General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

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    NEELY
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by NEELY on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:43 am

    Hoags wrote:http://www.thescore.com/nhl/articles/1257707-report-nhl-salary-cap-could-rise-to-80-million-in-four-years

    The NHL's salary cap could go up to $80 million within the next four years, according to Elliotte Friedman of CBC Sports.
    Speaking on Sportsnet 590 The Fan's "Prime Time Sports", Friedman said some within the sport expect the cap to rise to that level prior to the 2017-18 NHL season.
    I hope Eugene has a big piggybank somewhere that he hasn't opened yet.
    Needs to spend to the floor which will be somehting like 64-70 million so he has no choice, lol. That or Ottawa doesn't have a team which won't happen.

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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by wprager on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:45 am

    Anyone have a copy of the The Sports Forecaster? Apparently they picked Ottawa to win this year:

    http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/hockey-yearbook-picks-ottawa-senators-to-win-stanley-cup?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canwest%2FF6931+%28Ottawa+Citizen+-+Senators+%2F+Hockey%29

    I saw a different publication with their pick of 4 dark-horse teams and Ottawa was the top of that list, but that's a far cry from a prediction. So is The Hockey Yearbook actually predicting Ottawa to win or is that another "dark horse candidate" story? I can't seem to find an online copy of that article.

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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Hoags on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:46 am

    NEELY wrote:
    Needs to spend to the floor which will be somehting like 64-70 million so he has no choice, lol.  That or Ottawa doesn't have a team which won't happen.
    Well there's always option #3, if he can't afford it, then sell it to someone who can.  Shouldn't have any trouble finding interest.

    I think the casino thing will be voted on August 26th, that should decide things one way or the other.


    Last edited by Hoags on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by PTFlea on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:47 am

    wprager wrote:Anyone have a copy of the The Sports Forecaster?  Apparently they picked Ottawa to win this year:

    http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/hockey-yearbook-picks-ottawa-senators-to-win-stanley-cup?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canwest%2FF6931+%28Ottawa+Citizen+-+Senators+%2F+Hockey%29

    I saw a different publication with their pick of 4 dark-horse teams and Ottawa was the top of that list, but that's a far cry from a prediction.  So is The Hockey Yearbook actually predicting Ottawa to win or is that another "dark horse candidate" story?  I can't seem to find an online copy of that article.
    But...but...Karlsson coming back will raise the GAA!!@ Ahhhhh! Facepalm 
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:51 am

    NEELY wrote:
    Hoags wrote:http://www.thescore.com/nhl/articles/1257707-report-nhl-salary-cap-could-rise-to-80-million-in-four-years

    The NHL's salary cap could go up to $80 million within the next four years, according to Elliotte Friedman of CBC Sports.
    Speaking on Sportsnet 590 The Fan's "Prime Time Sports", Friedman said some within the sport expect the cap to rise to that level prior to the 2017-18 NHL season.
    I hope Eugene has a big piggybank somewhere that he hasn't opened yet.
    Needs to spend to the floor which will be somehting like 64-70 million so he has no choice, lol. That or Ottawa doesn't have a team which won't happen.
    An 80M cap ceiling would mean about 59M cap floor not 64-70M. New CBA uses 15% above and below the adjusted mid-point up to a max of 24 or 28M gap between ceiling and floor.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by wprager on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:51 am

    Hoags wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    No need. That should be right around the end of the rebuild and right at the beginning of the re-rebuild. Expect Spezza, Ryan and Karlsson to be long-gone and The Gene to encourage fans to come watch a pesky, plucky exciting brand of hockey. Cheers TwoThumbsUp! Cheering 
    Well this is year 3 of the "plan" so we'll see what the story will be after this year:) 

    $80M cap means $66M cap floor.  Have to spend that much and you can't use bonuses to hit it either :)that's about $16M higher than his current budget.

    "pesky, plucky exciting brand of hockey" doesn't that mean "cheap" in Melnykese ? Laughing3 
    It's a soft budget. And a hard floor. We are at $57.3M if Cowen signs that contract -- that's pretty close to half way between the ceiling ($64.3M) and the supposed internal budget ($50M).


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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:54 am

    wprager wrote:
    Hoags wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    No need. That should be right around the end of the rebuild and right at the beginning of the re-rebuild. Expect Spezza, Ryan and Karlsson to be long-gone and The Gene to encourage fans to come watch a pesky, plucky exciting brand of hockey. Cheers TwoThumbsUp! Cheering 
    Well this is year 3 of the "plan" so we'll see what the story will be after this year:) 

    $80M cap means $66M cap floor.  Have to spend that much and you can't use bonuses to hit it either :)that's about $16M higher than his current budget.

    "pesky, plucky exciting brand of hockey" doesn't that mean "cheap" in Melnykese ? Laughing3 
    It's a soft budget.  And a hard floor.  We are at $57.3M if Cowen signs that contract -- that's pretty close to half way between the ceiling ($64.3M) and the supposed internal budget ($50M).
    Did you account for Spezza, Ryan and Karlsson departure and the addition of some hungry, inexperienced youngsters?

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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by NEELY on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:55 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    Hoags wrote:http://www.thescore.com/nhl/articles/1257707-report-nhl-salary-cap-could-rise-to-80-million-in-four-years

    The NHL's salary cap could go up to $80 million within the next four years, according to Elliotte Friedman of CBC Sports.
    Speaking on Sportsnet 590 The Fan's "Prime Time Sports", Friedman said some within the sport expect the cap to rise to that level prior to the 2017-18 NHL season.
    I hope Eugene has a big piggybank somewhere that he hasn't opened yet.
    Needs to spend to the floor which will be somehting like 64-70 million so he has no choice, lol.  That or Ottawa doesn't have a team which won't happen.
    An 80M cap ceiling would mean about 59M cap floor not 64-70M.  New CBA uses 15% above and below the adjusted mid-point up to a max of 24 or 28M gap between ceiling and floor.
    Point still stands, you need to get to the floor and the way the Sens are going they will be selling out that building every single night or close to it.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Hoags on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:56 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    An 80M cap ceiling would mean about 59M cap floor not 64-70M.  New CBA uses 15% above and below the adjusted mid-point up to a max of 24 or 28M gap between ceiling and floor.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/how-the-nhls-salary-cap-could-hit-90-million/article7029575/

    The basics of how the cap and floor will be calculated is that they will be 15 per cent above and 15 per cent below the midpoint. I’ve written in the past about calculating the midpoint, and according to Bill Daly, the new CBA keeps the same formula.

    - The only other key stipulation is that the cap and floor cannot be less than $8-million away from the midpoint or more than $14-million away from it. Looking at various revenue projections, that seems unlikely to happen anyway.
    Ah yes you are right.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Hoags on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:59 am

    wprager wrote:
    It's a soft budget.  And a hard floor.  We are at $57.3M if Cowen signs that contract -- that's pretty close to half way between the ceiling ($64.3M) and the supposed internal budget ($50M).
    You're talking cap hit.  The Sens currently have $50,877,500 real dollars allocated to player salaries right now without Cowen.  That's without Cowen and JOB and Pageau getting NHL salary.


    Last edited by Hoags on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : NM)
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by wprager on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:41 am

    Hoags wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    It's a soft budget.  And a hard floor.  We are at $57.3M if Cowen signs that contract -- that's pretty close to half way between the ceiling ($64.3M) and the supposed internal budget ($50M).
    You're talking cap hit.  The Sens currently have $50,877,500 real dollars allocated to player salaries right now without Cowen.  That's without Cowen and JOB and Pageau getting NHL salary.
    Can you tell me where the Sens rank in payroll, then? You cannot rank according to payroll and get any reasonable picture because it fluctuates with bonuses and front/back loaded contracts. Cap hit is the only sensible way to go.


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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Hoags on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:51 am

    wprager wrote:
    Can you tell me where the Sens rank in payroll, then?  You cannot rank according to payroll and get any reasonable picture because it fluctuates with bonuses and front/back loaded contracts.  Cap hit is the only sensible way to go.
    We're 28th in the league (3rd lowest) according to capgeek.  That doesn't include bonues(which may/may not be payed out). Only Florida ($50,176,209) and the Islanders($44,431,500) are giving less money to their players next year right now.

    That is how much actual dollars will be paid out this year, front or backloaded contract it doesn't matter.  For example it includes the $6M Michalek will get this year.  As of now Eugene will have to pay out at least $$50,877,500 in salary this year.  Maybe a bit more if bonuses are hit but we don't have many of those.  If we ship out JOB and send Pageau down that number will drop of course.

    Cap hit is misleading as it's an average.  Spezza's cap hit is $7.5M but he's only getting $5M this year for example.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by wprager on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:28 pm

    Cap hit is *not* misleading in the least, especially now that they've done away with ridiculous contracts. Cap hit tells you how much more you need to spend, or how much more you can spend. It is a good number for year-over-year comparisons of teams. Ideally you wouldn't have variable contracts and the cap hit and payroll would be the same number (could also help to get rid of agents) but we don't, and the best indicator for the above-mentioned reasons is the cap.


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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:39 pm

    wprager wrote:Cap hit is *not* misleading in the least, especially now that they've done away with ridiculous contracts.  Cap hit tells you how much more you need to spend, or how much more you can spend.  It is a good number for year-over-year comparisons of teams.  Ideally you wouldn't have variable contracts and the cap hit and payroll would be the same number (could also help to get rid of agents) but we don't, and the best indicator for the above-mentioned reasons is the cap.
    If you're discussing a budget, expressed in real dollars, cap hit is misleading.
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by Hoags on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:39 pm

    wprager wrote:Cap hit is *not* misleading in the least, especially now that they've done away with ridiculous contracts.  Cap hit tells you how much more you need to spend, or how much more you can spend.  It is a good number for year-over-year comparisons of teams.  Ideally you wouldn't have variable contracts and the cap hit and payroll would be the same number (could also help to get rid of agents) but we don't, and the best indicator for the above-mentioned reasons is the cap.
    It's less misleading now but it's still misleading as it is an average. You still have ridiculous contracts, they're just less ridiculous now.

    Leeder, Melnyk and the Sens don't want to know the average $ of dollars they are spending, they need a precise number. Player salaries are a fixed cost to the team.

    Right now they are on the hook for $50,877,500. That's at least how much money Eugene needs in the bank account or someone's pay check will bounce. They can easily budget in bonuses by looking at the worst case scenario if they need to pay all possible bonuses in a given year.

    Cap hit will only come to play when the team needs to hit the floor or has trouble staying under the cap(LOL not going to happen anytime soon).
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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by wprager on Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:16 pm

    Hoags wrote:
    wprager wrote:Cap hit is *not* misleading in the least, especially now that they've done away with ridiculous contracts.  Cap hit tells you how much more you need to spend, or how much more you can spend.  It is a good number for year-over-year comparisons of teams.  Ideally you wouldn't have variable contracts and the cap hit and payroll would be the same number (could also help to get rid of agents) but we don't, and the best indicator for the above-mentioned reasons is the cap.
    It's less misleading now but it's still misleading as it is an average.  You still have ridiculous contracts, they're just less ridiculous now.

    Leeder, Melnyk and the Sens don't want to know the average $ of dollars they are spending, they need a precise number.  Player salaries are a fixed cost to the team.

    Right now they are on the hook for $50,877,500.  That's at least how much money Eugene needs in the bank account or someone's pay check will bounce.  They can easily budget in bonuses by looking at the worst case scenario if they need to pay all possible bonuses in a given year.

    Cap hit will only come to play when the team needs to hit the floor or has trouble staying under the cap(LOL not going to happen anytime soon).
    Of course you want to know the average, as it regresses the peaks and valleys to the mean. Business planning needs to look over the longer term (3-5 years or longer).


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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by sandysensfan on Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:51 pm

    wprager wrote:Bruins about to sign Theodore as backup to Rask.
    Well he's better than the backup Detroit has.... Jonas Gustafsson... Bringing in Alfie & Weiss to shore up the forward positions... and if they lose Howard for any length of time... they are in a huge world of hurt.

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    Re: General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

    Post by sandysensfan on Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:54 pm

    Hoags wrote:Pittsburgh and Boston are the only "locks" IMO.
    I think Detroit will make it as well, the West is pretty physical and they made it despite a lot of injuries and almost beat Chicago.
    Toronto is far from a lock, they got lucky last year.  Questionable goaltending, questionable D and they can't even resign Kadri and Franson.
    Ottawa should make it as well.
    I'd put Montreal up there as well.

    The rest is a crapshoot IMO, Rangers and Capitals will probably make it.
    Detroit may have had a lot of injuries last season.. but not the type of injuries the Sens had. They would not have made the playoffs if Howard, Zetterberg, Datsyuk and two of their top 3 D were all out at the same time.. (comparable positions to the ones Ottawa were missing).

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