General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

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    Ev
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Ev on Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:44 am

    Riprock wrote:Another point is that a tean like Pittsburgh that was a bottom team for 4 years went from bottom to up in a couple of years. I don't think Edmonton will be as fast, but my point is Ottawa could have with the team they already had.

    Because of Crosby and Malkin whom the Sens don't have...and a legit #1 goalie they drafted 1st overall.

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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by shabbs on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:03 am

    Big Ev wrote:
    Riprock wrote:Another point is that a tean like Pittsburgh that was a bottom team for 4 years went from bottom to up in a couple of years. I don't think Edmonton will be as fast, but my point is Ottawa could have with the team they already had.

    Because of Crosby and Malkin whom the Sens don't have...and a legit #1 goalie they drafted 1st overall.
    Worked out nicely for them eh... Fleury, Malkin, Crosby... almost too nicely... Wink


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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by shabbs on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:51 am

    Crosby Return Part II Watch:

    Josh Yohe: Crosby not skating on regular line at practice which would seem to indicate he isn't playing tomorrow.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by PTFlea on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:05 pm

    shabbs wrote:Rags lost to the Hawks last night... that's three in a row and 4 of their last 5.

    What's with them giving up 12 goals in 3 games? Torts is gonna have a Dung fit.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by PTFlea on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:06 pm

    Radulov to come to NA this week? Sounds like it's coming now for sure.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by shabbs on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:54 pm

    Crosby may return on Thursday vs the Rangers in NY.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=389963
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Riprock on Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:23 pm

    Big Ev wrote:
    Riprock wrote:Another point is that a tean like Pittsburgh that was a bottom team for 4 years went from bottom to up in a couple of years. I don't think Edmonton will be as fast, but my point is Ottawa could have with the team they already had.

    Because of Crosby and Malkin whom the Sens don't have...and a legit #1 goalie they drafted 1st overall.

    Interesting how that works, that a top pick is more likely to draft a star.

    Turned out pretty nice for them I'd say.

    Edmonton doesn't have a Spezza, Alfredsson or Karlsson. If Ottawa had the picks that turned into Hall and Nugent-Hopkins they'd be better. That is the only point I was making. Then it turned into a discussion about having all the best players, and that if Ottawa had those two, they wouldn't have some of the bottom 6 players they have, etc.

    Like you say Zibanejad > Coutirier, but anyone who says Zibanejad > Nugent-Hopkins is silly. Or even Landeskog.

    Funny how a lot of people were so excited to possibly have Landeskog or Huberdeau, and RNH at one point, but that now that we have Zibanejad it's like he was the best player all the time.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Ev on Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:36 pm

    Riprock wrote:
    Big Ev wrote:
    Riprock wrote:Another point is that a tean like Pittsburgh that was a bottom team for 4 years went from bottom to up in a couple of years. I don't think Edmonton will be as fast, but my point is Ottawa could have with the team they already had.

    Because of Crosby and Malkin whom the Sens don't have...and a legit #1 goalie they drafted 1st overall.

    Interesting how that works, that a top pick is more likely to draft a star.

    Turned out pretty nice for them I'd say.

    Edmonton doesn't have a Spezza, Alfredsson or Karlsson. If Ottawa had the picks that turned into Hall and Nugent-Hopkins they'd be better. That is the only point I was making. Then it turned into a discussion about having all the best players, and that if Ottawa had those two, they wouldn't have some of the bottom 6 players they have, etc.

    Like you say Zibanejad > Coutirier, but anyone who says Zibanejad > Nugent-Hopkins is silly. Or even Landeskog.

    Funny how a lot of people were so excited to possibly have Landeskog or Huberdeau, and RNH at one point, but that now that we have Zibanejad it's like he was the best player all the time.

    lol not even going to get into this comment....if you can't see the difference between drafting a Crosby over a guy like Hall, I don't know what to tell you. Penguins got very very lucky.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Riprock on Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:43 pm

    Good thing you aren't commenting cause I never said they were so you'd just be embarrassing yourself.

    No idea how you even interpreted anything remotely close to me saying Crosby = Hall.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Riprock on Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:54 pm

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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by rooneypoo on Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:54 pm

    Riprock wrote:

    Dude, again, you don't have an argument beyond "it's awesome to draft awesome players," which is true only the narrowest of terms -- i.e., abstractly, where losing and other franchise realities have no bearing on the question.

    Which is to say, you're either stating the obvious, or you're arguing for a purely abstract idea that is, by definition, not obtainable here and now in the real world where organizations have to deal with all the intangible issues you want to sidestep.

    Of course drafting high can do good for a team. Of course some franchises have drafted high and succeeded as a team because of those players. And of course drafting high tends to increase the odds of getting a franchise players. Who would deny any of that? But we've also seen how drafting high does nothing or very little for a team, how teams make bad choices at the table year after year, and how some players drafted high turn out to be busts. Drafting is a 50/50 proposition AT BEST. That's it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's not a foolproof strategy for drafting or for building a team, and there are SO MANY other factors involved.

    Meanwhile, building a winning culture across the organization, at every level and in every way possible, has always led to longer lasting gains. I know I wouldn't say that Zibanejad is a better player than RNH or Landeskog, at the time of the draft or now, but I do know that picking a bit lower was a function of the organization making a number of steps in the right direction towards building a winning culture -- which, in the long run, is going to be more important than any single player you might get at a draft.

    Again, nothing -- nothing -- is better for a team than building a winning culture.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by spader on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:21 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Riprock wrote:

    Dude, again, you don't have an argument beyond "it's awesome to draft awesome players," which is true only the narrowest of terms -- i.e., abstractly, where losing and other franchise realities have no bearing on the question.

    Which is to say, you're either stating the obvious, or you're arguing for a purely abstract idea that is, by definition, not obtainable here and now in the real world where organizations have to deal with all the intangible issues you want to sidestep.

    Of course drafting high can do good for a team. Of course some franchises have drafted high and succeeded as a team because of those players. And of course drafting high tends to increase the odds of getting a franchise players. Who would deny any of that? But we've also seen how drafting high does nothing or very little for a team, how teams make bad choices at the table year after year, and how some players drafted high turn out to be busts. Drafting is a 50/50 proposition AT BEST. That's it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's not a foolproof strategy for drafting or for building a team, and there are SO MANY other factors involved.

    Meanwhile, building a winning culture across the organization, at every level and in every way possible, has always led to longer lasting gains. I know I wouldn't say that Zibanejad is a better player than RNH or Landeskog, at the time of the draft or now, but I do know that picking a bit lower was a function of the organization making a number of steps in the right direction towards building a winning culture -- which, in the long run, is going to be more important than any single player you might get at a draft.

    Again, nothing -- nothing -- is better for a team than building a winning culture.

    Except Crosby. Sarcasm

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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:28 pm

    Riprock wrote:Good thing you aren't commenting cause I never said they were so you'd just be embarrassing yourself.

    No idea how you even interpreted anything remotely close to me saying Crosby = Hall.

    I'll comment. CBJ, NYI, EDM, WNN, FLR... where are those bottom feeders? A bad organizaion is a bad organization. If it wasn't for Mario you wouldn't even be talking about Pens because they would be renamed playing in Ontario.

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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by NEELY on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:30 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Riprock wrote:

    Dude, again, you don't have an argument beyond "it's awesome to draft awesome players," which is true only the narrowest of terms -- i.e., abstractly, where losing and other franchise realities have no bearing on the question.

    Which is to say, you're either stating the obvious, or you're arguing for a purely abstract idea that is, by definition, not obtainable here and now in the real world where organizations have to deal with all the intangible issues you want to sidestep.

    Of course drafting high can do good for a team. Of course some franchises have drafted high and succeeded as a team because of those players. And of course drafting high tends to increase the odds of getting a franchise players. Who would deny any of that? But we've also seen how drafting high does nothing or very little for a team, how teams make bad choices at the table year after year, and how some players drafted high turn out to be busts. Drafting is a 50/50 proposition AT BEST. That's it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's not a foolproof strategy for drafting or for building a team, and there are SO MANY other factors involved.

    Meanwhile, building a winning culture across the organization, at every level and in every way possible, has always led to longer lasting gains. I know I wouldn't say that Zibanejad is a better player than RNH or Landeskog, at the time of the draft or now, but I do know that picking a bit lower was a function of the organization making a number of steps in the right direction towards building a winning culture -- which, in the long run, is going to be more important than any single player you might get at a draft.

    Again, nothing -- nothing -- is better for a team than building a winning culture.

    Everyone knows what Dash thinks about this and no one in the world agrees with him. A loser is a loser is a loser. NHL or otherwise.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by shabbs on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:52 pm

    Detroit hasn't had a top 10 draft in like a billion years, yet they keep winning and are always competitive. They've been able to foster a winning culture for sure and that's been working very well for them, along with some pretty awesome drafting.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by shabbs on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:04 pm

    Caps with a huge 4-3 win over Boston today. Big opportunity for the Sens to get to within 1 point of the NE Division lead.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by shabbs on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:14 pm

    Markov to make Habs debut tonight in Vancouver.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by PTFlea on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:48 pm

    shabbs wrote:Markov to make Habs debut tonight in Vancouver.

    ...and then he'll be hurt again for the next 6 months.

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