NHL CBA Talk

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    wprager
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:05 pm

    Big Ev wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:
    Also to you BigEv the real question here is what would Sam The Record Man have thought were he still alive today?

    I don't understand what you're referring to or asking me.

    He keeps using you. I do not think you are who he thinks you are.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:06 pm

    shabbs wrote:PA: "Let's meet, but we're not going to negotiate using your last proposal, or agree to any conditions, or submit a new proposal."

    NHL: "What is the point of meeting then?"

    Bah.

    THAT DALY, HE'S A BEAUTY! SHOOTS FROM THE LIP I TELL YA.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by dennycrane on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:14 pm

    Melnyk will take an absolute beating if Alfie retires because of a lost season.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:37 pm

    dennycrane wrote:Melnyk will take an absolute beating if Alfie retires because of a lost season.

    The players are just as responsible. Melnyk isn't even in on discussions.. and won't have a vote to accept an offer from the NHLPA...

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:41 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    shabbs wrote:Heh. Nothing's mutual in these shenanigans! Wink

    Big roadblock there!

    Edit: Looks like I spoke to soon... Various reports have the new CBA agreed to, in principle, subject to setting the profit split on "Game On" merchandise...

    more to come

    The various reports were wrong:

    Some tweets on lockout:

    @DarrenDreger: NHL remains firm, willing to negotiate with the PA by only working off NHL offer tabled last Tues. NHL wants next meeting to be an end pt.

    @DarrenDreger: When asked if the CBA negotiation is about to go into a deep freeze, B. Daly said "I suspect so. Back to the drawing board. Unfortunate."

    @DarrenDreger: The union has offered to meet, but, unless PA is willing to work off NHL's offer, Daly says there's no reason to meet.

    ======================================

    It doesn't look like there will be an 82 game schedule this season... question is will there be a season at all.

    Both sides will realize when this league does get back to playing, the revenue they will be splitting will have dropped significantly and they have no one to blame but themselves.

    Greed pure greed. Now let's see how angry the fans really get when talks break off for a very long time.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:17 am

    dennycrane wrote:Melnyk will take an absolute beating if Alfie retires because of a lost season.

    It will keep me out of Scotia Bank place for years. Very few times in the history of sports is one player bigger than the team and Alfi is. If we have seen his last game and this is the way he goes out I won't pay until a new CBA comes and goes. I think it disgusting what the owners and players have done to our game.

    The Alfi thing will be the knock out blow.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:37 am

    Thing is, no-one cares about Alfie outside of Ottawa, and even here, I don't think you will find yourself in the majority. Sure, people will miss seeing #11 on the ice, but they'll still have #19 and #65, and newcomers like #93 and #33 to cheer on. I hardly ever spend money on tickets, so my "vote" means nothing. But I know a few regular season ticket holders and I doubt many of them would cancel just because we didn't get to see Alfie's swan song, farewell tour.

    Also, in general, hockey arenas in the big markets will still be getting their sellouts. Bubble places, though, will likely join the likes of Phoenix, Columbus, NYI/NJ, Dallas, etc. Revenues will drop, for sure. Escrow payments will be huge.

    Maybe they should play the next season under existing CBA rules while working on a deal. In the off-season the players would probably prefer a hard cap to one that is tied to revenues. They want guaranteed contracts? Well, then, forget about even pretending to be partners. Hard cap going up with the rate of inflation, and re-evaluated every 5 years (take 5 year average revenues to determine value).


    Last edited by wprager on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:58 am

    wprager wrote:Thing is, no-one cares about Alfie outside of Ottawa, and even here, I don't think you will find yourself in the majority. Sure, people will miss seeing #11 on the ice, but they'll still have #19 and #61, and newcomers like #93 and #33 to cheer on. I hardly ever spend money on tickets, so my "vote" means nothing. But I know a few regular season ticket holders and I doubt many of them would cancel just because we didn't get to see Alfie's swan song, farewell tour.

    Also, in general, hockey arenas in the big markets will still be getting their sellouts. Bubble places, though, will likely join the likes of Phoenix, Columbus, NYI/NJ, Dallas, etc. Revenues will drop, for sure. Escrow payments will be huge.

    Maybe they should play the next season under existing CBA rules while working on a deal. In the off-season the players would probably prefer a hard cap to one that is tied to revenues. They want guaranteed contracts? Well, then, forget about even pretending to be partners. Hard cap going up with the rate of inflation, and re-evaluated every 5 years (take 5 year average revenues to determine value).

    I'm ok with that, I rarely am.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:34 am

    It would be a travesty for Sens fans if this was how it all ended for Alfie. A freaking lockout over money and nothing but money. It would be a damn shame. Hopefully it does not come to that and we still end up with a shortened season featuring The Alfie. Until the season is officially cancelled, I'll hold on that that hope.



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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:40 am

    shabbs wrote:It would be a travesty for Sens fans if this was how it all ended for Alfie. A freaking lockout over money and nothing but money. It would be a damn shame. Hopefully it does not come to that and we still end up with a shortened season featuring The Alfie. Until the season is officially cancelled, I'll hold on that that hope.



    Only game I will go to this year will be Alfi's last at home, that's it... if the season happens.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:53 am

    shabbs wrote:It would be a travesty for Sens fans if this was how it all ended for Alfie. A freaking lockout over money and nothing but money. It would be a damn shame. Hopefully it does not come to that and we still end up with a shortened season featuring The Alfie. Until the season is officially cancelled, I'll hold on that that hope.

    As much as I like and admire Daniel Alfredsson, as many times as I've posted a "Prrrraise Alfie!" or the many, MANY posts in the "appreciation" thread, or etc. etc. -- he is still just one player, and he is not bigger than the game. I've seen Gretzky and Lemieux live in their primes, I've watched Tretiak and Yakushev and Kharlamov (actually "met" him once -- my dad pointed him out across a crowded room) and the rest of the old CCCP. Age gives you a certain perspective.

    Would it be monumentally sad if Alfie's last season is canceled? Of course! But hockey -- when it returns -- will still be hockey, even if #11 is up in the rafters instead of down on the ice. And, surely, you cannot expect a $3+B business, or 700+ professional players to put aside their differences just so that one player can have his swan song?

    Messier was 11 games shy of Gordie Howe's record of 1767 games played when the last lockout started, and he announced his retirement the following September. Was there any outcry then? Same should happen to Alfie. He can still play, if he wants to. If he doesn't, I don't think he'll be retiring just shy of some monumental record.

    I'm not suggesting that Ottawa fans shouldn't be pissed off about it, just put it in perspective.


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:58 am

    wprager wrote:
    shabbs wrote:It would be a travesty for Sens fans if this was how it all ended for Alfie. A freaking lockout over money and nothing but money. It would be a damn shame. Hopefully it does not come to that and we still end up with a shortened season featuring The Alfie. Until the season is officially cancelled, I'll hold on that that hope.

    As much as I like and admire Daniel Alfredsson, as many times as I've posted a "Prrrraise Alfie!" or the many, MANY posts in the "appreciation" thread, or etc. etc. -- he is still just one player, and he is not bigger than the game. I've seen Gretzky and Lemieux live in their primes, I've watched Tretiak and Yakushev and Kharlamov (actually "met" him once -- my dad pointed him out across a crowded room) and the rest of the old CCCP. Age gives you a certain perspective.

    Would it be monumentally sad if Alfie's last season is canceled? Of course! But hockey -- when it returns -- will still be hockey, even if #11 is up in the rafters instead of down on the ice. And, surely, you cannot expect a $3+B business, or 700+ professional players to put aside their differences just so that one player can have his swan song?

    Messier was 11 games shy of Gordie Howe's record of 1767 games played when the last lockout started, and he announced his retirement the following September. Was there any outcry then? Same should happen to Alfie. He can still play, if he wants to. If he doesn't, I don't think he'll be retiring just shy of some monumental record.

    I'm not suggesting that Ottawa fans shouldn't be pissed off about it, just put it in perspective.

    BANNED.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:06 am

    wprager wrote:
    shabbs wrote:It would be a travesty for Sens fans if this was how it all ended for Alfie. A freaking lockout over money and nothing but money. It would be a damn shame. Hopefully it does not come to that and we still end up with a shortened season featuring The Alfie. Until the season is officially cancelled, I'll hold on that that hope.

    As much as I like and admire Daniel Alfredsson, as many times as I've posted a "Prrrraise Alfie!" or the many, MANY posts in the "appreciation" thread, or etc. etc. -- he is still just one player, and he is not bigger than the game. I've seen Gretzky and Lemieux live in their primes, I've watched Tretiak and Yakushev and Kharlamov (actually "met" him once -- my dad pointed him out across a crowded room) and the rest of the old CCCP. Age gives you a certain perspective.

    Would it be monumentally sad if Alfie's last season is canceled? Of course! But hockey -- when it returns -- will still be hockey, even if #11 is up in the rafters instead of down on the ice. And, surely, you cannot expect a $3+B business, or 700+ professional players to put aside their differences just so that one player can have his swan song?

    Messier was 11 games shy of Gordie Howe's record of 1767 games played when the last lockout started, and he announced his retirement the following September. Was there any outcry then? Same should happen to Alfie. He can still play, if he wants to. If he doesn't, I don't think he'll be retiring just shy of some monumental record.

    I'm not suggesting that Ottawa fans shouldn't be pissed off about it, just put it in perspective.

    Not bigger than the game but he's bigger than the Sens. Only reason I even went to games when the rest of the team (aside from Alfi and Phillips) was out on the town, banging broads and bumping rails.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:06 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    shabbs wrote:It would be a travesty for Sens fans if this was how it all ended for Alfie. A freaking lockout over money and nothing but money. It would be a damn shame. Hopefully it does not come to that and we still end up with a shortened season featuring The Alfie. Until the season is officially cancelled, I'll hold on that that hope.

    As much as I like and admire Daniel Alfredsson, as many times as I've posted a "Prrrraise Alfie!" or the many, MANY posts in the "appreciation" thread, or etc. etc. -- he is still just one player, and he is not bigger than the game. I've seen Gretzky and Lemieux live in their primes, I've watched Tretiak and Yakushev and Kharlamov (actually "met" him once -- my dad pointed him out across a crowded room) and the rest of the old CCCP. Age gives you a certain perspective.

    Would it be monumentally sad if Alfie's last season is canceled? Of course! But hockey -- when it returns -- will still be hockey, even if #11 is up in the rafters instead of down on the ice. And, surely, you cannot expect a $3+B business, or 700+ professional players to put aside their differences just so that one player can have his swan song?

    Messier was 11 games shy of Gordie Howe's record of 1767 games played when the last lockout started, and he announced his retirement the following September. Was there any outcry then? Same should happen to Alfie. He can still play, if he wants to. If he doesn't, I don't think he'll be retiring just shy of some monumental record.

    I'm not suggesting that Ottawa fans shouldn't be pissed off about it, just put it in perspective.

    BANNED.
    Heh. Methinks Prager was over dramatizing my post. Point is: As Sens fans, we'll all be very sad if that is the case. Outside of the Sens universe, people most likely won't give it much thought, if any at all. Lots of careers will come to an end if the season is lost. The last lockout saw some 200 players not return I believe. Yes, I do agree that no one player is bigger than the game and hockey will continue.

    With that said...

    ALL PRAISE ALFIE!!!!
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:21 am

    NEELY wrote:

    Not bigger than the game but he's bigger than the Sens. Only reason I even went to games when the rest of the team (aside from Alfi and Phillips) was out on the town, banging broads and bumping rails.


    I think that's a reasonable statement.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:25 am

    sandysensfan wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    shabbs wrote:Heh. Nothing's mutual in these shenanigans! Wink

    Big roadblock there!

    Edit: Looks like I spoke to soon... Various reports have the new CBA agreed to, in principle, subject to setting the profit split on "Game On" merchandise...

    more to come

    The various reports were wrong:

    Some tweets on lockout:

    @DarrenDreger: NHL remains firm, willing to negotiate with the PA by only working off NHL offer tabled last Tues. NHL wants next meeting to be an end pt.

    @DarrenDreger: When asked if the CBA negotiation is about to go into a deep freeze, B. Daly said "I suspect so. Back to the drawing board. Unfortunate."

    @DarrenDreger: The union has offered to meet, but, unless PA is willing to work off NHL's offer, Daly says there's no reason to meet.

    ======================================

    It doesn't look like there will be an 82 game schedule this season... question is will there be a season at all.

    Both sides will realize when this league does get back to playing, the revenue they will be splitting will have dropped significantly and they have no one to blame but themselves.

    Greed pure greed. Now let's see how angry the fans really get when talks break off for a very long time.

    I stand by my sources. Dreger is just a mouthpiece and a shill who is only marginally more informative than Gino "Useless" Reda.

    The windfall from "Game On" t-shirts, caps, coffee mugs, bumper stickers, etc. is too rich for either side to ignore.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:31 am

    So, the NHL refuses to meet unless there's a new proposal or the NHLPA wants to discuss the NHL's proposal.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/10/24/nhl_cba_labour_talks_nhlpa_request_to_meet_denied/

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408009

    This is now a standoff. The next move will be a blink.

    Maybe the NHLPA will lob another proposal the NHL's way... but I doubt it after the last three were knocked down faster than you can say Jeremy Roenick. NHL has said "this is it" barring some minor tweaks.

    Bah.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:32 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    NEELY wrote:

    Not bigger than the game but he's bigger than the Sens. Only reason I even went to games when the rest of the team (aside from Alfi and Phillips) was out on the town, banging broads and bumping rails.


    I think that's a reasonable statement.

    It's true, Alfi has his named chanted more at the games then the Sens do for the most part. Sometimes players are bigger than the teams they play on, never bigger than the game itself though. At this point, the only thing I care about is seeing Alfi play his last game and being there live for it despite my personal feelings on what is happening in the NHL now. I won't rob myself of something that I know will be incredibly special and something I've been part of since I was 10 or 11.

    Ive been there for all of his biggest moments and won't miss this one either... if the NHL actually starts up. If they rob me of this event I won't be in an NHL arena for a very, very long time.

    I was a bigger fan of Alfi than I was of the Sens for the past 4 or 5 seasons, last year hopefully was the rule going forward, not the exception.

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