Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by wprager on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:25 pm

    Michallica wrote:
    SpezDispenser wrote:And there are better top six options.  Spezza shouldn't take offense to that, there are amazing Canadian players.  

    Spezza absolutely should be offended that he wasn't invited.  We're talking about a 'camp' that has no bearing on the final roster except a formality to get the evaluation process started.

    Hope he uses this rejection properly.  To not even be on the radar is pathetic. And I don't believe him not having won with team Canada has anything to do with it. Where's iginla in that case?

    Has Chris Kunitz won anything? Silver at the Worlds. Spezza's done that too.
    Logan Couture? Never played.
    Duchene? Cut from the 2009 WJC, out of the medals in two Worlds.

    I'd bet there are plenty more like that.

    Sorry, Michallica, that was really in reply to NEELY.

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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by NEELY on Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:13 am

    Point being is they look for guys that can take their game to the next level and Spezza has never proven to be able to do that. If he could be counted on to do the right things in the top 6 he might get an invite but every time he is on Team Canada he under performs and doesn't meet expectations. Losing is just a result of that and in all honesty it's pretty easy to not invite Spezza to this camp, he has no chance of making it like a lot of other people have said before and were just called "haters".

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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by wprager on Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:55 pm

    Point is your point had no point.

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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:29 pm

    NEELY wrote:Point being is they look for guys that can take their game to the next level and Spezza has never proven to be able to do that.  If he could be counted on to do the right things in the top 6 he might get an invite but every time he is on Team Canada he under performs and doesn't meet expectations.  Losing is just a result of that and in all honesty it's pretty easy to not invite Spezza to this camp, he has no chance of making it like a lot of other people have said before and were just called "haters".

    I think he at least deserves an invite. He's a point a game player. Not sure how well he'd fair on international ice considering he's not the most elusive or fastest of skaters but still, the guy was top five in league scoring two years ago and was on pace for 1 ppg last season (albeit small sample size).

    I see this as a snubbing for sure, although somewhat warranted. Still, an invite and not making the team is much more of a compliment then being left out altogether.

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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by NEELY on Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:00 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    NEELY wrote:Point being is they look for guys that can take their game to the next level and Spezza has never proven to be able to do that.  If he could be counted on to do the right things in the top 6 he might get an invite but every time he is on Team Canada he under performs and doesn't meet expectations.  Losing is just a result of that and in all honesty it's pretty easy to not invite Spezza to this camp, he has no chance of making it like a lot of other people have said before and were just called "haters".

    I think he at least deserves an invite. He's a point a game player. Not sure how well he'd fair on international ice considering he's not the most elusive or fastest of skaters but still, the guy was top five in league scoring two years ago and was on pace for 1 ppg last season (albeit small sample size).

    I see this as a snubbing for sure, although somewhat warranted. Still, an invite and not making the team is much more of a compliment then being left out altogether.

    Seriously, who cares? It's about the last thing actual scouts look at when evaluating a player especially ones in the NHL. There are no secrets. I'm sure Spezza could put up a PPG in the Olympics too, 6 points against Norway, 1 against Slovakia, and none against Sweden, Finland, US, and Russia while being -10 in those games combined. I'm not saying that's how it actually is or Spezza is only good against bad teams but the history for him is there, big games Spezza shuts it down or gets shut down and it's been like that since junior. He doesn't have another level to go to. Spezza in game 30 of the regular season is the same player as game 7 in the 3rd round, that might change as we go on but as of yet that is exactly what history tells you will happen. Canada doesn't need that and they have other players who are just as good if not better and they are younger than him who they trust more.

    Spezza doesn't deserve to be anywhere near that team for a lot of reasons and the only people surprised by this are Sens fans and even then, it's like 50/50. Spezza isn't a good enough hockey player to be a center on team Canada, not versatile enough to be able to play the wing, and not trustworthy or gritty enough to be on the bottom 6 anywhere. He's a #1 center and that's it, he can't be a #3 or 4 and he can't be a winger so why would you even think about taking him? Certainly not to get a look for the future, that's why he was considered when he was 21, 22 in 2006 as well just like a lot of other players are getting that look now like Benn and Duchene.

    Spezza being an idiot between the ages of 22-27 on and off the ice cost him. There are no secrets in the hockey world.

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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by sandysensfan on Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:54 pm

    NEELY wrote:Point being is they look for guys that can take their game to the next level and Spezza has never proven to be able to do that.  If he could be counted on to do the right things in the top 6 he might get an invite but every time he is on Team Canada he under performs and doesn't meet expectations.  Losing is just a result of that and in all honesty it's pretty easy to not invite Spezza to this camp, he has no chance of making it like a lot of other people have said before and were just called "haters".

    Explain why Phaneuf is invited.

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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by sandysensfan on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:00 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    NEELY wrote:Point being is they look for guys that can take their game to the next level and Spezza has never proven to be able to do that.  If he could be counted on to do the right things in the top 6 he might get an invite but every time he is on Team Canada he under performs and doesn't meet expectations.  Losing is just a result of that and in all honesty it's pretty easy to not invite Spezza to this camp, he has no chance of making it like a lot of other people have said before and were just called "haters".

    I think he at least deserves an invite. He's a point a game player. Not sure how well he'd fair on international ice considering he's not the most elusive or fastest of skaters but still, the guy was top five in league scoring two years ago and was on pace for 1 ppg last season (albeit small sample size).

    I see this as a snubbing for sure, although somewhat warranted. Still, an invite and not making the team is much more of a compliment then being left out altogether.

    Spezza is the 7th highest in points of all Cdn players since the last lockout (2004) and is 3rd best in points per game behind only Crosby and Thornton...

    So he is not chump change.

    If Phaneuf got invited.. then why not Spezz...
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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:06 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    NEELY wrote:Point being is they look for guys that can take their game to the next level and Spezza has never proven to be able to do that.  If he could be counted on to do the right things in the top 6 he might get an invite but every time he is on Team Canada he under performs and doesn't meet expectations.  Losing is just a result of that and in all honesty it's pretty easy to not invite Spezza to this camp, he has no chance of making it like a lot of other people have said before and were just called "haters".

    I think he at least deserves an invite. He's a point a game player. Not sure how well he'd fair on international ice considering he's not the most elusive or fastest of skaters but still, the guy was top five in league scoring two years ago and was on pace for 1 ppg last season (albeit small sample size).

    I see this as a snubbing for sure, although somewhat warranted. Still, an invite and not making the team is much more of a compliment then being left out altogether.

    Seriously, who cares?  It's about the last thing actual scouts look at when evaluating a player especially ones in the NHL.  There are no secrets.  I'm sure Spezza could put up a PPG in the Olympics too, 6 points against Norway, 1 against Slovakia, and none against Sweden, Finland, US, and Russia while being -10 in those games combined.  I'm not saying that's how it actually is or Spezza is only good against bad teams but the history for him is there, big games Spezza shuts it down or gets shut down and it's been like that since junior.  He doesn't have another level to go to.  Spezza in game 30 of the regular season is the same player as game 7 in the 3rd round, that might change as we go on but as of yet that is exactly what history tells you will happen.  Canada doesn't need that and they have other players who are just as good if not better and they are younger than him who they trust more.

    Spezza doesn't deserve to be anywhere near that team for a lot of reasons and the only people surprised by this are Sens fans and even then, it's like 50/50.  Spezza isn't a good enough hockey player to be a center on team Canada, not versatile enough to be able to play the wing, and not trustworthy or gritty enough to be on the bottom 6 anywhere.  He's a #1 center and that's it, he can't be a #3 or 4 and he can't be a winger so why would you even think about taking him?  Certainly not to get a look for the future, that's why he was considered when he was 21, 22 in 2006 as well just like a lot of other players are getting that look now like Benn and Duchene.

    Spezza being an idiot between the ages of 22-27 on and off the ice cost him.  There are no secrets in the hockey world.

    Literally nothing else needs to be said on this subject after that right there -- 100% bang on. If you don't get it by now, you never will.
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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:20 pm

    The bottom line is Spezza has not won anything ever with Team Canada (ok Spengler but wtv) and he doesn't have any chemistry with any of the invited players.
    He's a waste of their time and I'm glad he is, as an "IDGAF about Olympics" myself.
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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:27 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    NEELY wrote:Point being is they look for guys that can take their game to the next level and Spezza has never proven to be able to do that.  If he could be counted on to do the right things in the top 6 he might get an invite but every time he is on Team Canada he under performs and doesn't meet expectations.  Losing is just a result of that and in all honesty it's pretty easy to not invite Spezza to this camp, he has no chance of making it like a lot of other people have said before and were just called "haters".

    I think he at least deserves an invite. He's a point a game player. Not sure how well he'd fair on international ice considering he's not the most elusive or fastest of skaters but still, the guy was top five in league scoring two years ago and was on pace for 1 ppg last season (albeit small sample size).

    I see this as a snubbing for sure, although somewhat warranted. Still, an invite and not making the team is much more of a compliment then being left out altogether.

    Seriously, who cares?  It's about the last thing actual scouts look at when evaluating a player especially ones in the NHL.  There are no secrets.  I'm sure Spezza could put up a PPG in the Olympics too, 6 points against Norway, 1 against Slovakia, and none against Sweden, Finland, US, and Russia while being -10 in those games combined.  I'm not saying that's how it actually is or Spezza is only good against bad teams but the history for him is there, big games Spezza shuts it down or gets shut down and it's been like that since junior.  He doesn't have another level to go to.  Spezza in game 30 of the regular season is the same player as game 7 in the 3rd round, that might change as we go on but as of yet that is exactly what history tells you will happen.  Canada doesn't need that and they have other players who are just as good if not better and they are younger than him who they trust more.

    Spezza doesn't deserve to be anywhere near that team for a lot of reasons and the only people surprised by this are Sens fans and even then, it's like 50/50.  Spezza isn't a good enough hockey player to be a center on team Canada, not versatile enough to be able to play the wing, and not trustworthy or gritty enough to be on the bottom 6 anywhere.  He's a #1 center and that's it, he can't be a #3 or 4 and he can't be a winger so why would you even think about taking him?  Certainly not to get a look for the future, that's why he was considered when he was 21, 22 in 2006 as well just like a lot of other players are getting that look now like Benn and Duchene.

    Spezza being an idiot between the ages of 22-27 on and off the ice cost him.  There are no secrets in the hockey world.

    Literally nothing else needs to be said on this subject after that right there -- 100% bang on. If you don't get it by now, you never will.

    I thought Benn wasn't invited either?
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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by wprager on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:03 pm

    sandysensfan wrote:
    NEELY wrote:Point being is they look for guys that can take their game to the next level and Spezza has never proven to be able to do that.  If he could be counted on to do the right things in the top 6 he might get an invite but every time he is on Team Canada he under performs and doesn't meet expectations.  Losing is just a result of that and in all honesty it's pretty easy to not invite Spezza to this camp, he has no chance of making it like a lot of other people have said before and were just called "haters".

    Explain why Phaneuf is invited.

    Because he is a Double Monster.


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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by wprager on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:10 pm

    LeKing wrote:The bottom line is Spezza has not won anything ever with Team Canada (ok Spengler but wtv) and he doesn't have any chemistry with any of the invited players.
    He's a waste of their time and I'm glad he is, as an "IDGAF about Olympics" myself.

    There are lots of players who got invited who haven't won anything, either, nor do they have any chemistry. Spezza has played with some of these in his two World Cups and in the Spengler.

    Instant chemistry with Getzlaf/Perry and Stamkos/St. Louis. You won't be able to convince me that Kunitz is there for any other reason.


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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by wprager on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:12 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    I thought Benn wasn't invited either?

    Geez, what is it with you guys and counter-arguments? Why can't you just let them win this one on the merits of their blanket statements??!

    Spezza was an idiot between 22-27 but I'd bet Phaneuf has him beat in that department. Not sure about Benn. Maybe you need to be an idiot longer. I really don't know how this works.


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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:12 pm

    wprager wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    I thought Benn wasn't invited either?

    Geez, what is it with you guys and counter-arguments?  Why can't you just let them win this one on the merits of their blanket statements??!

    Spezza was an idiot between 22-27 but I'd bet Phaneuf has him beat in that department.  Not sure about Benn.  Maybe you need to be an idiot longer.  I really don't know how this works.

    You just don't have a clue on this one, sorry. Spezza is a top 2 centre, or he's nothing. He can't play wing, he can't play checking centre, and he has never, ever shown that he has what it takes to win. He's come a long way in terms of his development and no one is saying that he's not a #1C and a very good centre to boot, but among his competition for those 2 top C positions are Crosby, Toews, Stamkos, and Giroux, who he's never going to push out. Don't take it personally... And don't bother tallying up points because they just don't tell the whole story. He's never won anything substantial, he's never shown that extra gear, he's not versatile in the sense that he can move anywhere on a line or in a lineup, and he's earned a lost of mistrust in terms of how he handles himself in his own end. He's not on this list for all those reasons, and because he's not going to be a #1 or #2 centre on this team when he has to compete against Crosby and Toews -- two guys who have won a whole lot more and in less time, in the NHL and internationally, than Spezza ever has.
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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:46 pm

    wprager wrote:
    LeKing wrote:The bottom line is Spezza has not won anything ever with Team Canada (ok Spengler but wtv) and he doesn't have any chemistry with any of the invited players.
    He's a waste of their time and I'm glad he is, as an "IDGAF about Olympics" myself.

    There are lots of players who got invited who haven't won anything, either, nor do they have any chemistry.  Spezza has played with some of these in his two World Cups and in the Spengler.

    Instant chemistry with Getzlaf/Perry and Stamkos/St. Louis.  You won't be able to convince me that Kunitz is there for any other reason.  

    Chris Kunitz has been on Crosby's wing for 5 years now and that's the only reason he's there. Plus, he's not a center.

    Give me the list of the players who haven't won anything AND don't have any chemistry and we'll discuss it.

    Spezza doesn't bring anything to this team. Neely nailed it: he doesn't have another gear when it comes to higher competition.
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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by wprager on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:15 pm

    A monkey could have chemistry with Crosby. No excuse for Kunitz to be there. Other players more deserving. Who does Couture have chemistry with? He's never won anything.

    Why is Thornton there? He's slowed down, not nearly as physical as his nickname suggests, and Spezza is a better passer.

    If all those other players are so versatile that they could play wing, then by all means put them on wing, because Spezza is a better center than most of them.


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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:16 pm

    wprager wrote:A monkey could have chemistry with Crosby.   No excuse for Kunitz to be there.  Other players more deserving.   Who does Couture have chemistry with? He's never won anything.  

    Why is Thornton there?  He's slowed down, not nearly as physical as his nickname suggests, and Spezza is a better passer.  

    If all those other players are so versatile that they could play wing, then by all means put them on wing, because Spezza is a better center than most of them.  

    If you really want to compare apples to apples, "Jumbo" Joe is the guy. Spezza deserves to be there every bit as much as him and he's the better player right now.
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    Re: Team Canada 2014 -- who will be on it?

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:21 pm

    Logan Couture and Joe Thornton play together on one of the best lines in the NHL. Thornton is there because he won Gold last time and is still close to a PPG forward. I don't expect any of those 2 to be on the team anyway but they've proven more. Logan COuture is also on of the most complete forward in the NHL.
    Crosby
    Toews
    Getzlaf
    Bergeron

    Those 4 are the best centers in Canada for their respective roles and sorry, Spezza does not come close to being as complete as they are. Each one of them has more hardware than Spezza can only dream of. You already have guys like Giroux, Stamkos, Mike Richards etc who are centers and are forced to play wing. Who else do you want to convert?

    You can disagree all you want but the facts remain the same: TC doesn't believe Spezza is good enough to make the team and I agree with them.

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