GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

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    wprager
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:12 pm

    Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous. But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals. Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size. Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch -- only has he, really? Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season. Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL. Who knows what might happen. At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily? Since when? He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey. I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season. He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:13 pm

    Ev wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Wideman might be the best option because ufas are so risky in this league.  Trades might work, but I don't know who would trade a puck mover at this point.

    Tj Brennan was the best d in the ahl and he's been traded like three times.

    Yeah, it's a risk without seeing him. All I'm saying is ufa can be damaging.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Ev on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:15 pm

    wprager wrote:Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous.  But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals.  Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size.  Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch  -- only has he, really?  Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season.  Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL.  Who knows what might happen.  At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily?  Since when?  He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey.  I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season.  He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.

    Is Hoffman even close to being the leading goal scorer during this run? Once Hammond took over?

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:15 pm

    Ev wrote:You can win with Hoffman, he isn't spezza given he's not a #1 centre playing 20 minutes. You can win with an offesnive winger getting 2-3 line minutes.

    Let me put it another way, he's a guy who is going to cost you in the playoffs whether it's because you didn't get the production you were expecting or because he doesn't change his game up based on the situation.

    The question then becomes how much of the cap do you commit to him and the terms? You also have to question what his worth is around the league and can you package him up to get a better player.

    I have no issues if he's around for a long time but there are tons of question marks around his game still and if you are not looking to capitalize on his season you are not doing your job.

    ROR is the example I will continue to bring up because it makes all the sense in the world.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:17 pm

    wprager wrote:Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous.  But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals.  Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size.  Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch  -- only has he, really?  Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season.  Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL.  Who knows what might happen.  At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily?  Since when?  He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey.  I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season.  He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.

    Hoffman scored a lot of goals when the pressure was off and the games (optics) didn't seem to matter. As the games got harder and more important he's kind of cooled off and hasn't done much of anything.

    Spezza lead the team in points forever but they were right to get rid of him and they are a better team today and for the next decade because of it. Like I said, numbers lie and stats are not facts.

    Depth, 23 guys all pulling the same way, and trust in all your players. That's what wins and I question whether Hoffman can fall into that.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:26 pm

    I think you can win with Hoffman, you need to continue to work with him because of that speed and shot.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:27 pm

    wprager wrote:Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous.  But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals.  Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size.  Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch  -- only has he, really?  Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season.  Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL.  Who knows what might happen.  At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily?  Since when?  He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey.  I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season.  He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.
    i think pageau can put up 20 on the third line for sure. but he has to be surrounded by quality wingers who have better developed. that's not Condra. ideally condra slides to the 4rth line.
    I have my doubts about Chiasson obviously as well but i'd be happy if we sit on him for a while. my focus personally switches to legwand, smith and neil. all good guys but guys we could do without next summer and apart from neil i have no clue how we might go about trading.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:30 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:I think you can win with Hoffman, you need to continue to work with him because of that speed and shot.

    That time and space that he needs to use his speed and shot are taken away when again the games get harder and more important.

    Also let me just qualify all this with I am saying you move Hoffman in a package for a better player like ROR (again just the example), you don't move him just because.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:37 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:I think you can win with Hoffman, you need to continue to work with him because of that speed and shot.

    That time and space that he needs to use his speed and shot are taken away when again the games get harder and more important.  

    Also let me just qualify all this with I am saying you move Hoffman in a package for a better player like ROR (again just the example), you don't move him just because.  
    also we got lucky with Bobby and kyle. im not sure i want to trade for ROR without an extention worked out. but yes sign me up if it is.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:40 pm

    Easy to sell winning... the Sens can sell it now. ROR and anyone else for that matter will resign on this current Sens team because they are clearly almost ready to compete for the Cup.

    The only question mark is in goal and that's because they have 3 guys who have given reason to believe they can be the guy. My take is known but you gotta go with Hammond and Lehner... the reason there is a goalie controversy every year it seems is because Anderson isn't good enough or reliable enough for there not to be.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:43 pm

    NEELY wrote:Easy to sell winning... the Sens can sell it now.  ROR and anyone else for that matter will resign on this current Sens team because they are clearly almost ready to compete for the Cup.

    The only question mark is in goal and that's because they have 3 guys who have given reason to believe they can be the guy.  My take is known but you gotta go with Hammond and Lehner... the reason there is a goalie controversy every year it seems is because Anderson isn't good enough or reliable enough for there not to be.

    i won't argue there. i'd have traded Andersson at the deadline for the right return. i've been pretty vocal about who i think is our goalie of the future.

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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:44 pm

    Ottawa has a lot of depth in goal, just not developed or experienced yet. Hogberg and Dreidger both have potential and O'Connor would change that dynamic as well. Might move Lehner if they sign O'Connor.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:52 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:I think you can win with Hoffman, you need to continue to work with him because of that speed and shot.

    That time and space that he needs to use his speed and shot are taken away when again the games get harder and more important.  

    Also let me just qualify all this with I am saying you move Hoffman in a package for a better player like ROR (again just the example), you don't move him just because.  

    I agree with what you said here, but also remember that hofan has developing to do on the pp where he would and should be a game changer going forward - even in the playoffs.

    Also think he can get away from some of the strain of the playoffs by using his speed. Still, he's no mark stone and if a no time offer came in for him you definitely think about it.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by rooneypoo on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:31 pm

    Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 25m25 minutes ago
    NHL is double-checking overhead camera to verify Methot shot in OT was wide and didn't go through the net as has been suggested.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:33 pm

    Looks like it just missed.
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:56 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    wprager wrote:Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous.  But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals.  Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size.  Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch  -- only has he, really?  Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season.  Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL.  Who knows what might happen.  At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily?  Since when?  He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey.  I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season.  He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.

    Hoffman scored a lot of goals when the pressure was off and the games (optics) didn't seem to matter.  As the games got harder and more important he's kind of cooled off and hasn't done much of anything.

    Spezza lead the team in points forever but they were right to get rid of him and they are a better team today and for the next decade because of it.  Like I said, numbers lie and stats are not facts.

    Depth, 23 guys all pulling the same way, and trust in all your players.  That's what wins and I question whether Hoffman can fall into that.

    I didn't want to draw this out but check the stats before you post, please.

    Hoffman has 4 GWG; Turris leads with 6, Stone and Ryan have 5. Don't forget the icetime Hoffman gets, though, compared to the others. Oh, and I'm pretty sure one of Turris' ENGs (he has a whopping *5*) ended up being a GWG.

    He's got one OT goal, tied for the team lead (and don't forget the icetime).

    He leads the team by a wide margin in ES goals -- a stat you've used as a measuring stick in the past. Much harder to score ES than PP, right? Well, maybe not on the Sens.

    He's heads and shoulders above everyone on the team in goals scored when tied, and second to Zibanejad in goals when down by 1 (4 vs. 5 for Ziba).

    He's not the cat's meow and I'm not pushing for building our offense around him, but he's not nearly as useless as you are stating. He *does* need linemates who will cover up his mistakes, of course, but then so do most players making under $8M.


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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by NEELY on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:56 pm

    wprager wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    wprager wrote:Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous.  But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals.  Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size.  Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch  -- only has he, really?  Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season.  Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL.  Who knows what might happen.  At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily?  Since when?  He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey.  I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season.  He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.

    Hoffman scored a lot of goals when the pressure was off and the games (optics) didn't seem to matter.  As the games got harder and more important he's kind of cooled off and hasn't done much of anything.

    Spezza lead the team in points forever but they were right to get rid of him and they are a better team today and for the next decade because of it.  Like I said, numbers lie and stats are not facts.

    Depth, 23 guys all pulling the same way, and trust in all your players.  That's what wins and I question whether Hoffman can fall into that.

    I didn't want to draw this out but check the stats before you post, please.

    Hoffman has 4 GWG;  Turris leads with 6, Stone and Ryan have 5.  Don't forget the icetime Hoffman gets, though, compared to the others.  Oh, and I'm pretty sure one of Turris' ENGs (he has a whopping *5*) ended up being a GWG.

    He's got one OT goal, tied for the team lead (and don't forget the icetime).  

    He leads the team by a wide margin in ES goals -- a stat you've used as a measuring stick in the past.  Much harder to score ES than PP, right?  Well, maybe not on the Sens.

    He's heads and shoulders above everyone on the team in goals scored when tied, and second to Zibanejad in goals when down by 1 (4 vs. 5 for Ziba).  

    He's not the cat's meow and I'm not pushing for building our offense around him, but he's not nearly as useless as you are stating.  He *does* need linemates who will cover up his mistakes, of course, but then so do most players making under $8M.

    How about I don't and I just stay correct?
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    Re: GDT: Sens @ Leafs - Sunday, Apr 5th, 7:30pm, City

    Post by wprager on Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:58 pm

    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:Saying your leading goal scorer is the most replaceable player up-front is pretty ridiculous.  But, whatever, I can see your point if I look past all the hyperbole.

    Sill, I think it's worth trying to fix his faults rather than expect Chiasson to somehow start scoring 20+ goals.  Peumpel has had a dozen games and 2 goals -- sorry, as much as I liked his game that's too small sample size.  Lazar has finally shown his scoring touch  -- only has he, really?  Lazar is likely in Bingo to start next season.  Why not try Hoffman with Pageau/Condra while Lazar is in the AHL.  Who knows what might happen.  At the very least his stock probably goes up as he could finish for the other two.

    P.S. Pageau scoring 20 easily?  Since when?  He's got 7 in 47 this year playing fantastic hockey.  I don't know if he can play better than he has or even keep it up for an 82 game season.  He's got 11 goals in 84 career games -- think it's a bit early to anoint him a 20-goal scorer.

    The future is bright but they aren't yet guaranteed the President's Trophy.

    Is Hoffman even close to being the leading goal scorer during this run? Once Hammond took over?

    Stone's been one of the biggest point producers in the *league* since January. So, no. But then as I wrote in the previous post, Hoffman has 4 game winners to Stone's 5, while getting less ice time. True, Stone is rising to the top when things are getting grittier, but without Hoffman's 4 GWG we are 10 points pack instead of just 2.


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