NHL CBA Talk

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    SeawaySensFan
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:03 am

    NEELY wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Hoags wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    Meh, not buying it. Right now it's all talk and BS from both sides.

    Naturally, everything the PA has been doing so far has been all about getting leverage, since they have very little.

    Fehr has brought up the cap many times and made no secret that he hates the concept, it wouldn't surprise me if he does bring it up.

    They need to fix the revenue imbalance in the league or we're going to see this Dung happen every few years when a new CBA has to be negotiated.

    If there is balance in that regard, say 50-50, this same shyte could just as well happen to get it to 70 - 30.

    Oh it will. 2 owners run the league, that's it. Jacobs and Snyder and then it's everyone else. They have so much pull it isn't funny.

    Well said, NEELY.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:08 am

    I'd figure Dolan is a big shot in the room as well no ?

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:16 am

    Jacobs and Snyder have been around the game and owned their team for 40 plus years, no one else touches that. Money is one thing, history is another.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:37 pm

    Hoags wrote:
    Bettman will get his 50/50 (approx.) split, it will probably be phased in gradually to minimize impact to the players.

    The question is what will he give up to get it ? Lowered UFA requirements ? Some weakening of the cap (like that trading cap space idea ?). They are not going to give up linking player salaries to HRR.

    You can't just take something from the players without giving something to them in return.

    If it gets to 50/50 he has already given up the 7% from the initial 43% offer, reduced salary cap (either phased in slowly or no rollback and just let revenues catch up until it's 50/50 -- in this case he will push for 47-49% for sure), plus no change to the HRR definition.

    What makes you think he has to "give up" anything else?


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:40 pm

    Hoags wrote:
    My prediction: the NHL owners are going to regret the lockout when Fehr pulls the salary cap off the table.

    https://twitter.com/StuSiegel/status/247693176670928896

    Former owner/CEO of the Panthers

    My prediction: the NHLPA is going to regret this move when the NHL decides to go with replacement players.


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:45 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Hoags wrote:
    My prediction: the NHL owners are going to regret the lockout when Fehr pulls the salary cap off the table.

    https://twitter.com/StuSiegel/status/247693176670928896

    Former owner/CEO of the Panthers

    My prediction: the NHLPA is going to regret this move when the NHL decides to go with replacement players.

    Can't. Players are locked out, it isn't a strike.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:46 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Hoags wrote:
    My prediction: the NHL owners are going to regret the lockout when Fehr pulls the salary cap off the table.

    https://twitter.com/StuSiegel/status/247693176670928896

    Former owner/CEO of the Panthers

    My prediction: the NHLPA is going to regret this move when the NHL decides to go with replacement players.

    Can't. Players are locked out, it isn't a strike.

    Precisely, NEELY.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:49 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    My prediction: the NHLPA is going to regret this move when the NHL decides to go with replacement players.

    Can't. Players are locked out, it isn't a strike.

    They talked about that during the last lockout. There is no CBA in place, and the league can argue that the NHLPA is not negotiating in good faith, while their membership is headed to competing leagues to continue getting paid.

    The NHL locked them out because they don't have a CBA in place and because there s a legitimate reason to suspect that the NHLPA would stage a strike at the most inconvenient time if they were allowed to play without a CBA in place.

    If the players can find a replacement league, why can't the league find replacement players? If there is no CBA governing either side's actions, what is to stop this one?


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:51 pm

    wprager wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    My prediction: the NHLPA is going to regret this move when the NHL decides to go with replacement players.

    Can't. Players are locked out, it isn't a strike.

    They talked about that during the last lockout. There is no CBA in place, and the league can argue that the NHLPA is not negotiating in good faith, while their membership is headed to competing leagues to continue getting paid.

    The NHL locked them out because they don't have a CBA in place and because there s a legitimate reason to suspect that the NHLPA would stage a strike at the most inconvenient time if they were allowed to play without a CBA in place.

    If the players can find a replacement league, why can't the league find replacement players? If there is no CBA governing either side's actions, what is to stop this one?

    No one is going to pay to see replacement players. There are 10 different leagues and the best of the rest will be playing in those. No chance it will work in the NHL, none. Baseball and football have no other leagues.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:02 pm

    Who needs the weaker teams more -- the NHL or the NHLPA? If Phoenix, Florida, Columbus, New Jersey, Islanders, etc. were gone those owners would stop losing money. The richer teams would not have to spend as much of their profit to finance those teams. If the number of teams gone is kept small then they would not have to give up any games, either.

    The NHLPA would lose membership to the tune of 21-23 players for each team gone.

    So you tell me, who needs those weak market teams more -- the owners or the players? And who should, then, pick up the tab?


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:02 pm

    Still can't help but be reminded how disfunctional the NHLPA really is:

    http://www.nesn.com/2009/08/kelly-firing-proves-nhlpa-will-never-learn.html

    Even Cox writes an intelligent article on it (a rarity for him):
    http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1257428--nhl-nhlpa-relationship-50-shades-of-nasty-cox

    And I doubt Fehr has changed much.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:06 pm

    Hoags wrote:Still can't help but be reminded how disfunctional the NHLPA really is:

    http://www.nesn.com/2009/08/kelly-firing-proves-nhlpa-will-never-learn.html

    Even Cox writes an intelligent article on it (a rarity for him):
    http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1257428--nhl-nhlpa-relationship-50-shades-of-nasty-cox

    And I doubt Fehr has changed much.

    Best line from the Cox article:

    Fehr did get around to bringing in his brother and hiring Richard Rodier, the same fellow who delighted in antagonizing the NHL while he was working for Jim Balsillie.

    Laugh1 Laughing3


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:21 pm

    so much BS right now it's impossible to read through it all.

    They either play hockey or they don't, simple as that. If not, I hope the league just folds because the leadership on both sides is an absolute joke and I am just sick of it all.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:38 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    shabbs wrote:BREAKING NEWS!!!!!

    Nothing new to report.

    When they start cancelling pre-season games that's when the talks will get serious. I refuse to believe both sides (especially the NHL) don't know how much damage this will cause for the game and the NHL itself.

    The NHLPA will be in no hurry to get a deal done. SEL2 is allowing NHL players to sign contracts with an out clause... they expect the SEL to follow.

    A lot of players will go to Sweden to play.

    They will not be interested in getting the NHL back. They don't give a damn about the workers who are being laid off or having their wages cut back.. and they don't give a damn about the fans.

    They will go to Europe to play for less than the NHL offered them.

    This lockout at MINIMUM will be the entire NHL season... We may be looking at 2 years. That's what Fehr first told the union membership.. be prepared for 2 yrs out.

    I fear the Ottawa Senators will no longer exist along with quite a few other teams..
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:40 pm

    NEELY wrote:so much BS right now it's impossible to read through it all.

    They either play hockey or they don't, simple as that. If not, I hope the league just folds because the leadership on both sides is an absolute joke and I am just sick of it all.

    Yeah you can't even read an article without wondering what's behind it. I read the Cox article and I couldn't even take it seriously, my immediate reaction was "That Cox is a shill for the NHL." Same goes for anyone who writes anything that seems favourable to the PA.

    The only "real" news to come out of this is when paragraphs are written about different team employees that are missing cheques and the effects that it will have had, or charities cancelling events linked to NHL teams. The rest of it all BS as far as I'm concerned. It really pisses me off. Beer
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:45 pm

    sandysensfan wrote:
    The NHLPA will be in no hurry to get a deal done. SEL2 is allowing NHL players to sign contracts with an out clause... they expect the SEL to follow.

    A lot of players will go to Sweden to play.

    They will not be interested in getting the NHL back. They don't give a damn about the workers who are being laid off or having their wages cut back.. and they don't give a damn about the fans.

    They will go to Europe to play for less than the NHL offered them.

    This lockout at MINIMUM will be the entire NHL season... We may be looking at 2 years. That's what Fehr first told the union membership.. be prepared for 2 yrs out.

    I fear the Ottawa Senators will no longer exist along with quite a few other teams..

    NHLPA is like 700 members, no way anywhere near that many find jobs overseas. The amount of players who will be out of a job with no income greatly outnumbers the rich ones who can find work, they can outvote them if it comes to that. So much for player unity. I refuse to believe they'll be stupid enough to lose another year, especially if Fehr wants to go on a crusade against the salary cap at their expense.

    And I can't find any info that Fehr said they'll need to sit out 2 years, Goodenow said that years ago and the union caved in a year anyway.

    Considering their desperate anti-NHL PR campaign I think they'll be more desperate sooner than the NHL.

    Cox's article isn't too far off the mark. The union is dysfunctional and corrupt as noted by their history, there's never been anything but animosity between the PA and the NHL and Fehr isn't helping one bit.

    There is plenty of players from the last lockout still around, I refuse to believe they'll sit out an entire season AGAIN for nothing.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:17 pm

    From the article. This is on Penny, Pink, Lindros, Hargrove:

    These guys could really care less about whether the game and the NHL take another PR hit with a work stoppage, one source told Murphys Law on Sunday. Theyre more concerned with making money. They had a cozy setup before Kelly came in and found out what was going on. He has done his best to clean things up and distance the union from its troubled past. Unfortunately, part of that cleaning up shouldve been a housecleaning -- because now these guys are conspiring against him. This is simply crazy. This same source also said that the majority of the board was unaware of this proposal to oust Kelly until a story by TSNs Darren Dreger on Thursday night.

    Kelly had ordered an audit of the NHLPA books and found out that Lindros and Penny were spending millions. Kelly forced Lindros to resign, at the time. Now Lindros is back.


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:24 pm

    Lindros is the biggest POS to ever play the game of hockey. Never a more self indulged piece of trash to lace up skates. I would actually have loved to been one of the guys that gave him a concussion.

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