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NHL CBA Talk

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256NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:08 pm

Hoags


All-Star
All-Star
I'm not sure there's a deal to be had.

When the NHL made the 1st offer, instead of a counterproposal arguing the points, Fehr came up with an offer that gives the players guaranteed raises while the owners might get something if the league revenues continue at 7%. It was nothing short of a partial rollback to the pre-lockout days and an attempt to divide the owners. Except for a few minor changes, he's entrenched in that viewpoint, much like the NHL won't let a union dictate how to run their business.

Fehr is like Goodenow, he's an idealist that believes unions should have a lot of power. He's not here to negotiate a deal, he's here for payback after the players lost the last round bigtime and I think he's filled the player's heads with enough water that if they hold out long enough and stay united they'll get what they want.

Unless Fehr gets removed, we might not see any compromise from the players, hence why the NHL is willing to cancel the WC and the season early on. They're just dragging things out, hoping for a split in the ownership.

257NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:13 pm

Cap'n Clutch


Co-Founder
Co-Founder
hemlock wrote:
Hoags wrote:Red Wings Senior VP cuts loose:

http://islandsportsnews.net/component/content/article/1-hockey/3443-one-on-one-with-jim-devellano-detroit-red-wings-senior-vp


"Each owner / team has a decision as to how they want to pay their players, as long as they are under the cap. Now Donald Fehr would have you believe by getting rid of the cap, the owners would make more money and that the sky is the limit, but trust me Scott, the owners would lose their *****. We've tried that. It doesn't work. There is just too much cost involved in running and owning a team."
"It's very complicated and way too much for the average Joe to understand, but having said that, I will tell you this: The owners can basically be viewed as the Ranch, and the players, and me included, are the cattle. The owners own the Ranch and allow the players to eat there. That's the way its always been and that the way it will be forever. And the owners simply aren't going to let a union push them around. It's not going to happen."

Wow

Good. The players are under the mass delusion that it's not only their right to play in the NHL, but that they should be able to dictate how the "boss" spends the business' income. If I was an owner, there isn't a chance in hell I would be letting the players tell me how to spend my money, who by the way, aren't nearly qualified to do so. This isn't to say that I am on the owners side, but I am most certainly not on the players side, since they are out to lunch.

I don't trust what the owner say about HRR and such, but I do think that without some sort of program that allows the have-nots of the league to benefit from higher league-wide revenue, there will continue to be an increasing gap between the rich and poor teams. The current system will eventually kill teams; plain and simple.

The cap floor needs to be lowered if not eliminated. Teams will spend, or find a way to be competitive on the cheap. If they don't, teams won't survive. The cap should only be in place to prevent the big spenders from getting too far away salary wise from the bottom feeders.

I don't go to an NHL game to see an owner. This is not like your average business where an employee is a dime a dozen. I don't think the players should dictate this situation so don't get me wrong.

258NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:42 pm

wprager


Administrator
Administrator
I go (when I do, which is rare) to cheer for my team. I'll be around long after Alfie and Spezza are gone. I'll still be watching when Kid Karlsson retires. My kids will be around even longer than that.

259NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:55 pm

Cap'n Clutch

Cap'n Clutch
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
I go to watch the team as well but you go to watch the quality of hockey too right?


_________________
"A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world."

- Unknown Author

260NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:01 am

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Cap'n Clutch wrote:I go to watch the team as well but you go to watch the quality of hockey too right?


I get excited at my son's house league C games. Frankly, sometimes watching NHL hockey in real-time is a bit too much, The players are too big, too fast for the rink size. Watching the replays in slow motion quite often adds to the game experience that I simply would not get live. My point is, I would lower my expectations a little -- eventually -- and still get the same level of enjoyment out of watching *my* team compete against other teams. And, in a weird way, if the speed of the players was ratcheted down a little bit I may actually find it even more enjoyable. As long as there is parity and my team has a good chance of winning if they try their best -- those are the required elements.

Put it another way. Crosby is the best player in the world; no-one dangles like Datsyuk. I've never seen either of them play live. I see them very little on TV. If that level of player suddenly was out of the game, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't skip a beat. I'd still enjoy the game. Am I clamoring for KHL games now? I have to admit I gave it a couple of passing thoughts -- mostly because I saw articles/polls asking "Would you watch it?" Sure, if it was on my TV and at a convenient time, I'd watch it. But I am not going out of my way to find streams and sneak out of the office early to watch.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

261NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:08 am

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Any good Lockout Trackers out there? This is one of the first ones to pop-up in a google search:
http://thehockeyhouse.net/chicago-blackhawks/nhl-player-lockout-tracker/

You can sort it on the NHL team the player is from and the Euro team they are going to. Wouldn't mind seeing one that sorts by the league they're going to. Would be interesting to sort on the players' cap hit, too, to see if it is really only the elite (it's not).

Anyhow, the count stands at 105. That's very roughly one out of every 7 NHLers, or (again, very roughly) 3-4 per team. And that's without the SEL taking any players -- so far. That's expected to change.

There are 5 Sens players on that list (including the not-so-elite Regin and Daugavins). Michalek is injured and looks like he will collect the first two-weeks' NHL salary before he is off the injured list, at which point he is expected to head to Europe. Turris, as well, is mulling over a temporary overseas address.

The Blues lead the league with 7 defectors. The Sens are tied for 2nd with the likes of the Bruins, Wings and Flyers. Good company, I guess.

Overall, and especially given that the SEL has not opened up its rinks, is the number higher than expected? We have not even canceled any regular season games. Players have not missed a single paycheck yet, but one in 7 NHLers have already signed on the dotted line, and many have already suited up with their new teams.

So, to quote Trinity, "Is this good for us, or bad for us?" On the one hand, once the doors close and more than half of the NHLPA is *truly* locked out, this could/should drive a wedge between those playing and those considering moving back in with their parents. On the other hand, if more than half find suitable roster spots in Europe, this just might go longer than anyone wants.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

262NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:19 pm

sandysensfan


Veteran
Veteran
Hoags wrote:I'm not sure there's a deal to be had.

When the NHL made the 1st offer, instead of a counterproposal arguing the points, Fehr came up with an offer that gives the players guaranteed raises while the owners might get something if the league revenues continue at 7%. It was nothing short of a partial rollback to the pre-lockout days and an attempt to divide the owners. Except for a few minor changes, he's entrenched in that viewpoint, much like the NHL won't let a union dictate how to run their business.

Fehr is like Goodenow, he's an idealist that believes unions should have a lot of power. He's not here to negotiate a deal, he's here for payback after the players lost the last round bigtime and I think he's filled the player's heads with enough water that if they hold out long enough and stay united they'll get what they want.

Unless Fehr gets removed, we might not see any compromise from the players, hence why the NHL is willing to cancel the WC and the season early on. They're just dragging things out, hoping for a split in the ownership.

The players did NOT lose the last CBA big time. The Owners got the salary cap to ensure parity & growth in the NHL... and that worked -- well other than a couple of spots. Sure the players gave up 24% but they got that back + 50% more on top of that. They got a lot of the other things as well.. shorter UFA, etc.

I'm getting sick and tired of hearing that from Fehr and the rest of the players... Their statement are inaccurate and they know it.

263NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:02 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Everyone thought they lost. I honestly don't know what the players thought, or think now. It's entirely possible that they were told that the deal was better than it looked for the players (which turned out to be true). Most players who were around back then are not voting members of the union now, so it probably matters very little what they were told before. Of course, we all know what they are being told now.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

264NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:54 pm

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
Modano was on Hockey Central @ Noon the other day and he was discussing the last lockout saying it wasn't worth it but Kypreos pointed out that had the players taken the offer they were given before the season was lost, they would have been much worse off. The deal they ended up with after the year lockout ended up better. And in the long run, they've ended up with soaring salaries.

Yeah, they lost initially with the kick in the teeth in the form of a 24% rollback and all the rule changes to "open up" the game... but in the long run, it ended up pretty damn good for the players.

265NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:29 pm

spader

spader
All-Star
All-Star
wprager wrote:Any good Lockout Trackers out there? This is one of the first ones to pop-up in a google search:
http://thehockeyhouse.net/chicago-blackhawks/nhl-player-lockout-tracker/

You can sort it on the NHL team the player is from and the Euro team they are going to. Wouldn't mind seeing one that sorts by the league they're going to. Would be interesting to sort on the players' cap hit, too, to see if it is really only the elite (it's not).

Anyhow, the count stands at 105. That's very roughly one out of every 7 NHLers, or (again, very roughly) 3-4 per team. And that's without the SEL taking any players -- so far. That's expected to change.

There are 5 Sens players on that list (including the not-so-elite Regin and Daugavins). Michalek is injured and looks like he will collect the first two-weeks' NHL salary before he is off the injured list, at which point he is expected to head to Europe. Turris, as well, is mulling over a temporary overseas address.

The Blues lead the league with 7 defectors. The Sens are tied for 2nd with the likes of the Bruins, Wings and Flyers. Good company, I guess.

Overall, and especially given that the SEL has not opened up its rinks, is the number higher than expected? We have not even canceled any regular season games. Players have not missed a single paycheck yet, but one in 7 NHLers have already signed on the dotted line, and many have already suited up with their new teams.

So, to quote Trinity, "Is this good for us, or bad for us?" On the one hand, once the doors close and more than half of the NHLPA is *truly* locked out, this could/should drive a wedge between those playing and those considering moving back in with their parents. On the other hand, if more than half find suitable roster spots in Europe, this just might go longer than anyone wants.

Bruins have six players going. We're still tied with the Flyers, Blue Jackets, Blackhawks, Red Wings, and Sharks though.

266NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:06 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Miscounted. Anyhow, those numbers will go up. Not saying the Sens will lead the league or anything, but they still have Turris and Michalek, and I wonder if Anderson will get the itch. He's got little one at home and I'm not sure how much he's put away for that rainy season. He'll just add back that extra 's' to his name-plate and be a shoe-in for the SEL when they open up the doors.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

267NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:35 am

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
NHL and NHLPA are meeting today...

But it ain't about CBA talk...

It's to finalize the HRR for last season.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405845

Think they'll squeeze in some CBA talk? Yeah, me neither.

268NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:59 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod
I honestly stopped caring. Loving NCAA football.

269NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:13 am

SeawaySensFan

SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
NEELY wrote:I honestly stopped caring. Loving NCAA football.

Do you think LeMikael Jefferson will win the Theisman?

270NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:40 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod
SeawaySensFan wrote:
NEELY wrote:I honestly stopped caring. Loving NCAA football.

Do you think LeMikael Jefferson will win the Theisman?

Good as shot as JeJerom Washington

271NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:44 am

SeawaySensFan

SeawaySensFan
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
NEELY wrote:
SeawaySensFan wrote:
NEELY wrote:I honestly stopped caring. Loving NCAA football.

Do you think LeMikael Jefferson will win the Theisman?

Good as shot as JeJerom Washington

Either way, I think College State can go ALL THE WAY this year.

272NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:10 am

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
IRISH!!!!

273NHL CBA Talk - Page 18 Empty Re: NHL CBA Talk on Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:11 am

NEELY


Mod
Mod
shabbs wrote:IRISH!!!!

Let me know when they beat someone note worthy.

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