challenge The Man like Paul MacLean!"

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by Number Twenty Nine on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:20 am

    I would like a system where they can have the right to challenge , with an extra penalty if the ruling is upheld and overturn the call if not. The twist I would add is - if you are wrong, you lose your challenge right for the rest of the game. If you are right - no loss of challenge right and you can challenge again at another point in the game (until you are wrong).

    This would keep the refs honest and the coaches from abusing their challenges.

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by shabbs on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:45 am

    LeKid wrote:1 Challenge per team per game.
    I think we'll see this implemented one day. Just how they do it, not sure. Would be great for situations like that penalty shot or when there's a high stick that was actually from the guys team mate... they'll have to clearly define what the coach can and cannot challenge.

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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by wprager on Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:08 pm

    I like the idea about keeping your right to challenge until you lose a challenge.

    I'd like to also eliminate more grey areas. There are so many of them, though. Tell me, what is the purpose of a player slapping an opposing player from behind with his stick. He doesn't hook him, it's not really strong enough for a slash, so not a penalty, but what the hell does it have to do with hockey? If he is trying to raise the guy's stick to take the puck away, or slash on his stick to knock the puck off -- those I understand, but just stupid, mindless slapping of the stick on the thigh that *sometimes* gets called (either slashing or hooking) but usually does not -- that I can do without. If it's hot a hockey play, get rid of by calling it like they do fouls in basketball. You touch, you're gone. It would make for horrible hockey for a while, unfortunately.

    There are many others just like that, unfortunately.

    Why does a ref have to rely on a bunch of guys sitting in Toronto? We've got the technology to place a high-def monitor right there in the timekeeper's area for the ref to look at. He can communicate with the guys in the video booth to ask for different angles then have *HIS OWN* controls for fordward/rewind/pause and frame-by-frame advance. What they do right now, I'm surprised he doesn't have to crank up the phone like they did in WW-I.

    Several high-def cameras placed inside the crossbar, pointing straight down to the goal line, so there is no angle to worry about.

    Program every player's dimensions into a program so that they could, at any place on the ice, determine where the puck was touched. I'm sure it could be done.

    P.S. As far as it is to insinuate it, I don't believe there is bias against the Sens because of the refs' favorite team growing up. They are not kindergartners. That said, the refs can *definitely* form a bias against certain players or coaches.

    I believe the NHL *does* have a program in place for rating a referee's performance; it's just that they never talk about it or about the outcomes. We can only judge by seeing a particular referee appear (or not) in the post season.

    I think Kerry Fraser is lobbying for a job with his C'mon Ref blog.


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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by wprager on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:54 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:Another thing I don't get is why Peel was reffing so many Ottawa games in a short period of time. Mixing it up should be a priority by the NHL to ensure "relationships" of the positive or negative nature don't develop.

    For those who didn't see it, Yost had a decent bit about the officiating (and other stuff):

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Travis-Yost/More-of-the-Same-in-Phoenix-Coyotes-Beat-Senators-3-2/134/41610

    Edit: The NFL show reviewing questionable calls is called "Official Review".

    I didn't realize (until I read the blog and the comments section) that it was Tim Peel who ejected Foligno for that "charging" call on Ellerby. I really can't understand how anyone would question that this guy has it in for the Senators or Foligno or both. It's either that, or he is a horribly incompetent to call an NHL game. There just isn't another explanation.


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    Re: Refereeing and what can be done

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:57 pm

    wprager wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Another thing I don't get is why Peel was reffing so many Ottawa games in a short period of time. Mixing it up should be a priority by the NHL to ensure "relationships" of the positive or negative nature don't develop.

    For those who didn't see it, Yost had a decent bit about the officiating (and other stuff):

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Travis-Yost/More-of-the-Same-in-Phoenix-Coyotes-Beat-Senators-3-2/134/41610

    Edit: The NFL show reviewing questionable calls is called "Official Review".

    I didn't realize (until I read the blog and the comments section) that it was Tim Peel who ejected Foligno for that "charging" call on Ellerby. I really can't understand how anyone would question that this guy has it in for the Senators or Foligno or both. It's either that, or he is a horribly incompetent to call an NHL game. There just isn't another explanation.

    Here's an excerpt from TeePee's Bio:

    Birthplace: Toronto, Ontario

    http://www.nhlofficials.com/previous_fo.asp?member_id=2071

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