GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

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    Flo The Action
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:36 am

    Come draft Chiasson and our two 2nd rounders might be out in a trade with prince. Pumpel takes his place on the team.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:42 am

    Flo The Action wrote:I can agree with most f what's said but I wonder if moving hoffman is a good move. I would wait till after arbitration personally. If you are not satisfied with what happened you move him in a right deal. He's been nothing but cooperative in the past, he's ideal for a very productive 3rd line centred by Lazar eventually and can easily jump into the top 6 if need be. Chiasson is the piece that might get moved in a package if you ask me.

    As for Hammond a 1 year one way deal will be enough to retain him and see if lightning strikes twice.

    The 3rd line needs to be solid all 200 feet, Hoffman isn't. Hoffman isn't a player I like for this team going forward simply because there are 11 other guys pulling one way and Hoffman is pulling the other in terms of how they play the game up front. I said the same things about Spezza and the team has turned it around in part because Spezza isn't in Ottawa. I feel the same about Hoffman, a lot of flash but very little substance.

    The Sens need another forward and again I will use ROR as the example because he's actually obtainable. I'll take around the same production (which is what guys are paid on) with ROR vs Hoffman and take the ability to play 200 feet and play center and wing equally effectively if not close to.

    If you can package a 2016 1st, Cowen, Hoffman, and maybe a prospect like Price for a guy like ROR you just do it. The Sens don't need a 2016 1st rounder if they are picking in the top 15 in this draft along with Nick Paul, they have enough guys that can come in and play important roles right away.

    At the end of the day Hoffman is fairly replaceable, they have been winning a lot of games (most) without him scoring and that's because the other 11 guys are playing the right way.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:44 am

    Flo The Action wrote:Come draft Chiasson and our two 2nd rounders might be out in a trade with prince. Pumpel takes his place on the team.

    I don't think they give up on a PF like Chaisson who is coming along without a better option in the lineup. I've been happy with Chaisson for the most part, he's been playing hard and going to the net, he will get more comfortable and he grows into his role.

    I would trade him in a package for a guy like Kassian though.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:52 am

    NEELY wrote:Stone should be ROTY if they make the playoffs, Karlsson should win the Norris, and Cameron should be nominated for the JA.  If they don't make the playoffs I don't think any of them should be on the ballet.

    I agree with Wideman being that guy to play on the 3rd pairing, he's ready for a shot and worst case if he doesn't work out next year you have the depth in the organization where someone else can play or you use an asset to get a puck mover mid-season.  Wideman deserves to show he can't play in the NHL because he's shown he does deserve a shot.  

    It sucks this could be a very long summer without the playoffs though.

    Not sure if you realize this, but Stone is just 2 points back of Forsberg and Gaudreau -- he's 2 goals back of Forsberg and 2 assists back of Gaudreau. And he's played 77 game versus 79 for Forsberg and 78 for Gaudreau. Also, he's now outright leading the league in takeaways (1 ahead of Tavares with 2 fewer games played). He also tops the rookies in +/- (tied with Hoffman at +16, one ahead of Forsberg).

    Before we all said how the defensive side of the game is much more difficult for rookies but we also conceded that the people voting care more about offensive production. Well, guess what, he's right up there, now.


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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:53 am

    The one thing I think Flo might be overlooking as well is Nick Paul. If they want him to come in and play LW out of camp (which is a possibility) and he earns a spot then Hoffman could be replaced by a guy with a lot more size and pedigree then himself.

    Nick Paul is a real wild card which will allow the Sens to take a chance on a trade they may not normally take. That is when the Spezza trade will pay dividends besides the obvious addition by subtraction this season.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:54 am

    wprager wrote:
    NEELY wrote:Stone should be ROTY if they make the playoffs, Karlsson should win the Norris, and Cameron should be nominated for the JA.  If they don't make the playoffs I don't think any of them should be on the ballet.

    I agree with Wideman being that guy to play on the 3rd pairing, he's ready for a shot and worst case if he doesn't work out next year you have the depth in the organization where someone else can play or you use an asset to get a puck mover mid-season.  Wideman deserves to show he can't play in the NHL because he's shown he does deserve a shot.  

    It sucks this could be a very long summer without the playoffs though.

    Not sure if you realize this, but Stone is just 2 points back of Forsberg and Gaudreau -- he's 2 goals back of Forsberg and 2 assists back of Gaudreau.  And he's played 77 game versus 79 for Forsberg and 78 for Gaudreau.  Also, he's now outright leading the league in takeaways (1 ahead of Tavares with 2 fewer games played).  He also tops the rookies in +/- (tied with Hoffman at +16, one ahead of Forsberg).

    Before we all said how the defensive side of the game is much more difficult for rookies but we also conceded that the people voting care more about offensive production. Well, guess what, he's right up there, now.  

    I'm just saying I think if the Sens miss out Ekblad will win because of the position he plays and if the Sens do make the playoffs it's basically on the back of Stone's 2nd half which will put him in the running and maybe win.

    Not saying he deserves it one way or another but I am saying how it will play out.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:57 am

    NEELY wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Come draft Chiasson and our two 2nd rounders might be out in a trade with prince. Pumpel takes his place on the team.

    I don't think they give up on a PF like Chaisson who is coming along without a better option in the lineup.  I've been happy with Chaisson for the most part, he's been playing hard and going to the net, he will get more comfortable and he grows into his role.  

    I would trade him in a package for a guy like Kassian though.  
    you have to part with something to get something. id rather it be someone who asent reached his potential and might never will than part ways with a guy like hoffman who might provide this kind of output year after year from the third line(or at least 20 goals) if we sell on hoffman i'd rather not add too much to him on a deal.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:58 am

    NEELY wrote:Yah, lots of things can happen between June and Sept as well so if Wikstrand somehow makes the team or a guy like Wideman just doesn't have it, then maybe sure.  I think they give Wistrand the year in Bingo and maybe even a little more just to get used to get used to NA ice because the difference is enormous which I don't think you are giving enough credit to.

    On a separate note like Tim said earlier, Hoffman on that 4 on 4 goal is really concerning.  He's a guy looking to get off the 4th line and he's playing that soft on top of a month of hockey that just hasn't been good for him.  He's 100% the player they should be selling high on, at worst signing to a 2 year deal worth around 2.5-3 mil.  Wouldn't give him a cent over that.  He's an extremely concerning player to me just because of the way he plays and seeing what Ottawa has had in the past.  

    I really hope he and Cowen are enough of a base to get a guy like ROR or Kassian out of their current organizations.  Hall is still a dream at best but you never know, Ottawa has a lot of what Edmonton needs.

    Anderson+Cowen+Hoffman for Hall? If we have to add more (e.g. Chiasson) then insist on moving a contract like Legwand.


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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:59 am

    Wideman might be the best option because ufas are so risky in this league. Trades might work, but I don't know who would trade a puck mover at this point.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Ev on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:01 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:Wideman might be the best option because ufas are so risky in this league.  Trades might work, but I don't know who would trade a puck mover at this point.

    Tj Brennan was the best d in the ahl and he's been traded like three times.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:01 pm

    You have to be patient with Hoffman, like you have to be patient with chiasson. The difference is, Hoffman has a disgusting shot and speed to burn. Rather have him than not, just no need to go long term right now.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:03 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Come draft Chiasson and our two 2nd rounders might be out in a trade with prince. Pumpel takes his place on the team.

    I don't think they give up on a PF like Chaisson who is coming along without a better option in the lineup.  I've been happy with Chaisson for the most part, he's been playing hard and going to the net, he will get more comfortable and he grows into his role.  

    I would trade him in a package for a guy like Kassian though.  
    you have to part with something to get something. id rather it be someone who asent reached his potential and might never will than part ways with a guy like hoffman who might provide this kind of output year after year from the third line(or at least 20 goals) if we sell on hoffman i'd rather not add too much to him on a deal.

    Sens have enough 20 goal guys, they need a difference maker and Hoffman is 100% the kind of player who is going to get shut down when the games get tougher and more important. You are seeing it now.

    Chaisson easily has 20 goal potential, so does Peumpel, so does Prince, and so does Paul. Pageau does as well, Lazar does as well, and the player they would land in a Hoffman deal would as well.

    As you can see I am saying Hoffman is about the most replaceable player up front that has played regularly this season.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:06 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:You have to be patient with Hoffman, like you have to be patient with chiasson.  The difference is, Hoffman has a disgusting shot and speed to burn.  Rather have him than not, just no need to go long term right now.  

    Who's going to bang home some rebounds and dirty goals? Chaisson will as he has shown he is willing to do the dirty things and he's getting more consistent.

    Hoffman will be 26 next year, he very well could have peaked this year and won't ever have a season where he approaches 30 goals. The Sens right now are heavy on skill up front and they have enough depth to replace what Hoffman brings right now.

    There's just too many holes in his game IMO for him to be a key cog on the Sens because they simply have players that are better and do more without the puck. They need that top 6 rock like Turris to round out the lineup or an improvement on Chaisson as the PF. IMO it's easier to let Chaisson develop into that PF than hope Hoffman somehow does something he's never done and that's play a hard, 200 foot game.

    It's the Spezza thing with Hoffman, not a player you win with. He's a player you do ok with.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Ev on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:08 pm

    You can win with Hoffman, he isn't spezza given he's not a #1 centre playing 20 minutes. You can win with an offesnive winger getting 2-3 line minutes.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:10 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Come draft Chiasson and our two 2nd rounders might be out in a trade with prince. Pumpel takes his place on the team.

    I don't think they give up on a PF like Chaisson who is coming along without a better option in the lineup.  I've been happy with Chaisson for the most part, he's been playing hard and going to the net, he will get more comfortable and he grows into his role.  

    I would trade him in a package for a guy like Kassian though.  
    you have to part with something to get something. id rather it be someone who asent reached his potential and might never will than part ways with a guy like hoffman who might provide this kind of output year after year from the third line(or at least 20 goals) if we sell on hoffman i'd rather not add too much to him on a deal.

    Sens have enough 20 goal guys, they need a difference maker and Hoffman is 100% the kind of player who is going to get shut down when the games get tougher and more important.  You are seeing it now.

    Chaisson easily has 20 goal potential, so does Peumpel, so does Prince, and so does Paul.  Pageau does as well, Lazar does as well, and the player they would land in a Hoffman deal would as well.

    As you can see I am saying Hoffman is about the most replaceable player up front that has played regularly this season.
    i dont know. the guy learns at a slower lever it seems but he always shines through in the end. might be playing injured for all we know. i think it's premature to give up on him after this year. yes we could be maximizing on his current value and thats a  risk for sure but it's a risk i'd like to take. if we are moving pieces i'd like it to be Anderson. possibly cowen but preferable not. I think it's a bit of a dream to think edmonton will trade hall. i dont see it happening. i'd look at what SJS can offfer up for Andersson. i'd also look at what chicago will do as they are cap strap and also LA.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:12 pm

    Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous. But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals. Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size. Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch -- only has he, really? Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season. Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL. Who knows what might happen. At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily? Since when? He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey. I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season. He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.


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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:13 pm

    Ev wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Wideman might be the best option because ufas are so risky in this league.  Trades might work, but I don't know who would trade a puck mover at this point.

    Tj Brennan was the best d in the ahl and he's been traded like three times.

    Yeah, it's a risk without seeing him. All I'm saying is ufa can be damaging.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Ev on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:15 pm

    wprager wrote:Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous.  But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals.  Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size.  Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch  -- only has he, really?  Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season.  Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL.  Who knows what might happen.  At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily?  Since when?  He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey.  I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season.  He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.

    Is Hoffman even close to being the leading goal scorer during this run? Once Hammond took over?

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