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Free Agency - Where Do They Go?

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91 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:43 am

rooneypoo


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SpezDispenser wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:I'll be content with Garrison, everything else would be gravy. Or I guess Parenteau. One or the other please (or both)!

Oh, you mean the next Redden or Gomez anchor of a contract? Hope we stay far, far away from that one..

No, no, no. He's not like that. Although Gomez sucked out of nowhere, but Redden was fading fast when he signed with the Rangers. I tell you, at WORST Garrison is a 2nd pairing D-man who can play defense very well, but his cannon of a shot separates him from ever truly sucking.

Someone is going to make a big mistake with Garrison, and I really hope it's not us. Guy had basically 3 months of good play, and then faded huge in the 2nd half. At $4 mil per, 2 years? Sure. At $5 mil per for 5 years? Go F yourself.

92 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:47 am

rooneypoo


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wprager wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:Because they have no chance to get him and Murray's smart enough not to waste time on that kind of thing. Same with Suter. You call his agent and say we're prepared to offer 7 X 7, please get back to us before 11AM so we can pursue other people.

To me, this franchise has no greater organizational need than a top winger like Parise. Do your due diligence, or at least send a rep to do it for you.

This franchise was 4th in the league in scoring, but near the bottom in goals given up. The greatest need is to improve their play in their own end.

When Alfie retires this year or next, our only legitimate top 6ers will be Spezza and Michalek. You can make a case for Turris belonging there too, but he's not exactly a proven commodity yet. After that, we have a bunch of tweeners and rookies.

We need a top 3 winger to help replace Alfie's production and leadership, and to give us ONE legitimate top line. I do not want the long term health of this organization, production and leadership wise, to fall on Spezza's shoulders. At all.

Don't quote stats on this one. This is much more rudimentary and foundational than that. You can't quantify what Alfie brings, and that's what we need to start looking to replace.

93 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:00 pm

PTFlea


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rooneypoo wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:I'll be content with Garrison, everything else would be gravy. Or I guess Parenteau. One or the other please (or both)!

Oh, you mean the next Redden or Gomez anchor of a contract? Hope we stay far, far away from that one..

No, no, no. He's not like that. Although Gomez sucked out of nowhere, but Redden was fading fast when he signed with the Rangers. I tell you, at WORST Garrison is a 2nd pairing D-man who can play defense very well, but his cannon of a shot separates him from ever truly sucking.

Someone is going to make a big mistake with Garrison, and I really hope it's not us. Guy had basically 3 months of good play, and then faded huge in the 2nd half. At $4 mil per, 2 years? Sure. At $5 mil per for 5 years? Go F yourself.

The thing is: even when he cooled down in the 2nd half, he was still excellent positionally and in his own zone. It's not like Wideman where if he busts offensively, you can't count on him defensively. I think this type of 'hybrid' is coveted by a lot of teams, including Ottawa.

94 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:01 pm

PTFlea

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Benoit Pouliot signs a 1 year, 1,8 deal with TB. Very nice deal for TB.

95 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:05 pm

rooneypoo

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SpezDispenser wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:I'll be content with Garrison, everything else would be gravy. Or I guess Parenteau. One or the other please (or both)!

Oh, you mean the next Redden or Gomez anchor of a contract? Hope we stay far, far away from that one..

No, no, no. He's not like that. Although Gomez sucked out of nowhere, but Redden was fading fast when he signed with the Rangers. I tell you, at WORST Garrison is a 2nd pairing D-man who can play defense very well, but his cannon of a shot separates him from ever truly sucking.

Someone is going to make a big mistake with Garrison, and I really hope it's not us. Guy had basically 3 months of good play, and then faded huge in the 2nd half. At $4 mil per, 2 years? Sure. At $5 mil per for 5 years? Go F yourself.

The thing is: even when he cooled down in the 2nd half, he was still excellent positionally and in his own zone. It's not like Wideman where if he busts offensively, you can't count on him defensively. I think this type of 'hybrid' is coveted by a lot of teams, including Ottawa.

Pay Bryan Allen half the money for half the term, and you'll get a surer bet and a better defensive Dman. Avoid the neon lights on July 1.

96 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:07 pm

PTFlea

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Bryan Allen has no offense though, Garrison has a ~100 MPH shot.

97 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:09 pm

wprager

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And yet we were top-five in the league, and when Alfie went down for three weeks we continued fine without him. Alfie is and always will be Alfie, but he is not the be-all and end-all to this team like he used to be.
He was not a top-3 winger last season.

This year we have Spezza, Alfredsson, Michalek, Turris, Foligno, Silfverberg. We have Zibanejad, Stone, Noesen coming up. Getting a top-six would be great -- I'd have no problems with most of the ones mentioned (Nash, Parise, Penner). I just don't see the need for some moves suggested (like Hudler) and I disagree with the statement that the one, biggest need is a top-six forward.


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98 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:10 pm

rooneypoo

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SpezDispenser wrote:Bryan Allen has no offense though, Garrison has a ~100 MPH shot.

So why did he score a total of 3 goals in the last 3 months of the season?

It's not that he's not a decent player, it's that you're going to have to massively overpay on dollar figure and term to get him, and he's no at all a sure thing. Pass, pass, pass.

99 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:10 pm

PTFlea

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wprager wrote:And yet we were top-five in the league, and when Alfie went down for three weeks we continued fine without him. Alfie is and always will be Alfie, but he is not the be-all and end-all to this team like he used to be.
He was not a top-3 winger last season.

This year we have Spezza, Alfredsson, Michalek, Turris, Foligno, Silfverberg. We have Zibanejad, Stone, Noesen coming up. Getting a top-six would be great -- I'd have no problems with most of the ones mentioned (Nash, Parise, Penner). I just don't see the need for some moves suggested (like Hudler) and I disagree with the statement that the one, biggest need is a top-six forward.
I agree for the most part. We need a D-man desperately - and a good one. We also need a winger for Spezza though, it's time.

100 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:12 pm

PTFlea

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rooneypoo wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:Bryan Allen has no offense though, Garrison has a ~100 MPH shot.

So why did he score a total of 3 goals in the last 3 months of the season?

It's not that he's not a decent player, it's that you're going to have to massively overpay on dollar figure and term to get him, and he's no at all a sure thing. Pass, pass, pass.

Didn't you want a guy who could play D though? Let's say you're getting that guy who can block shots, hit and play PP1 with Karlsson. He might be streaky offensively, but give him a chance on this team and add another monster shot from the back end. I was so tired of seeing teams cover Karlsson like a blanket because they weren't scared of Kuba.

That said, I don't like the $$ rumours I'm hearing right now.

101 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:16 pm

rooneypoo

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wprager wrote:And yet we were top-five in the league, and when Alfie went down for three weeks we continued fine without him. Alfie is and always will be Alfie, but he is not the be-all and end-all to this team like he used to be.
He was not a top-3 winger last season.

This year we have Spezza, Alfredsson, Michalek, Turris, Foligno, Silfverberg. We have Zibanejad, Stone, Noesen coming up. Getting a top-six would be great -- I'd have no problems with most of the ones mentioned (Nash, Parise, Penner). I just don't see the need for some moves suggested (like Hudler) and I disagree with the statement that the one, biggest need is a top-six forward.

If Alfie wasn't a top 3 winger for us this year, then who was? Greening? Foligno? If that's the case, that speaks volumes about how badly we need to get some established top line talent on the wing.

As your project top 6, that's two legitimate top 6ers (Spezza and Michalek), a 40-year old who may or may not retire, an unestablished talent in Turris, a tweener at best with Foligno, and a rookie who has done absolutely nothing in the NHL to date.

I'm not talking about our greatest organizational need for just today, or next season. I'm talking about what we need for the health of the franchise for, oh, the next decade or so. We are paper thin on the wings and up front generally, in terms of established talent. I don't want to hear about what Zbad, Silfverberg, and/or Stone MIGHT become. Right now, they're prospects fighting for a chance to play in the NHL, and they have done nothing, nothing to compare with a guy like Alfie or Parise.

102 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:17 pm

rooneypoo

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SpezDispenser wrote:
wprager wrote:And yet we were top-five in the league, and when Alfie went down for three weeks we continued fine without him. Alfie is and always will be Alfie, but he is not the be-all and end-all to this team like he used to be.
He was not a top-3 winger last season.

This year we have Spezza, Alfredsson, Michalek, Turris, Foligno, Silfverberg. We have Zibanejad, Stone, Noesen coming up. Getting a top-six would be great -- I'd have no problems with most of the ones mentioned (Nash, Parise, Penner). I just don't see the need for some moves suggested (like Hudler) and I disagree with the statement that the one, biggest need is a top-six forward.
I agree for the most part. We need a D-man desperately - and a good one. We also need a winger for Spezza though, it's time.

Today, we need a Dman, or two. Long term, we need big, established talent up front, esp. on the wings. There's no debate on this. Spezza, Michalek, and Turris is not a legitimate top-6 in the NHL. Everybody else in the organization is a tweener or a prospect.

103 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:19 pm

PTFlea

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104 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:19 pm

wprager

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SpezDispenser wrote:
wprager wrote:And yet we were top-five in the league, and when Alfie went down for three weeks we continued fine without him. Alfie is and always will be Alfie, but he is not the be-all and end-all to this team like he used to be.
He was not a top-3 winger last season.

This year we have Spezza, Alfredsson, Michalek, Turris, Foligno, Silfverberg. We have Zibanejad, Stone, Noesen coming up. Getting a top-six would be great -- I'd have no problems with most of the ones mentioned (Nash, Parise, Penner). I just don't see the need for some moves suggested (like Hudler) and I disagree with the statement that the one, biggest need is a top-six forward.
I agree for the most part. We need a D-man desperately - and a good one. We also need a winger for Spezza though, it's time.

Don't disagree, and I said so in my previous post. A top-six would be great, I just don't think it's the #1 need. And, frankly, after we see how Silfverberg works out, how Turris progresses, and what Zibanejad and Stone can do in the AHL, it's not a guarantee that we will need to trade for or sign a top-six forward. There is a small chance we have all the top-six we need here already. Smile


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

105 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:19 pm

PTFlea

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106 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:26 pm

wprager

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rooneypoo wrote:
wprager wrote:And yet we were top-five in the league, and when Alfie went down for three weeks we continued fine without him. Alfie is and always will be Alfie, but he is not the be-all and end-all to this team like he used to be.
He was not a top-3 winger last season.

This year we have Spezza, Alfredsson, Michalek, Turris, Foligno, Silfverberg. We have Zibanejad, Stone, Noesen coming up. Getting a top-six would be great -- I'd have no problems with most of the ones mentioned (Nash, Parise, Penner). I just don't see the need for some moves suggested (like Hudler) and I disagree with the statement that the one, biggest need is a top-six forward.

If Alfie wasn't a top 3 winger for us this year, then who was? Greening? Foligno? If that's the case, that speaks volumes about how badly we need to get some established top line talent on the wing.

As your project top 6, that's two legitimate top 6ers (Spezza and Michalek), a 40-year old who may or may not retire, an unestablished talent in Turris, a tweener at best with Foligno, and a rookie who has done absolutely nothing in the NHL to date.

I'm not talking about our greatest organizational need for just today, or next season. I'm talking about what we need for the health of the franchise for, oh, the next decade or so. We are paper thin on the wings and up front generally, in terms of established talent. I don't want to hear about what Zbad, Silfverberg, and/or Stone MIGHT become. Right now, they're prospects fighting for a chance to play in the NHL, and they have done nothing, nothing to compare with a guy like Alfie or Parise.

By the way, what has Parise done, really? He's a .8 PPG player (granted, played in New Jersey) who doesn't elevate his play in the playoffs (down to 0.7 PPG pace). And his salary is higher than Spezza's. He's better value for the money than Nash, he is a better offensive player than Penner. I'd love to have him on my team.

All that said, it could very well be that the difference with him in the lineup the Sens are winning by 2-3 goals more than they did last year. But getting a right-handed defenseman to improve our PK will help us win more games or at least keep us in games longer and grab at least the loser point.


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

107 Re: Free Agency - Where Do They Go? on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:49 pm

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