GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Share

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:41 pm

    rooneypoo wrote:

    I've grown fond of Prager over the years but yah, this is appropriate.

    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48303
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:58 pm

    Say what you will, but overblown hyperbole is what you are known for. Most of us can sift through all that and find the actual message, but sometimes its just a bit over the top.

    The team is struggling scoring goals, especially since Ryan and Hoffman have cooled off (giant understatement there). Stone has certainly replaced some of that offense but let's not kid ourselves, they've been winning primarily because Hammond has been giving up 2 or fewer goals. When he gives up 3 they've struggled.

    If you can turn Cowen+Hoffman+ into a ROR, great! But I doubt that happens.

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:58 pm

    I also think I still have a concussion from the sky falling when Hemsky and Spezza up and left. So maybe this whole Ottawa Senators close to the season is just a figment of my imagination.

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:03 pm

    wprager wrote:Say what you will, but overblown hyperbole is what you are known for.  Most of us can sift through all that and find the actual message, but sometimes its just a bit over the top.  

    The team is struggling scoring goals, especially since Ryan and Hoffman have cooled off (giant understatement there).  Stone has certainly replaced some of that offense but let's not kid ourselves, they've been winning primarily because Hammond has been giving up 2 or fewer goals.  When he gives up 3 they've struggled.  

    If you can turn Cowen+Hoffman+ into a ROR, great!  But I doubt that happens.  

    You exaggerate to make a point, otherwise it gets missed. Hyperbole or not I make my points and most of the time it's pretty clear where I stand.

    The team is one of the better offensive teams in the NHL with or without Hoffman, they will be better when there is more depth and they are playing more in the other zone, a guy like ROR will help that.

    Speaking of ROR, he's going to be moved. The Avs simply can't afford him long term and fact is that team is a team that's broken in the room because ROR believes he is the rightful captain and they obviously gave it to Landeskog who is the captain. That's the split in that room and they won't be doing anything as a team any time soon until that's resolved.

    Hoffman + Cowen is a nice start but you need to add a high pick or a really good prospect.

    Paul, Hoffman, Cowen for ROR... that could actually work or at worst a strong base for any deal.

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:07 pm

    Kind hearted Richard thank you.
    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48303
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:07 pm

    NEELY wrote:I also think I still have a concussion from the sky falling when Hemsky and Spezza up and left.  So maybe this whole Ottawa Senators close to the season is just a figment of my imagination.

    You really don't have to be a Richard.


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:08 pm

    wprager wrote:
    NEELY wrote:I also think I still have a concussion from the sky falling when Hemsky and Spezza up and left.  So maybe this whole Ottawa Senators close to the season is just a figment of my imagination.

    You really don't have to be a Richard.

    That was a general comment directed at a large portion of the fan base. Especially the ones that organized the Spezza march lol. Ah man, that was a thing lol.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54631
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:28 pm

    In a round about way it was true that Turris struggled without Spezza. Until Zibanejad and then Pageau started to contribute, Turris was lost on an island. We knew he was capable, but he was being keyed on and wasn't producing and that's one of the big things that's gonna cost us the playoffs I think.

    I think a lot of it also has to do with unrealistic expectations of Legwand. I thought he'd be able to pick up some of the slack when Z or Turris went cold, but it wasn't to be.

    Now...ask me if I'd have liked to have Spezza back lol. If there was one move that needed to be done in the last decade, that was it. We needed to take a new direction so badly and we got one, so make the playoffs or not, I'm not gonna complain.

    That's another reason why I'm not hopping up and down to defend Hoffman right now. We need to see how he performs next year with a summer to work on himself and his game. If he's indeed going to be totally one dimensional, then it's a risk, but we might have to trade him, but if he shows the determination that he showed when that line was killing it and backchecks and steals pucks, then he'll become very useful. So no knee jerk decisions, 2 years, 3 mil a year or whatever and see where he's at and where we're at.

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:42 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:In a round about way it was true that Turris struggled without Spezza.  Until Zibanejad and then Pageau started to contribute, Turris was lost on an island.  We knew he was capable, but he was being keyed on and wasn't producing and that's one of the big things that's gonna cost us the playoffs I think.

    I think a lot of it also has to do with unrealistic expectations of Legwand.  I thought he'd be able to pick up some of the slack when Z or Turris went cold, but it wasn't to be.

    Now...ask me if I'd have liked to have Spezza back lol.  If there was one move that needed to be done in the last decade, that was it.  We needed to take a new direction so badly and we got one, so make the playoffs or not, I'm not gonna complain.

    That's another reason why I'm not hopping up and down to defend Hoffman right now.  We need to see how he performs next year with a summer to work on himself and his game.  If he's indeed going to be totally one dimensional, then it's a risk, but we might have to trade him, but if he shows the determination that he showed when that line was killing it and backchecks and steals pucks, then he'll become very useful.  So no knee jerk decisions, 2 years, 3 mil a year or whatever and see where he's at and where we're at.

    All that tells me is it takes a team to win, of course you need other guys to step up, that's the whole problem with have a #1 center without any depth and options around him.

    Spezza took up so much air in the room, media, and everything else that no one could see the trees because they were so deep in the woods. He was the "man" in Ottawa and it was pathetic because he couldn't do the job that Karlsson is doing now... leading by example and talking when he needs to talk, nothing more nothing less. Spezza was a sound bite each night and every time he talked I just said "the guy doesn't get it".

    Turris has support around him, guys who know how to play the game in todays NHL and coaches that expect and in return get a 200 foot, 4 line game. It was never rocket science but people have their favorites and have their highlight reels and it's really cute that 8 year olds love the flash and dash but it doesn't win cups.

    avatar
    Vandelay
    Sophomore
    Sophomore

    Number of posts : 769
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-11-07

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Vandelay on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:42 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    wprager wrote:Say what you will, but overblown hyperbole is what you are known for.  Most of us can sift through all that and find the actual message, but sometimes its just a bit over the top.  

    The team is struggling scoring goals, especially since Ryan and Hoffman have cooled off (giant understatement there).  Stone has certainly replaced some of that offense but let's not kid ourselves, they've been winning primarily because Hammond has been giving up 2 or fewer goals.  When he gives up 3 they've struggled.  

    If you can turn Cowen+Hoffman+ into a ROR, great!  But I doubt that happens.  

    You exaggerate to make a point, otherwise it gets missed.  Hyperbole or not I make my points and most of the time it's pretty clear where I stand.  

    The team is one of the better offensive teams in the NHL with or without Hoffman, they will be better when there is more depth and they are playing more in the other zone, a guy like ROR will help that.

    Speaking of ROR, he's going to be moved.  The Avs simply can't afford him long term and fact is that team is a team that's broken in the room because ROR believes he is the rightful captain and they obviously gave it to Landeskog who is the captain.  That's the split in that room and they won't be doing anything as a team any time soon until that's resolved.


    Hoffman + Cowen is a nice start but you need to add a high pick or a really good prospect.  

    Paul, Hoffman, Cowen for ROR... that could actually work or at worst a strong base for any deal.

    Is this insider info? I've actually heard someone contrary info. I know for fact that Duchene and ROR don't really get along because Duchene is very straight edge in terms of his commitment to the game (extremely disciplined off-ice) whereas ROR (although by no means a crazy party animal) is not nearly as much so.

    That said, I still love the idea of getting ROR. Having both ROR and Stone in your top six is a dream. With Ryan's development this year, you've got a top 6 that plays exceptional 200 ft game

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:48 pm

    ROR for sure wanted the "C".  They gave it to a kid they drafted the year before and was still a teenager.  That's why his contract demands were insane but Calgary stuck their nose into that business and now here we are. That was the contract dispute, not the $$$. He wanted out, he thought Calgary was an option and Colorado wouldn't match but yah...

    I have also heard that he and Duchene don't get along, not sure the reasons behind it.  Either way ROR is going to move and probably to an Eastern team, Ottawa has both the pieces and cap space to get it done as well not to mention he could be the missing piece on a cup team.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54631
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:59 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:In a round about way it was true that Turris struggled without Spezza.  Until Zibanejad and then Pageau started to contribute, Turris was lost on an island.  We knew he was capable, but he was being keyed on and wasn't producing and that's one of the big things that's gonna cost us the playoffs I think.

    I think a lot of it also has to do with unrealistic expectations of Legwand.  I thought he'd be able to pick up some of the slack when Z or Turris went cold, but it wasn't to be.

    Now...ask me if I'd have liked to have Spezza back lol.  If there was one move that needed to be done in the last decade, that was it.  We needed to take a new direction so badly and we got one, so make the playoffs or not, I'm not gonna complain.

    That's another reason why I'm not hopping up and down to defend Hoffman right now.  We need to see how he performs next year with a summer to work on himself and his game.  If he's indeed going to be totally one dimensional, then it's a risk, but we might have to trade him, but if he shows the determination that he showed when that line was killing it and backchecks and steals pucks, then he'll become very useful.  So no knee jerk decisions, 2 years, 3 mil a year or whatever and see where he's at and where we're at.

    All that tells me is it takes a team to win, of course you need other guys to step up, that's the whole problem with have a #1 center without any depth and options around him.  

    Spezza took up so much air in the room, media, and everything else that no one could see the trees because they were so deep in the woods.  He was the "man" in Ottawa and it was pathetic because he couldn't do the job that Karlsson is doing now... leading by example and talking when he needs to talk, nothing more nothing less.  Spezza was a sound bite each night and every time he talked I just said "the guy doesn't get it".

    Turris has support around him, guys who know how to play the game in todays NHL and coaches that expect and in return get a 200 foot, 4 line game.  It was never rocket science but people have their favorites and have their highlight reels and it's really cute that 8 year olds love the flash and dash but it doesn't win cups.


    No, I know, it's not that, it's back to the original point that Turris would struggle when Spezza left - and it was true. He got buried. However...he's probably a better player for it and now he knows what he has to do to work through some of those cold streaks when others aren't contributing and he's being keyed on.

    Also, people outside of Ottawa probably couldn't begin to understand what Pageau did for this team as well as Zibanejad suddenly starting to figure it out, but that falls in line with the 'team game' and the depth we all wanted for so long.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54631
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:00 pm

    Vandelay wrote:
    That said, I still love the idea of getting ROR.  Having both ROR and Stone in your top six is a dream.  With Ryan's development this year, you've got a top 6 that plays exceptional 200 ft game

    Seriously, can you imagine Stone and ROR in the top six of this team? Or on the same line? Laugh1 It almost wouldn't be fair.

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:03 pm

    People thought Turris would struggle without Spezza, period. People didn't believe in the guy because Spezza was just so much better than him and he was barely worthy of skating on the same ice as him.

    I remember last year when I was trying to get people to latch onto the fact Turris was a better hockey player than Spezza. I was basically laughed and was told I just hate Spezza (kind of true) or Turris was seeing second rate competition or Turris just had better line mates, etc, etc, etc.

    Turris has always been a legit player from the Rundblad trade where I once again was ripped apart because I loved the deal. He's a very, very good hockey player, plays the game the right way, and despite being a little small weight wise he competes each game and plays the new style NHL game.

    Ottawa has their #1 center, maybe 2 #1's if Zibanejad can find some consistency. Turris is exactly what the Sens needs for the last 20 years, not that poser Spezza. That's what he was along with his die hard fans.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54631
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:27 pm

    It's not even that, it's the fact that Spezza was a bonafide top level producing C at the NHL level and thus insulated Turris while he developed. Towards the end, I don't know of many people in Ottawa who stood by Spezza. Spezza was the antithesis of what we wanted here, it was obvious.

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:46 pm

    Spezza played with 2 players that were better than him the first part of his career, had a history of never showing up for big games, and was a "me first" type player where everything was about him, team second.  Unless you are talking about his "boys" all of whom are basically out of the league before or around the age of 30.  

    Remember 6, 7 years ago when I was saying these things?  Yah, takes a while for it to play out but it played out pretty much how I thought it would and stated it would.

    Schubert, Meszaros, Emery, Heatley, McGratton, and Spezza.  It was cancer and it took basically 8 years to get rid of it.

    Either way, teams didn't focus in on Spezza, they never did.  They always let him do his things because the better teams always knew it wasn't if, it was when Spezza screws up, that's why he never showed up in big games because the bottom feeders never play in big games.  

    Turris, complete opposite from the day he got here.  Turris is on the level of Alfie so far in terms of guys who play big when it matters.  2 PO OT goals, never played a bad game in a playoff series, always produces.  

    The people who stood by Spezza last year were complete morons when they say "yah it's time to move on because he's better than the organization" and crap like that.  

    Spezza was never as good as people would have led you to believe, Ottawa and it's fans have a superiority complex and truly believed Spezza was their star... Spezza was never a star.  He was an underachiever who has some really good years playing with 2 guys that would have been the best player on any line in the NHL in that time period.  Spezza was a passenger and always was.  Story of his life.  

    He's fit in nicely in Dallas... no one cares.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54631
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:58 pm

    Now no one cares, back when it was the three headed monster, I respectfully disagree. Spezza, Heatley and Alfie were the gods of the East at the very least and it takes a powerful C to make it happen.

    What Spezza missed and it got glossed over, was that extra gear. The one that you shift to when the game's on the line. Alfie had it, Heatley didn't really have it either and Spezza really didn't have it.

    I thought maybe he was about the shed that label in 2007 because he was very, very good in the playoffs - and again, I thought he was about to shake it when MacLean took over, but the guy reverts back to loser mode. I don't get it personally.

    I guess a leopard doesn't change his spots.

    NEELY
    Mod
    Mod

    Number of posts : 20732
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-02-24

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:03 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:Now no one cares, back when it was the three headed monster, I respectfully disagree.  Spezza, Heatley and Alfie were the gods of the East at the very least and it takes a powerful C to make it happen.

    What Spezza missed and it got glossed over, was that extra gear.  The one that you shift to when the game's on the line.  Alfie had it, Heatley didn't really have it either and Spezza really didn't have it.

    I thought maybe he was about the shed that label in 2007 because he was very, very good in the playoffs - and again, I thought he was about to shake it when MacLean took over, but the guy reverts back to loser mode.  I don't get it personally.

    I guess a leopard doesn't change his spots.

    Yah, Morrison in Vancouver was a beast. (sarcasm) the gods of the West if you will were Bertuzzi, Morrison, and Naslund. All-star center is complete BS. Put Ribeiro there and he puts up the same numbers. You don't need a great center when you have the two best wingers in the game. Hell, Kelly was put there for a month or two and was nearly a PPG in that time. Spezza was such a fraud here in Ottawa it was unbelievable. I mean that too, it was all smoke and mirrors and to this day people still but the crap.

    The more the organization leaned on Spezza the worse off they were. The only guy holding it together was Alfie who lead by example and couldn't be questioned.

    It still amazes me people believe Spezza was some elite talent. I wonder what things would have been like for him if he didn't land on the best team in the NHL as a 2nd overall draft pick? IMO... you can look at RNH over in Edmonton and that's exactly what Spezza would have been his first 3 years along with his team... a laughing stock.



    Sponsored content

    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:16 am