GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

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    NEELY
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:46 pm

    Spezza played with 2 players that were better than him the first part of his career, had a history of never showing up for big games, and was a "me first" type player where everything was about him, team second.  Unless you are talking about his "boys" all of whom are basically out of the league before or around the age of 30.  

    Remember 6, 7 years ago when I was saying these things?  Yah, takes a while for it to play out but it played out pretty much how I thought it would and stated it would.

    Schubert, Meszaros, Emery, Heatley, McGratton, and Spezza.  It was cancer and it took basically 8 years to get rid of it.

    Either way, teams didn't focus in on Spezza, they never did.  They always let him do his things because the better teams always knew it wasn't if, it was when Spezza screws up, that's why he never showed up in big games because the bottom feeders never play in big games.  

    Turris, complete opposite from the day he got here.  Turris is on the level of Alfie so far in terms of guys who play big when it matters.  2 PO OT goals, never played a bad game in a playoff series, always produces.  

    The people who stood by Spezza last year were complete morons when they say "yah it's time to move on because he's better than the organization" and crap like that.  

    Spezza was never as good as people would have led you to believe, Ottawa and it's fans have a superiority complex and truly believed Spezza was their star... Spezza was never a star.  He was an underachiever who has some really good years playing with 2 guys that would have been the best player on any line in the NHL in that time period.  Spezza was a passenger and always was.  Story of his life.  

    He's fit in nicely in Dallas... no one cares.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:58 pm

    Now no one cares, back when it was the three headed monster, I respectfully disagree. Spezza, Heatley and Alfie were the gods of the East at the very least and it takes a powerful C to make it happen.

    What Spezza missed and it got glossed over, was that extra gear. The one that you shift to when the game's on the line. Alfie had it, Heatley didn't really have it either and Spezza really didn't have it.

    I thought maybe he was about the shed that label in 2007 because he was very, very good in the playoffs - and again, I thought he was about to shake it when MacLean took over, but the guy reverts back to loser mode. I don't get it personally.

    I guess a leopard doesn't change his spots.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:03 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:Now no one cares, back when it was the three headed monster, I respectfully disagree.  Spezza, Heatley and Alfie were the gods of the East at the very least and it takes a powerful C to make it happen.

    What Spezza missed and it got glossed over, was that extra gear.  The one that you shift to when the game's on the line.  Alfie had it, Heatley didn't really have it either and Spezza really didn't have it.

    I thought maybe he was about the shed that label in 2007 because he was very, very good in the playoffs - and again, I thought he was about to shake it when MacLean took over, but the guy reverts back to loser mode.  I don't get it personally.

    I guess a leopard doesn't change his spots.

    Yah, Morrison in Vancouver was a beast. (sarcasm) the gods of the West if you will were Bertuzzi, Morrison, and Naslund. All-star center is complete BS. Put Ribeiro there and he puts up the same numbers. You don't need a great center when you have the two best wingers in the game. Hell, Kelly was put there for a month or two and was nearly a PPG in that time. Spezza was such a fraud here in Ottawa it was unbelievable. I mean that too, it was all smoke and mirrors and to this day people still but the crap.

    The more the organization leaned on Spezza the worse off they were. The only guy holding it together was Alfie who lead by example and couldn't be questioned.

    It still amazes me people believe Spezza was some elite talent. I wonder what things would have been like for him if he didn't land on the best team in the NHL as a 2nd overall draft pick? IMO... you can look at RNH over in Edmonton and that's exactly what Spezza would have been his first 3 years along with his team... a laughing stock.


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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:34 pm

    Your hatred towards Spezza blinds you to the unbelievable natural talent he possessed (past tense). I mean, I don't care, go nuts, but there was a time when Spezza's talent was on par with any C out there, it's the other stuff that kept him from being great.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Vandelay on Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:49 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:Your hatred towards Spezza blinds you to the unbelievable natural talent he possessed (past tense).  I mean, I don't care, go nuts, but there was a time when Spezza's talent was on par with any C out there, it's the other stuff that kept him from being great.

    Ya I agree with this. He was offensively gifted. I don't see how that can be denied. I also agree with what you said above- he showed at times he could elevate but he could never sustain it. He was and never will be a a leader because he has never shown the ability to show up game in, game out.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:16 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    NEELY wrote:I also think I still have a concussion from the sky falling when Hemsky and Spezza up and left.  So maybe this whole Ottawa Senators close to the season is just a figment of my imagination.

    You really don't have to be a Richard.

    That was a general comment directed at a large portion of the fan base.  Especially the ones that organized the Spezza march lol.  Ah man, that was a thing lol.

    I know that was beyond ridiculous, but I still have to give them props for putting their necks out for what they believed in. Misguided, but those are true fans. Also, it's the same group (RSU) that's organized the Sens Fan Zone, isn't it? Let's you get tickets for a more than decent price in a section where you're going to be surrounded by like-minded Sens fans. And they very much encourage you to be loud. That's a good thing they did (and next year they are getting a slightly better section, too).


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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:18 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:In a round about way it was true that Turris struggled without Spezza.  Until Zibanejad and then Pageau started to contribute, Turris was lost on an island.  We knew he was capable, but he was being keyed on and wasn't producing and that's one of the big things that's gonna cost us the playoffs I think.

    I think a lot of it also has to do with unrealistic expectations of Legwand.  I thought he'd be able to pick up some of the slack when Z or Turris went cold, but it wasn't to be.

    Now...ask me if I'd have liked to have Spezza back lol.  If there was one move that needed to be done in the last decade, that was it.  We needed to take a new direction so badly and we got one, so make the playoffs or not, I'm not gonna complain.

    That's another reason why I'm not hopping up and down to defend Hoffman right now.  We need to see how he performs next year with a summer to work on himself and his game.  If he's indeed going to be totally one dimensional, then it's a risk, but we might have to trade him, but if he shows the determination that he showed when that line was killing it and backchecks and steals pucks, then he'll become very useful.  So no knee jerk decisions, 2 years, 3 mil a year or whatever and see where he's at and where we're at.

    Didn't Turris start his turnaround when MacArthur got injured and Stone was installed on his wing full time?


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    NEELY
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:42 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:Your hatred towards Spezza blinds you to the unbelievable natural talent he possessed (past tense).  I mean, I don't care, go nuts, but there was a time when Spezza's talent was on par with any C out there, it's the other stuff that kept him from being great.

    Can't stand him as a hockey player and never have. Call it hate but I call it like I see it and he was exactly like what Jumbo Joe is... a talented played that under achieved his entire NHL career and in Spezza's case internationally as well.

    Remember what I wrote about Spezza and the Thornton parallels 5 years back? Only difference is Thornton made Cheechoo into a 56 goal scorer, Spezza turned Greening into a 17 goal scorer.

    Spezza was given a decade as a 2nd overall pick to win a cup on a team that was ready to win a cup and IMO from the very start he was the reason they didn't. From the time him, his agent, and his father were crying to Martin about not being able to play on a Cup favorite as a teen, from saying he's too good for the AHL, and just generally forcing a player that wasn't ready on a cup winning team ending up cost the team a cup at any point.

    This is the sum of everything right here in my opinion and the reason I hate Spezza as a player, he's the reason Ottawa never won a cup. Period. I believe this because of what people inside that room said, from Chara to Martin and guess what? I have been right about basically everything that should have happened with Spezza and what has happened to him and his dumb cronies.

    It took years to play out but it did.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:49 pm

    wprager wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    NEELY wrote:I also think I still have a concussion from the sky falling when Hemsky and Spezza up and left.  So maybe this whole Ottawa Senators close to the season is just a figment of my imagination.

    You really don't have to be a Richard.

    That was a general comment directed at a large portion of the fan base.  Especially the ones that organized the Spezza march lol.  Ah man, that was a thing lol.

    I know that was beyond ridiculous, but I still have to give them props for putting their necks out for what they believed in.  Misguided, but those are true fans.  Also, it's the same group (RSU) that's organized the Sens Fan Zone, isn't it?  Let's you get tickets for a more than decent price in a section where you're going to be surrounded by like-minded Sens fans.  And they very much encourage you to be loud.  That's a good thing they did (and next year they are getting a slightly better section, too).

    True Sens fans... for sure. Hockey fans? Nope. I value the game more than I value the Sens and I can see outside obvious bias for the Sens because I believe I know enough about the game at all levels to understand what works, what doesn't, and what needs to be done.

    Look at my name... Cam Neely has nothing to do with the Sens and never will but he's the exact type of player I wish I could have been, the leader I wish any player in Ottawa could ever be (Alfie was and I believe Karlsson will be), and played the game the right way every single time out.

    Funny thing is you look at those 3 players I mentioned and none of those 3 play the game anything like the other. They all play the game the right way though in their own way.

    I obviously don't have a skill bias because I love it, I obviously don't have a tough guy bias, and I obviously don't have a F vs D bias other than how you build a team from the ground up. It's about the player and character in every single generation of hockey and that will never, ever change.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:34 am

    wprager wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:In a round about way it was true that Turris struggled without Spezza.  Until Zibanejad and then Pageau started to contribute, Turris was lost on an island.  We knew he was capable, but he was being keyed on and wasn't producing and that's one of the big things that's gonna cost us the playoffs I think.

    I think a lot of it also has to do with unrealistic expectations of Legwand.  I thought he'd be able to pick up some of the slack when Z or Turris went cold, but it wasn't to be.

    Now...ask me if I'd have liked to have Spezza back lol.  If there was one move that needed to be done in the last decade, that was it.  We needed to take a new direction so badly and we got one, so make the playoffs or not, I'm not gonna complain.

    That's another reason why I'm not hopping up and down to defend Hoffman right now.  We need to see how he performs next year with a summer to work on himself and his game.  If he's indeed going to be totally one dimensional, then it's a risk, but we might have to trade him, but if he shows the determination that he showed when that line was killing it and backchecks and steals pucks, then he'll become very useful.  So no knee jerk decisions, 2 years, 3 mil a year or whatever and see where he's at and where we're at.

    Didn't Turris start his turnaround when MacArthur got injured and Stone was installed on his wing full time?

    There's probably always more than one factor, but I recall it coming together when Zibanejad's line started clicking.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:59 pm

    Oh, by the way:



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