NHL CBA Talk

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    Hoags
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:50 am

    NEELY wrote:
    Yah, everyone is saying that and I am sure the players know that but are they ignoring it all? I hope not.

    They're saying the same things they did last time. They're "united', they're "well informed'.

    Fehr has been going by the union playbook the whole time.

    - Try to win over public opinion against Bettman and the NHL (largely succeeded)
    - try and divide the owners (hasn't happened so far)
    - try and get the league to play with no CBA so they can strike (not gonna happen)
    - take legal action (done, will it do any good ? probably not)
    - hold out as long as possible (I refuse to believe they will hold out a full season, there is no way they do it again and many players have said they are not going to do that again)

    Only thing left is decertify and sue the league but that will probably get thrown out as a negotiation tactic.

    The players have very little leverage, they've been pulling out all the stops to try and maximize theirs but I think it's all for show as they cannot win, best thing would be to get the best possible deal.

    Fehr is trying to undo some of the things in the last CBA and that's not going to fly.

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    If the owners are reasonable and the players are smart, this should resolved with the players taking the NHL offer with the condition that existing contracts are honored.

    Their contracts have never really been "honored" in that sense, they always gave up a % to escrow but I think 5/7 years the NHL paid them back. They can either give up some now or give up an entire season and still accept the same offer like last time.
    Owners have seemed more reasonable and they backed down from their initial insane proposal. Fehr keeps proposing the same thing over and over. The NHL has also agreed to increase revenue sharing which is a big plus in my book. Players still want their cake and eat it too.


    Last edited by Hoags on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:54 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Hoags wrote:At some point they will lose more in salary than due to Bettman's offer.

    I hope they're not stupid enough to hold out for less money.

    If the owners are reasonable and the players are smart, this should resolved with the players taking the NHL offer with the condition that existing contracts are honored.

    Exactly. The NHL looks absolutely bush league by saying it doesn't want to honour their contracts. I agree with the players 100% there.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:01 am

    In that case why can't they just freeze the players at the current $1.8B or whatever it is and once that is less than 50% of HRR set it to 50% and let it grow as before ?

    Existing contracts are honored. Players take a wage freeze for a little while but their salaries have been massively increasing anyway.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:09 am

    Hoags wrote:In that case why can't they just freeze the players at the current $1.8B or whatever it is and once that is less than 50% of HRR set it to 50% and let it grow as before ?

    Existing contracts are honored. Players take a wage freeze for a little while but their salaries have been massively increasing anyway.

    This is 100% a pro player view and I 100% agree with it. That said, the NHL doesn't want to budge on it and they are totally wrong in doing so. On top of that, it's the NHL and the owners who put themselves into this mess and it's wrong in that regard too.

    What leverage or options do the players have though? Not a whole lot.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by DirtyDave on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:13 am

    Hoags wrote:In that case why can't they just freeze the players at the current $1.8B or whatever it is and once that is less than 50% of HRR set it to 50% and let it grow as before ?

    Existing contracts are honored. Players take a wage freeze for a little while but their salaries have been massively increasing anyway.


    Because that wasnt offered.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:20 am

    DirtyDave wrote:
    Hoags wrote:In that case why can't they just freeze the players at the current $1.8B or whatever it is and once that is less than 50% of HRR set it to 50% and let it grow as before ?

    Existing contracts are honored. Players take a wage freeze for a little while but their salaries have been massively increasing anyway.


    Because that wasnt offered.

    Well said, Double-D.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:21 am

    Yup. At some point though the players will have to make a choice, play in the NHL and suck it up or go play elsewhere.

    If the NHLPA wanted the ultimate leverage they would have held off on Crosby signing that huge deal and say "he will go to the KHL if things are not resolved". That would have been the ultimate trump card.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:22 am

    DirtyDave wrote:
    Because that wasnt offered.

    Well of course. It probably won't be because if league revenues go down, the owners still have to pay the same amount, and do not want to lose that "cost certainty".
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:23 am

    NEELY wrote:
    If the NHLPA wanted the ultimate leverage they would have held off on Crosby signing that huge deal and say "he will go to the KHL if things are not resolved". That would have been the ultimate trump card.

    Would he really play elsewhere considering no one will insure him against concussions ?
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:25 am

    Owners want to pay less. That is their "must have" so they will force some sort of rollback in there, someway, somehow...

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by DirtyDave on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:25 am

    Craig button added to list of twitter douche bags

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by DirtyDave on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:26 am

    Wonder if they factored in that eventually the Canadian dollar will drop.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:28 am

    Hoags wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    If the NHLPA wanted the ultimate leverage they would have held off on Crosby signing that huge deal and say "he will go to the KHL if things are not resolved". That would have been the ultimate trump card.

    Would he really play elsewhere considering no one will insure him against concussions ?

    No chance he will, I am saying if they thought that far ahead he wouldn't have resigned and the players could have used him as their leverage. "No deal? That's fine, Sid will be playing in the KHL for the foreseeable future". That would have got a deal done quick especially with Lemiuex as the owner.

    NHLPA isn't that smart though.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:30 am

    DirtyDave wrote:Wonder if they factored in that eventually the Canadian dollar will drop.

    They both know it and so does the rest of the world. NHLPA won't say it because it weakens their argument and the NHL won't say it because it will create uncertainty. The CDN is the white elephant in this along with the southern markets.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:34 am

    NEELY wrote:
    DirtyDave wrote:Wonder if they factored in that eventually the Canadian dollar will drop.

    They both know it and so does the rest of the world. NHLPA won't say it because it weakens their argument and the NHL won't say it because it will create uncertainty. The CDN is the white elephant in this along with the southern markets.

    I disagree with this part since the our national debt levels and deficit is on a declining trend vs. the opposite trend in the US. I've been saying this for years now and I'm right, as usual.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:42 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    DirtyDave wrote:Wonder if they factored in that eventually the Canadian dollar will drop.

    They both know it and so does the rest of the world. NHLPA won't say it because it weakens their argument and the NHL won't say it because it will create uncertainty. The CDN is the white elephant in this along with the southern markets.

    I disagree with this part since the our national debt levels and deficit is on a declining trend vs. the opposite trend in the US. I've been saying this for years now and I'm right, as usual.

    I know the feeling.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:43 am

    NEELY wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    DirtyDave wrote:Wonder if they factored in that eventually the Canadian dollar will drop.

    They both know it and so does the rest of the world. NHLPA won't say it because it weakens their argument and the NHL won't say it because it will create uncertainty. The CDN is the white elephant in this along with the southern markets.

    I disagree with this part since the our national debt levels and deficit is on a declining trend vs. the opposite trend in the US. I've been saying this for years now and I'm right, as usual.

    I know the feeling.

    Precisely.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:43 am

    Can contracts be signed after the CBA expires? I don't think so right? Essentially, no interaction between Owners/GMs and players.

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