NHL CBA Talk

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    shabbs
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:27 am

    wprager wrote:Not to minimize the impact of anyone losing his/her job, but this was known to be coming for quite a while and, sorry, it's a hell of a lot easier to find a replacement job when you're selling tickets, collecting parking fees, doing some other administrative duties than it is in some other fields. High tech, for instance, when the going is good, anyone can get a job; then it's not, everything is against you:
    - you're too old
    - you're too experienced
    - you don't have specific experience we want
    - you're probably overqualified so we're not going to give you a chance to leave at the first opportunity
    - you don't know our product; we'd prefer to promote from within
    - you're not currently employed so there must be something wrong with you

    The Sens did give their staff a month's notice that this would happen if there was a lockout, so they at least had a chance to line something else up.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:29 am

    shabbs wrote:NHL and NHLPA have talks scheduled for tomorrow... if we look back at the last lockout, I think it took 3 months for them to talk again once the players were locked out... so a positive sign at least...

    I still don't think this is going to be as long or as bad as people are saying. It's all crying foul, threatening this, saying that, "it's unfair to us", so on and on. Same thing happened in the NFL.

    I would bet they play an 82 game schedule which I am fine with even if they start a little late.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:06 am

    shabbs wrote:
    It seems to come down to pure greed by the owners. I don't care if the rev sharing percentages are out of line with the rest of the leagues, profits are way up, revenue is way up... everything is up!
    Irritating.

    Yes it is pure greed on the owners. Or as Neely puts it Jacobs and Snider want to line their pockets some more.

    The Name Dropper on Team 1200 used the Predators as an example of a franchise that wants the season to start as they feel they're close to finally breaking even and establishing themselves in their market.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:46 am

    This lockout will hurt a lot of team and destroy the NHL as we know if they don't play 82 games. Nashville is actually starting to come around a little and the corporate money is starting to come in.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hobiesens on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:10 am

    NEELY wrote:
    shabbs wrote:NHL and NHLPA have talks scheduled for tomorrow... if we look back at the last lockout, I think it took 3 months for them to talk again once the players were locked out... so a positive sign at least...

    I still don't think this is going to be as long or as bad as people are saying. It's all crying foul, threatening this, saying that, "it's unfair to us", so on and on. Same thing happened in the NFL.

    I would bet they play an 82 game schedule which I am fine with even if they start a little late.

    I'm predicting they are playing by the third week in November. Maybe we should get a poll?

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:11 am

    Hobiesens wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    shabbs wrote:NHL and NHLPA have talks scheduled for tomorrow... if we look back at the last lockout, I think it took 3 months for them to talk again once the players were locked out... so a positive sign at least...

    I still don't think this is going to be as long or as bad as people are saying. It's all crying foul, threatening this, saying that, "it's unfair to us", so on and on. Same thing happened in the NFL.

    I would bet they play an 82 game schedule which I am fine with even if they start a little late.

    I'm predicting they are playing by the third week in November. Maybe we should get a poll?

    I think they cancel a week of pre-season and start the season (somewhat) on time.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:22 am

    NEELY wrote:
    Hobiesens wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    shabbs wrote:NHL and NHLPA have talks scheduled for tomorrow... if we look back at the last lockout, I think it took 3 months for them to talk again once the players were locked out... so a positive sign at least...

    I still don't think this is going to be as long or as bad as people are saying. It's all crying foul, threatening this, saying that, "it's unfair to us", so on and on. Same thing happened in the NFL.

    I would bet they play an 82 game schedule which I am fine with even if they start a little late.

    I'm predicting they are playing by the third week in November. Maybe we should get a poll?

    I think they cancel a week of pre-season and start the season (somewhat) on time.

    Bold prediction, NEELY.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:27 am

    I don't see how they can resolve this anytime soon.

    NHL wants an immediate, significant cut to player salaries.

    NHLPA does not, at best they can give up or limit future raises but current salaries cannot be reduced.

    They seem to be on the same page with regards to revenue sharing and other issues are probably minor stumbling blocks (like UFA, arbitration etc.)

    I don't know, right now it sounds like they're entrenched and waiting for the either side to cave in. I think either side thinks the other will not let the entire season be cancelled over this so they'll get what they want around December.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:32 am

    Hoags wrote:I don't see how they can resolve this anytime soon.

    NHL wants an immediate, significant cut to player salaries.

    NHLPA does not, at best they can give up or limit future raises but current salaries cannot be reduced.

    They seem to be on the same page with regards to revenue sharing and other issues are probably minor stumbling blocks (like UFA, arbitration etc.)

    I don't know, right now it sounds like they're entrenched and waiting for the either side to cave in. I think either side thinks the other will not let the entire season be cancelled over this so they'll get what they want around December.

    Your observations are at once pessimistic, yet realistic, Hoags. I will monitor the situation and see if your prediction comes to pass.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:38 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Your observations are at once pessimistic, yet realistic, Hoags. I will monitor the situation and see if your prediction comes to pass.

    Well I ultimately believe none of this is big enough to lose a season over. It's not like last time where Bettman had to wait until Goodenow cracked and was disposed of because there was no other way he'd get the cap in.

    The really nasty part is the owners signing all these contracts recently and expecting they could get a significant rollback and not have to pay that much. That's just beyond shady.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:42 am

    Where this can go off the rails is if the NHLPA changes their demands and looks to get rid of the cap entirely. That would be a big reset.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:45 am

    shabbs wrote:Where this can go off the rails is if the NHLPA changes their demands and looks to get rid of the cap entirely. That would be a big reset.

    I don't think it will get that far. Another indicator that the lockout may be a short one is Craig Leipold is evidently offering 10 percent interest to fans who choose to leave their season ticket money with the team rather than take a refund. That's a lotta cake.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:46 am

    Hoags wrote:I don't see how they can resolve this anytime soon.

    NHL wants an immediate, significant cut to player salaries.

    NHLPA does not, at best they can give up or limit future raises but current salaries cannot be reduced.

    They seem to be on the same page with regards to revenue sharing and other issues are probably minor stumbling blocks (like UFA, arbitration etc.)

    I don't know, right now it sounds like they're entrenched and waiting for the either side to cave in. I think either side thinks the other will not let the entire season be cancelled over this so they'll get what they want around December.

    Not sure I am buying it. They want a reduction for sure but they can do that by lowering the cap and asking for money on contracts that have already been agreed to.

    They will get down to the 50% number I am sure but it won't be with roll backs. Either way, I don't think the NHL or the PA is dumb enough to lockout out the players for an extended period of time. Too much on the line right now.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:46 am

    shabbs wrote:Where this can go off the rails is if the NHLPA changes their demands and looks to get rid of the cap entirely. That would be a big reset.

    Wouldn't see the game again for 2, 3 years... at least in North America.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:52 am

    NEELY wrote:
    Hoags wrote:I don't see how they can resolve this anytime soon.

    NHL wants an immediate, significant cut to player salaries.

    NHLPA does not, at best they can give up or limit future raises but current salaries cannot be reduced.

    They seem to be on the same page with regards to revenue sharing and other issues are probably minor stumbling blocks (like UFA, arbitration etc.)

    I don't know, right now it sounds like they're entrenched and waiting for the either side to cave in. I think either side thinks the other will not let the entire season be cancelled over this so they'll get what they want around December.

    Not sure I am buying it. They want a reduction for sure but they can do that by lowering the cap and asking for money on contracts that have already been agreed to.

    They will get down to the 50% number I am sure but it won't be with roll backs. Either way, I don't think the NHL or the PA is dumb enough to lockout out the players for an extended period of time. Too much on the line right now.

    I believe that the NHLFA should be at the bargaining table to bring the two parties together and end this nonsense.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:55 am

    the NHLFA is the biggest factor, no question. That's why there's a petition!
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:57 am

    NEELY wrote:
    Not sure I am buying it. They want a reduction for sure but they can do that by lowering the cap and asking for money on contracts that have already been agreed to.

    They will get down to the 50% number I am sure but it won't be with roll backs. Either way, I don't think the NHL or the PA is dumb enough to lockout out the players for an extended period of time. Too much on the line right now.

    It's not about the cap, it's about the revenue split. The players only get 57%, they give up a percentage to escrow and they get it back in October if their total payout was less than 57%.

    It is a rollback, the NHL wants to use escrow to take more out of their salary which they won't get back because the split will be 50%. If revenues continue to grow the players will lose less.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:04 am

    Hoags wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    Not sure I am buying it. They want a reduction for sure but they can do that by lowering the cap and asking for money on contracts that have already been agreed to.

    They will get down to the 50% number I am sure but it won't be with roll backs. Either way, I don't think the NHL or the PA is dumb enough to lockout out the players for an extended period of time. Too much on the line right now.

    It's not about the cap, it's about the revenue split. The players only get 57%, they give up a percentage to escrow and they get it back in October if their total payout was less than 57%.

    It is a rollback, the NHL wants to use escrow to take more out of their salary which they won't get back because the split will be 50%. If revenues continue to grow the players will lose less.

    I'm not sure how this all works, I'm def not an economist by any stretch but there is a middle ground I believe both will find. 1 billion dollars over 5, 6 years in a 3.3 billions dollar annual business is not large in the grand scheme of things.

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