NHL CBA Talk

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    shabbs
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:40 pm

    New poll: predict when the NHLPA will file for decertification.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:56 pm

    shabbs wrote:New poll: predict when the NHLPA will file for decertification.

    They would be foolish to do that. I hope some agents talk to the 3rd & 4th liners and make them realize what is in decertification for them... smaller contracts -- much less than what they would have if they took the NHL's offer. In decertification the big money goes to the stars.. the other players gets what left...

    I have a feeling they will decertifiy before Bettman cancels more games... maybe Dec 3rd. With the BOG meetings on Dec 5th... that will give them something to talk about.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:55 pm

    They'll decertify to force a settlement. I really doubt they'll permanently disband the union. The only other choice is to accept the NHL's offer and they're not doing that.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:31 pm

    Hoags wrote:They'll decertify to force a settlement. I really doubt they'll permanently disband the union. The only other choice is to accept the NHL's offer and they're not doing that.

    It is in the hands of the NHL right now.. to respond to the NHLPA's offer...

    But what I don't get is the 5 yr term limit on contracts. What does it matter how long they are -- if they have a strict variance within that contract. At least give the players that.. They can't take everything away from them.. I know they gave back on the ELC's back to 3 yrs... but at least give the players a 9 yr contract like they requested in their offer.. Probably most NHL players have the 5 or 6 yr contracts... it is only the stars that get the longer contracts... so how exactly would it matter?
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:45 pm

    sandysensfan wrote:
    But what I don't get is the 5 yr term limit on contracts. What does it matter how long they are -- if they have a strict variance within that contract. At least give the players that.. They can't take everything away from them.. I know they gave back on the ELC's back to 3 yrs... but at least give the players a 9 yr contract like they requested in their offer.. Probably most NHL players have the 5 or 6 yr contracts... it is only the stars that get the longer contracts... so how exactly would it matter?

    The 5 year limit is supposedly due to the fact that the NHL can only insure contracts on the league's insurance policy up to 5 years. With the concussion epidemic, insurance companies will not insure these massively long deals, the teams have to buy the insurance separately which is an extra cost. I've read they can't insure beyond 5 or 7 years not sure which is the truth.

    It's also extra insurance (heh heh) against massively long back diving deals.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:31 am

    They should lump in insurance costs into the players' share. Or at least the difference between what insurance would cost with and without the 5-year max rule. Let the players decide what's more important to them. Concussions happen primarily because of what they do to each other -- pretty much all of it illegal and unnecessary.


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:49 pm

    Word is talks will resume this week between NHL and NHLPA. Not sure what about though. Unless the NHL has a counter to the NHLPA's last offering.

    Eric Macramalla has an article regarding decertification. Should be a good read, he's good at providing a legal angle on the sports world.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410312

    NHL BOG meets Dec. 5th - will that be the day they vote to kill the season? Or is that too early? I guess it depends of the NHLPA has gone down the decertification road or not by then...
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:54 pm

    Interesting point from that article:

    Are Decertification and Disclaimer of Interest The Same?

    No. These terms are used interchangeably but are not the same thing. Decertification refers to the players voting to no longer have the NHLPA represent it. It requires the players to vote on decertification and then to subsequently have the National Labor Relations Board validate decertification.

    Disclaiming interest occurs when the Union terminates its right to represent the players. It's a less formal process than decertification and only requires the Union to renounce representation of the players. It's easier to do and it takes less time to re-form the Union afterwards.

    While they are different, the net effect is the same: the Union is dissolved and the players are free to sue for antitrust violations.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hobiesens on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:31 pm

    U.S. federal mediators are now involved in the labour talks between the NHL and NHL Players' Association.

    I have had separate, informal discussions with the key representatives of the National Hockey League and the National Hockey League Players' Association during the course of their negotiations for a successor collective bargaining agreement," said Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service Director George H. Cohen in a statement.

    "At the invitation of the FMCS, and with the agreement of both parties, the ongoing negotiations will now be conducted under our auspices. I have assigned Deputy Director Scot L. Beckenbaugh, Director of Mediation Services John Sweeney, and Commissioner Guy Serota to serve as the mediators."

    "Due to the extreme sensitivity of these negotiations and consistent with the FMCS's long-standing practice, the Agency will refrain from any public comment concerning the future schedule and/or the status of the negotiations until further notice."
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:37 pm

    Interesting. This was also done in the last lockout, but very late in the process (like Feb. 13th late) and the season was cancelled shortly thereafter.
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:44 pm

    Not sure if that's good or bad. Did they get on board too late last time or did their arrival signal to the NHL that it was time to kill the season?


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoags on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:03 pm

    Apparently the PA asked for it.

    So the players want to try it and get talks going, I presume most of them still do not want to decertify.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:19 pm

    Hoags wrote:Apparently the PA asked for it.

    So the players want to try it and get talks going, I presume most of them still do not want to decertify.

    Because it will destroy the players. Teams fold, loss for the players (round about win for the league, they lose less). Bottom end players make way below what they are now (win for the owners, loss for the players).

    No matter what the players are screwed and they know it. They picked a fight they can't win and they are seeing it now. The best off was back in Oct when they could have got 82 games in and lost NO money aside from a small roll back... now they lose it all except maybe Crosby, Ovechkin, and a few others. Although, good luck getting those millions back, haha.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:06 pm

    Hoags wrote:Apparently the PA asked for it.

    So the players want to try it and get talks going, I presume most of them still do not want to decertify.

    I disagree with that.. I think they would vote to do that out of spite. A lot of these negotiations seem to be done on the hatred for Bettman.. and not common sense.

    The superstars will thrive in decertification and the 3rd or 4th liners suffer.

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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:15 pm

    So it starts... doesn't take people long.

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Travis-Yost/Worlds-Biggest-Creep-Greatest-Liar-Will-Mediate-NHL-Disaster/134/47682
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:42 pm

    We shouldn't expect too much from the mediation, it could take a while... and if the NHLPA goes down the decertification route in the meantime, it could derail things even more.

    Sounds like this is a PR move of sorts as both sides seem to be at an impasse and simply waiting out the end of the season's inevitability... Dec. 5th BOG meeting should be interesting...
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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:35 pm

    sandysensfan wrote:So it starts... doesn't take people long.

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Travis-Yost/Worlds-Biggest-Creep-Greatest-Liar-Will-Mediate-NHL-Disaster/134/47682

    "Low and behold" Facepalm

    I stopped reading right there.


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    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:37 pm

    wprager wrote:
    sandysensfan wrote:So it starts... doesn't take people long.

    http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Travis-Yost/Worlds-Biggest-Creep-Greatest-Liar-Will-Mediate-NHL-Disaster/134/47682

    "Low and behold" Facepalm

    I stopped reading right there.
    Why?

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