NHL CBA Talk

    Share

    shabbs
    Hall of Famer
    Hall of Famer

    Number of posts : 31416
    Registration date : 2008-08-12

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:48 am

    This lockout really pooched things. The NHL was rolling along so well.

    But, if they had continued to let things continue as they were, the cap would have kept rising and rising and rising... which may not have been good for all teams. The owners want the cap down.

    If they get a 48 game season in and playoffs, they'll get back a large portion of the revenue as the majority is playoffs.

    shabbs
    Hall of Famer
    Hall of Famer

    Number of posts : 31416
    Registration date : 2008-08-12

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:53 am

    So voting on the DOI wraps up at 6:00pm today... will we see the PA file a DOI this time? Seems the players were not happy that Fehr didn't do so last time.

    sandysensfan
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 3187
    Registration date : 2011-01-04

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:41 am

    My question is.. why did Donald Fehr wait for about 4 days before telling the players about that 'HRR" snafu.. which by that time had already been corrected by the NHL?

    What purpose did it fulfil other than putting a wrench into the talks? Or was that his intention?

    Both sides risk much if there is no season.

    If the NHLPA files the disclaimer... all of the NHL players had better head to Europe.. fans will be irate -- if some of them care at all.
    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48298
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:11 am

    shabbs wrote:So voting on the DOI wraps up at 6:00pm today... will we see the PA file a DOI this time? Seems the players were not happy that Fehr didn't do so last time.

    There is zero chance they don't disclaim this time (empty threat, otherwise). They only question is, will they put a deadline on it, like last time, or keep it open? If the put a deadline of Jan. 11 -- same as the NHL's deadline for canceling the season, then it will be next to useless. We all know that if the season is lost they will break up the union (45 days to decertify won't be a problem). In order to put pressure on the NHL they will need to make the deadline earlier than the season cancellation deadline. But if they do, then it's a clear aggressive move on their part, and after what's been said and done, I think it will be really tough to salvage the season.


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox
    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48298
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:16 am

    sandysensfan wrote:My question is.. why did Donald Fehr wait for about 4 days before telling the players about that 'HRR" snafu.. which by that time had already been corrected by the NHL?

    What purpose did it fulfil other than putting a wrench into the talks? Or was that his intention?

    Both sides risk much if there is no season.

    If the NHLPA files the disclaimer... all of the NHL players had better head to Europe.. fans will be irate -- if some of them care at all.

    Well, he may have just been reading it. They got a paper copy, not a Word doc with "tracked changed". Although I did hear that it was clearly indicated as a change. So who knows.

    The NHL gave them too much time. They should have waited another 2-34 days, and then gave them the offer with deadlines for a 52-game season (start Jan. 12, so camps start Jan. 5, deal signed Jan. 4 -- would have given them a couple of days to sign), or a 48-game season (Start Jan. 19, camp star Jan. 12, so deadline Jan. 11).

    By bringing the offer in too early it gave the NHLPA time to read/counter with time left for negotiations. If they only gave them enough time to counter, with no room for negotiations, then the NHLPA offer would have had to be "good enough".


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox
    avatar
    shabbs
    Hall of Famer
    Hall of Famer

    Number of posts : 31416
    Location : I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-12

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:29 am

    wprager wrote:
    sandysensfan wrote:My question is.. why did Donald Fehr wait for about 4 days before telling the players about that 'HRR" snafu.. which by that time had already been corrected by the NHL?

    What purpose did it fulfil other than putting a wrench into the talks? Or was that his intention?

    Both sides risk much if there is no season.

    If the NHLPA files the disclaimer... all of the NHL players had better head to Europe.. fans will be irate -- if some of them care at all.

    Well, he may have just been reading it. They got a paper copy, not a Word doc with "tracked changed". Although I did hear that it was clearly indicated as a change. So who knows.

    The NHL gave them too much time. They should have waited another 2-34 days, and then gave them the offer with deadlines for a 52-game season (start Jan. 12, so camps start Jan. 5, deal signed Jan. 4 -- would have given them a couple of days to sign), or a 48-game season (Start Jan. 19, camp star Jan. 12, so deadline Jan. 11).

    By bringing the offer in too early it gave the NHLPA time to read/counter with time left for negotiations. If they only gave them enough time to counter, with no room for negotiations, then the NHLPA offer would have had to be "good enough".
    It was also a section that was not expected to be changed. They had agreed on the HRR language a while ago and it was not expected to be changing again. Mulling through 300 pages even with changes identified is not easy.
    avatar
    shabbs
    Hall of Famer
    Hall of Famer

    Number of posts : 31416
    Location : I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-12

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by shabbs on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:31 am

    wprager wrote:
    shabbs wrote:So voting on the DOI wraps up at 6:00pm today... will we see the PA file a DOI this time? Seems the players were not happy that Fehr didn't do so last time.

    There is zero chance they don't disclaim this time (empty threat, otherwise). They only question is, will they put a deadline on it, like last time, or keep it open? If the put a deadline of Jan. 11 -- same as the NHL's deadline for canceling the season, then it will be next to useless. We all know that if the season is lost they will break up the union (45 days to decertify won't be a problem). In order to put pressure on the NHL they will need to make the deadline earlier than the season cancellation deadline. But if they do, then it's a clear aggressive move on their part, and after what's been said and done, I think it will be really tough to salvage the season.
    They should file a DOI at 6:01pm today. Heh heh.

    I think they'll set a deadline internally but won't make it public. That didn't work too well last time.

    sandysensfan
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 3187
    Age : 65
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-01-04

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:28 pm

    shabbs wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    sandysensfan wrote:My question is.. why did Donald Fehr wait for about 4 days before telling the players about that 'HRR" snafu.. which by that time had already been corrected by the NHL?

    What purpose did it fulfil other than putting a wrench into the talks? Or was that his intention?

    Both sides risk much if there is no season.

    If the NHLPA files the disclaimer... all of the NHL players had better head to Europe.. fans will be irate -- if some of them care at all.

    Well, he may have just been reading it. They got a paper copy, not a Word doc with "tracked changed". Although I did hear that it was clearly indicated as a change. So who knows.

    The NHL gave them too much time. They should have waited another 2-34 days, and then gave them the offer with deadlines for a 52-game season (start Jan. 12, so camps start Jan. 5, deal signed Jan. 4 -- would have given them a couple of days to sign), or a 48-game season (Start Jan. 19, camp star Jan. 12, so deadline Jan. 11).

    By bringing the offer in too early it gave the NHLPA time to read/counter with time left for negotiations. If they only gave them enough time to counter, with no room for negotiations, then the NHLPA offer would have had to be "good enough".
    It was also a section that was not expected to be changed. They had agreed on the HRR language a while ago and it was not expected to be changing again. Mulling through 300 pages even with changes identified is not easy.

    They thought Pensions was settled as well... but it obviously wasn`t. John Shannon was talking about it briefly yesterday on Sportsnet.. I didn`t hear the entire statement... but he stated there are issues with the pension laws between Canada & the US. I think Canada has the tougher restrictions. Trying to get that pension when you are dealing with two different jurisdictions would be very difficult... Some of it also has to do with Defined Benefit pensions (which a lot of companies don`t start up anymore) vs Defined Contribution Pensions. Also is most companies.. BOTH the employer and the employee make contribution to pension plans... I'm not sure.. but don't the players want the Owners to fully fund the pension?
    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48298
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:42 pm

    Pensions? I'm making less than a quarter what the lowest-paid of them get paid, yet I have to plan for my own retirement.


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox
    avatar
    SeawaySensFan
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 24783
    Age : 46
    Location : Cornwall, ON
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-02

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:53 pm

    wprager wrote:Pensions? I'm making less than a quarter what the lowest-paid of them get paid, yet I have to plan for my own retirement.

    Why do you keep comparing your situation to that of professional athletes?
    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48298
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:58 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    wprager wrote:Pensions? I'm making less than a quarter what the lowest-paid of them get paid, yet I have to plan for my own retirement.

    Why do you keep comparing your situation to that of professional athletes?

    That's a great question. Why do guys making millions need a union? Why do guys making millions need to haggle over pension contributions. Why do guys making millions complain about sharing a room in a 5 star hotel? Why do guys making millions ... it goes on and on.

    I'm not the one comparing them to us; they are the ones who appear to be doing that.


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox
    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48298
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by wprager on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:03 pm

    Small meeting scheduled for 1:15 -- first face-to-face between NHL and NHLPA since Thursday.


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox
    avatar
    tim1_2
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 16491
    Age : 35
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-01-07

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by tim1_2 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:21 pm

    As per TSN.ca, here's a brief summary of where things currently stand:

    - The NHLPA agreed to go to 10 years in CBA length, matching the NHL's desire on term for the deal (although the NHLPA has an opt out after Year 7 while the NHL would prefer one after Year 8).

    - The NHL agreed to the NHLPA's request to up its compliance buyout to two per team, up from one per team before the 2013-14 season.

    - The NHL upped its salary variance rule on contracts to 30 percent, up from the five percent and then 10 percent demands it had had in previous offers.

    However, sources tell TSN that seven or eight unresolved issues remain, the three most meaningful ones being the second-year cap number, the length of player contacts and the players' pension.


    sandysensfan
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 3187
    Age : 65
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-01-04

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:54 pm

    wprager wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    wprager wrote:Pensions? I'm making less than a quarter what the lowest-paid of them get paid, yet I have to plan for my own retirement.

    Why do you keep comparing your situation to that of professional athletes?

    That's a great question. Why do guys making millions need a union? Why do guys making millions need to haggle over pension contributions. Why do guys making millions complain about sharing a room in a 5 star hotel? Why do guys making millions ... it goes on and on.

    I'm not the one comparing them to us; they are the ones who appear to be doing that.

    The players of today for the most part don't need a pension fund. But ones from the past probably due. I mean Guy Lafleur makes about $2K a month.. For his skill and what he did for the game... that's peanuts..

    sandysensfan
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 3187
    Age : 65
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-01-04

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by sandysensfan on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:59 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:As per TSN.ca, here's a brief summary of where things currently stand:

    - The NHLPA agreed to go to 10 years in CBA length, matching the NHL's desire on term for the deal (although the NHLPA has an opt out after Year 7 while the NHL would prefer one after Year 8).

    - The NHL agreed to the NHLPA's request to up its compliance buyout to two per team, up from one per team before the 2013-14 season.

    - The NHL upped its salary variance rule on contracts to 30 percent, up from the five percent and then 10 percent demands it had had in previous offers.

    However, sources tell TSN that seven or eight unresolved issues remain, the three most meaningful ones being the second-year cap number, the length of player contacts and the players' pension.


    John Shannon is stating that Pensions have been settled... Defined Benefit funded by the players.

    So they need to agree on the salary cap for next season... how about meet in the middle. And contract length. How about 7 yrs.... Get it done you bozos.

    IF it does happen... Murray had better get on the ball PDQ to get at least one good defensemen...

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by NEELY on Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:03 pm

    wprager wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    wprager wrote:Pensions? I'm making less than a quarter what the lowest-paid of them get paid, yet I have to plan for my own retirement.

    Why do you keep comparing your situation to that of professional athletes?

    That's a great question. Why do guys making millions need a union?
    Why do guys making millions need to haggle over pension contributions. Why do guys making millions complain about sharing a room in a 5 star hotel? Why do guys making millions ... it goes on and on.

    I'm not the one comparing them to us; they are the ones who appear to be doing that.

    Haha biggest "touche" moment ever lol.
    avatar
    Hoff-Machine
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 8461
    Age : 32
    Location : Orange County, CA
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-06-22

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:13 pm

    wprager wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    wprager wrote:Pensions? I'm making less than a quarter what the lowest-paid of them get paid, yet I have to plan for my own retirement.

    Why do you keep comparing your situation to that of professional athletes?

    That's a great question. Why do guys making millions need a union? Why do guys making millions need to haggle over pension contributions. Why do guys making millions complain about sharing a room in a 5 star hotel? Why do guys making millions ... it goes on and on.

    I'm not the one comparing them to us; they are the ones who appear to be doing that.

    Excellent post. This pretty much sums it up right here and that's why it irks alot of us regular joes to see the pouty behaviour of the PA and their 'union'. Groan...

    For the record I'm not on any side. I'm quite annoyed at the antics of both parties. It's been nice to discover life outside of hockey though Nod
    avatar
    Hoff-Machine
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 8461
    Age : 32
    Location : Orange County, CA
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-06-22

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:20 pm

    sandysensfan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:As per TSN.ca, here's a brief summary of where things currently stand:

    - The NHLPA agreed to go to 10 years in CBA length, matching the NHL's desire on term for the deal (although the NHLPA has an opt out after Year 7 while the NHL would prefer one after Year 8).

    - The NHL agreed to the NHLPA's request to up its compliance buyout to two per team, up from one per team before the 2013-14 season.

    - The NHL upped its salary variance rule on contracts to 30 percent, up from the five percent and then 10 percent demands it had had in previous offers.

    However, sources tell TSN that seven or eight unresolved issues remain, the three most meaningful ones being the second-year cap number, the length of player contacts and the players' pension.


    John Shannon is stating that Pensions have been settled... Defined Benefit funded by the players.

    So they need to agree on the salary cap for next season... how about meet in the middle. And contract length. How about 7 yrs.... Get it done you bozos.

    IF it does happen... Murray had better get on the ball PDQ to get at least one good defensemen...

    From all indications, it's getting very close now...maybe it becomes official by Monday but it's all but certain there will be hockey this season. Joy? Meh...I cancelled my season tickets a long time ago.

    Sponsored content

    Re: NHL CBA Talk

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:40 pm