NHL CBA Talk

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    NEELY
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:55 pm

    shabbs wrote:I think Bettman may start to sweat this time around... hopefully someone is sweating and gives in soon. Hopefully!

    Not sure why people keep saying Bettman will break... has he ever broken? He is clearly of the mindset that the fans will come back (point for the owners and players), he has never broken in negotiations (point for the owners), he has money coming into the owners for TV deal even during a lockout (point for the owners), and Pheonix, Columbus, and a dozen other teams lose less during a lockout then they otherwise would (point for the owners).

    Where on earth does Fehr have the balls to say to the players "the owners will break" or w/e else. He was up against Selig in MLB, a former owner who had no business at the table with Fehr to begin with. He's against Bettman, a guy who cancelled an entire season to get what he wants... this won't be any different if the players don't link their salaries to revenue, that's what they lost an entire year for before... won't change.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:57 pm

    SpezDispenser wrote:I think Bettman will sweat this time around as well. 2 lockouts in 7 years? Looks really bad on both the NHL and the PA.

    BG said the same thing. Players have talked a good game but lets face it, 500 of the guys are not getting paid anything right now and 200 of them probably won't see another game in the NHL based on the last lockout. The players will crack like last time and play hockey with their tails firmly between their legs.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:15 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    shabbs wrote:I think Bettman may start to sweat this time around... hopefully someone is sweating and gives in soon. Hopefully!

    Not sure why people keep saying Bettman will break... has he ever broken? He is clearly of the mindset that the fans will come back (point for the owners and players), he has never broken in negotiations (point for the owners), he has money coming into the owners for TV deal even during a lockout (point for the owners), and Pheonix, Columbus, and a dozen other teams lose less during a lockout then they otherwise would (point for the owners).

    Where on earth does Fehr have the balls to say to the players "the owners will break" or w/e else. He was up against Selig in MLB, a former owner who had no business at the table with Fehr to begin with. He's against Bettman, a guy who cancelled an entire season to get what he wants... this won't be any different if the players don't link their salaries to revenue, that's what they lost an entire year for before... won't change.
    Bettman is a robot, programmed with the will and desire of the owners but without any emotions built in. We all know the owners will "win" in the end. They always do.

    Some have speculated that if we lose the season, Gary would be canned right after the new agreement was signed. Not sure how likely that is. I think Bettman will be there forever.


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:38 pm

    I think that's probably a pretty accurate statement to be honest. The NHL will need a new face for sure.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:49 pm

    shabbs wrote:
    Some have speculated that if we lose the season, Gary would be canned right after the new agreement was signed. Not sure how likely that is. I think Bettman will be there forever.


    It would depend on what kind of CBA he gets done. He's apparently pissed off some owners who thought he gave "too much" in the last proposal.

    As long as there are hardliners like Jacobs running the NHL BoG, Bettman will play by their rules which is squeeze the players as much as you can.

    Other teams can only sit and watch. I really doubt Melnyk wants a lost season but I am sure he doesn't want player escalating either.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:58 pm

    Well Bettman's legacy is already carved out. He was a hardline commish who was willing to lose a season to please the owners he works for and for the deals he viewed as healthy for the league... not sure why he would turn into a players commish at this point.

    He might be on his way out the door come a signed CBA but you can bet Bill Daly will be there to take his spot who's also a pretty hard lined guy himself, just more media freindly.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:07 pm

    Bill Daly has certainly been more involved and vocal this time. As for the Fehr's, everyone is dubbing Steve Fehr as the next NHLPA head once this is done and a new CBA is signed.

    The #2's will be taking over methinks.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:29 pm

    shabbs wrote:Bill Daly has certainly been more involved and vocal this time. As for the Fehr's, everyone is dubbing Steve Fehr as the next NHLPA head once this is done and a new CBA is signed.

    The #2's will be taking over methinks.


    I believe Steve Fehr taking over for Donald was in Donny Fehr's employment agreement. Fehr is only here to ratify a new CBA and he's done. He more or less came out of retirement for this I think.

    I think if we get a new CBA, it'll be Daly and S.Fehr who work it out as they've been speaking privately one on one the whole time.

    Bettman and Don Fehr are just incompatible, like two like magnets coming together.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:36 pm

    Via Andy Strickland:

    "According to sources Don Fehr has convinced the players the longer they remain firm, the better the deal will be down the road #NHLPA"

    https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/261173200686288897

    "On Tuesday's conf. call Don fehr explained to the players that the deal got better in 2004the longer the lockout went. "

    https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/261173643244097538

    Here we go. He's setting the table for a lost season.


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:01 pm

    Yup, that's not great to hear. Oh well.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:09 pm

    wprager wrote:
    shabbs wrote:It would be a travesty for Sens fans if this was how it all ended for Alfie. A freaking lockout over money and nothing but money. It would be a damn shame. Hopefully it does not come to that and we still end up with a shortened season featuring The Alfie. Until the season is officially cancelled, I'll hold on that that hope.

    As much as I like and admire Daniel Alfredsson, as many times as I've posted a "Prrrraise Alfie!" or the many, MANY posts in the "appreciation" thread, or etc. etc. -- he is still just one player, and he is not bigger than the game. I've seen Gretzky and Lemieux live in their primes, I've watched Tretiak and Yakushev and Kharlamov (actually "met" him once -- my dad pointed him out across a crowded room) and the rest of the old CCCP. Age gives you a certain perspective.

    Would it be monumentally sad if Alfie's last season is canceled? Of course! But hockey -- when it returns -- will still be hockey, even if #11 is up in the rafters instead of down on the ice. And, surely, you cannot expect a $3+B business, or 700+ professional players to put aside their differences just so that one player can have his swan song?

    Messier was 11 games shy of Gordie Howe's record of 1767 games played when the last lockout started, and he announced his retirement the following September. Was there any outcry then? Same should happen to Alfie. He can still play, if he wants to. If he doesn't, I don't think he'll be retiring just shy of some monumental record.

    I'm not suggesting that Ottawa fans shouldn't be pissed off about it, just put it in perspective.

    The point is IF there is a lost season there will not be a $3+ billion dollar industry.. it will be significantly reduced. The NHL has already lost fans... letting this drag out because of egos and greed will result in more lost fans... Some will come back in due course.. but some won't.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:13 pm

    Not sure what the projected revenue would be after a lost season. Chances are it will be lower, but how much lower? No one knows.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:16 pm

    Honestly, I would love to hear how the players feel about a lost season vs taking a lesser deal and making a 2.something average salary. Just curious you know... maybe Fehr doesn't speak for everyone kind of thing. Then again, we are talking about a union.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:17 pm

    shabbs wrote:So, the NHL refuses to meet unless there's a new proposal or the NHLPA wants to discuss the NHL's proposal.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/10/24/nhl_cba_labour_talks_nhlpa_request_to_meet_denied/

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408009

    This is now a standoff. The next move will be a blink.

    Maybe the NHLPA will lob another proposal the NHL's way... but I doubt it after the last three were knocked down faster than you can say Jeremy Roenick. NHL has said "this is it" barring some minor tweaks.

    Bah.

    The only thing the NHLPA has to do is to take the Owners last proposal and tweak it to their liking. (They should have done this instead of the 3 proposals last week.) Then the NHL could come back with some more tweaking and so on... THAT is how to negotiate. That has not happened yet. No side has done a proposal off of the others' proposal and that is the issue.

    I don't see this settled any time soon. They are just shooting themselves in the foot. The longer this goes.. the more fans they lose.. and the more revenue they lose. The NHLPA is willing to lose 1.87 Billion in revenue in 1 lost season than accept the latest NHL offer and lose 1.6B over 6 seasons.

    I read/heard somewhere that they are about $300 Million apart. That is not much compared to the total 3.2 Billion dollar revenue from last season that it appears they are willing to just throw away.. That makes absolutely no sense to me..

    For either side to dig in their heels to even consider doing this to their fan base, advertisers, sponsors, etc.. is reprehensible in my books..

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:21 pm

    sandysensfan wrote:
    shabbs wrote:So, the NHL refuses to meet unless there's a new proposal or the NHLPA wants to discuss the NHL's proposal.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/10/24/nhl_cba_labour_talks_nhlpa_request_to_meet_denied/

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408009

    This is now a standoff. The next move will be a blink.

    Maybe the NHLPA will lob another proposal the NHL's way... but I doubt it after the last three were knocked down faster than you can say Jeremy Roenick. NHL has said "this is it" barring some minor tweaks.

    Bah.

    The only thing the NHLPA has to do is to take the Owners last proposal and tweak it to their liking. (They should have done this instead of the 3 proposals last week.) Then the NHL could come back with some more tweaking and so on... THAT is how to negotiate. That has not happened yet. No side has done a proposal off of the others' proposal and that is the issue.

    I don't see this settled any time soon. They are just shooting themselves in the foot. The longer this goes.. the more fans they lose.. and the more revenue they lose. The NHLPA is willing to lose 1.87 Billion in revenue in 1 lost season than accept the latest NHL offer and lose 1.6B over 6 seasons.

    I read/heard somewhere that they are about $300 Million apart. That is not much compared to the total 3.2 Billion dollar revenue from last season that it appears they are willing to just throw away.. That makes absolutely no sense to me..

    For either side to dig in their heels to even consider doing this to their fan base, advertisers, sponsors, etc.. is reprehensible in my books..

    You realize rational has no place in these talks, right? It's ego vs ego, nothing more.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:25 pm

    shabbs wrote:Via Andy Strickland:

    "According to sources Don Fehr has convinced the players the longer they remain firm, the better the deal will be down the road #NHLPA"

    https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/261173200686288897

    "On Tuesday's conf. call Don fehr explained to the players that the deal got better in 2004the longer the lockout went. "

    https://twitter.com/andystrickland/status/261173643244097538

    Here we go. He's setting the table for a lost season.


    He is a FOOL. And if the players believe him, they are bigger fools. This is not MLB with an infinite amount of revenue. This is a GATE DRIVEN sport for the most part. That gate driven revenue is from fans.. who will leave the sport in droves if this season is lost. Fehr had better realize that fast OR his players will be splitting revenue of about 2 billion... it could fall that far. This lockout is about greed.. and nothing else. To be so arrogant to take the fans through this again is dispicable.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:30 pm

    Any guesses on how many games will be cancelled by the end of the week? Rest of November? More?

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:48 pm

    shabbs wrote:Any guesses on how many games will be cancelled by the end of the week? Rest of November? More?

    Dec 1 is a Saturday so yah, make sense to cancel all games up until then. No point in trying to make any back either. 72 games vs 60... who cares?

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